Raheem Morris discussion thread

[Tano]

I just watched the scoring drive against the Vikings and told you what they did. And it wasn't a some prevent dome.

As for this..

"If what you say is true then every team the Rams played with a decent QB could have carved them up every game with the same tactics the Vikings used on that drive."

It's the NFL.. teams can get hot on a drive.
Did you miss Seattle's first possession of the second half in the most recent game against them?

I think we can both agree that the Rams did not play as aggressively on that one drive. Although I have a problem with that, the biggest gripe was having Reeder in as the safety valve for screens. He shouldn't have even been in game at that point since they knew Minnesota probably wasn't going to do too many runs on that drive.

They should have had Hollins or Howard in the game on that drive instead of Reeder and maybe have Rapp closer to the line of scrimmage.

 

[Jacobarch]

I'll say the same thing I have in the past...
How do you know what he was upset about? How do you know they weren't in the right coverage, but someone missed their cue? Etc.. etc.. etc...

They had one bad drive and corrected. The defense played HUGE on short fields and got a turnover in the red zone.

Rams D was fine against the Pack.. good enough to win.
You give up 19 points on turnovers and you're not winning anything. Period.

Well I'll rebuttal that by saying a couple of things. You're talking about games in their entirety. I'm talking about how they play once they get the lead in the 4th. Take the Texans game for example. They pulled their starters, fine ok. Then they give up 21 unanswered points in the 4th quarter. That's inexcusable. They let the Vikings get into easy Field goal range from their 15 yard line in like 4 plays. That's inexcusable. I have like 5 more examples from this year alone. But I hope you're seeing the pattern here.

And you're correct maybe a player did miss an assignment we have no idea. But we do know these players DO NOT play soft cover zone well at all. We have 8 weeks of tape on it that proves my point.

At the end of day we are winning games and I'm happy about that. But if we keep on playing prevent or soft zone defense in the middle of the 4th quarter against teams like The Packers or the Bucs. We'll be sitting at home in February. Just sayin

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

I don't think they have the back-end talent to shut teams down completely. I think that Morris had to work with what he had at the start of the year and has developed them into a pretty good unit.

We already agreed on that pages ago. But they played better early non against Minnesota when they mixed in more man coverage. Once they get a lead they play more zone. Maybe not a two deep shell but it’s a more conservative defense. They go mostly zone when they get second half leads.

So if the man works early why wouldn’t it work later? Plus several DBs have been playing better as the season goes on. Williams, and even Long ( who I’ve been very critical of ) are playing better. I hated seeing JJ and Hill go as much if not more than anyone on this forum. I kept hearing that the Rams have more than enough depth to replace them. They don’t. Putting Ramsey on Jefferson was working pretty well for the first half. Personally I’d rather they keep it going a little longer.

 

[Kupped]

I think we can both agree that the Rams did not play as aggressively on that one drive. Although I have a problem with that, the biggest gripe was having Reeder in as the safety valve for screens. He shouldn't have even been in game at that point since they knew Minnesota probably wasn't going to do too many runs on that drive.

They should have had Hollins or Howard in the game on that drive instead of Reeder and maybe have Rapp closer to the line of scrimmage.

So.. they should've changed what they've been doing to be in more of a prevent D than in their typical first-down structure?

Because now.. I'm confused... I thought the narrative was that the Rams went up and went into a conservative deep shell.. but now you're saying.. they were in the wrong D on first downs.. which is their base D against a team that likes to run?

 

[Kupped]

Well I'll rebuttal that by saying a couple of things. You're talking about games in their entirety. I'm talking about how they play once they get the lead in the 4th. Take the Texans game for example. They pulled their starters, fine ok. Then they give up 21 unanswered points in the 4th quarter. That's inexcusable. They let the Vikings get into easy Field goal range from their 15 yard line in like 4 plays. That's inexcusable. I have like 5 more examples from this year alone. But I hope you're seeing the pattern here.

And you're correct maybe a player did miss an assignment we have no idea. But we do know these players DO NOT play soft cover zone well at all. We have 8 weeks of tape on it that proves my point.

At the end of day we are winning games and I'm happy about that. But if we keep on playing prevent or soft zone defense in the middle of the 4th quarter against teams like The Packers or the Bucs. We'll be sitting at home in February. Just sayin

First point...
Um, yeah.. it's completely excusable. Don't waste quality snaps on starters when a game is no longer in doubt? Who gives a shit if it doesn't look good?

NFL teams score.. as I pointed out to someone... Seattle came out and torched the Rams in their fist possession in the 3rd Q. No prevent changes there.

So.. I'm just gonna say that this narrative is broken. Yep.. they do play too soft at times.. but the Minny drive? Go look at personnel groupings and alignment. I did.

 

[El Chapo Jr]

Fire Raheem!

 

[Tano]

So.. they should've changed what they've been doing to be in more of a prevent D than in their typical first-down structure?

Because now.. I'm confused... I thought the narrative was that the Rams went up and went into a conservative deep shell.. but now you're saying.. they were in the wrong D on first downs.. which is their base D against a team that likes to run?

Only on that series since they were up by 14 points. Minnesota didn't have time to do running plays and knew the Rams were going to rush Cousins like crazy and they went with screens to offset it. I would have had Reeder out of the game on that drive.

 

[OldSchool]

I've said from the start and will keep on saying it. Anybody who thinks McVay is going to fire his friend really does not know our coach at all.

 

[Kupped]

We already agreed on that pages ago. But they played better early non against Minnesota when they mixed in more man coverage. Once they get a lead they play more zone. Maybe not a two deep shell but it’s a more conservative defense. They go mostly zone when they get second half leads.

So if the man works early why wouldn’t it work later? Plus several DBs have been playing better as the season goes on. Williams, and even Long ( who I’ve been very critical of ) are playing better. I hated seeing JJ and Hill go as much if not more than anyone on this forum. I kept hearing that the Rams have more than enough depth to replace them. They don’t. Putting Ramsey on Jefferson was working pretty well for the first half. Personally I’d rather they keep it going a little longer.

So, in tight man.. they would've done better against the screens?
And weren't they in man on the TD?

I'm sorry.. but this is just old. NFL offenses can score... it happens.

Jefferson didn't score the TD.. they targeted another Rams DB in single.. in fact.. all the Rams corners were in press on that play.

It's the NFL.. the Rams held a team to 20 points on their home field despite giving up two turnovers inside their own 20. It was an exceptional defensive performance.

 

[Kupped]

Only on that series since they were up by 14 points. Minnesota didn't have time to do running plays and knew the Rams were going to rush Cousins like crazy and they went with screens to offset it. I would have had Reeder out of the game on that drive.

So, I'll be clear here...

Everyone else is criticizing Morris for going into a prevent.. which didn't really happen.. and you're criticizing him for not going into a prevent.

Two TDs down with 11:37 to go... the run game is ABSOLUTELY still relevant.

 

[Tano]

So, I'll be clear here...

Everyone else is criticizing Morris for going into a prevent.. which didn't really happen.. and you're criticizing him for not going into a prevent.

Two TDs down with 11:37 to go... the run game is ABSOLUTELY still relevant.

Umm no I am not saying go into Prevent - I am just saying I wouldn't have had such a big problem going with a softer zone if he had Reeder out of the game

We were stopping the runs all game with our DL and I think we would have done decently still against the run even if Reeder was out of the game and we had Hollins and/or Howard in the game instead.

 

[Kupped]

Umm no I am not saying go into Prevent - I am just saying I wouldn't have had such a big problem going with a softer zone if he had Reeder out of the game

We were stopping the runs all game with our DL and I think we would have done decently still against the run even if Reeder was out of the game and we had Hollins and/or Howard in the game instead.

So.. again... don't do what you do on defense that's successful.. do something else.
And.. so.. we're saying it's Reeder's fault.

Lol

 

[Tano]

So.. again... don't do what you do on defense that's successful.. do something else.
And.. so.. we're saying it's Reeder's fault.

Lol

You are not understanding what I am saying

I disagreed with going softer on those plays, but I wouldn't have had such a problem with it if Reeder was not in.

They were playing a defense that drive that required pass defending linebackers.

That defense was not nearly as agressive as the first 3 quarters defense.

If you look at the screens, Reeder was the closest guy and he was 15 yards off the line of scrimmage. He didn't have a chance to get back into the play. Every one else was even farther off the line of scrimmage except for the pass rushers.

 

[Kupped]

So.. again... don't do what you do on defense that's successful.. do something else.
And.. so.. we're saying it's Reeder's fault.

Lol

First play.. screen to TE.. Reeder gets taken out by a blocker.
Second play.. deep middle.. three guys nearby in coverage.. no one close enough to make a play.. Ramsey, Williams and Fuller. It looked like Williams was pattern matching and stayed over the top but not close enough.
3rd play.. RB screen to Hollins and Howard side of the field.. Hollins gets completely lost and then washed out.. Howard initially blocked and makes a tackle 18 yards down field.
4th play.. screen to Hollins side of field.. Rapp and Hollins combine for stop after gain of 6.
5th TE sits down in front of zone and Reeder and Rapp for 10 yard gain.
6th play... inside handoff for 2 yards.
8th play... blitz.. 6 men rush.. single coverage, touchdown.

 

[Kupped]

You are not understanding what I am saying

I disagreed with going softer on those plays, but I wouldn't have had such a problem with it if Reeder was not in.

They were playing a defense that drive that required pass defending linebackers.

That defense was not nearly as agressive as the first 3 quarters defense.

If you look at the screens, Reeder was the closest guy and he was 15 yards off the line of scrimmage. He didn't have a chance to get back into the play. Every one else was even farther off the line of scrimmage except for the pass rushers.

So... No... if you look at my post.

Also.. Well, Reeder is the backup at that spot.. not Morris' first choice, either.

 

[RamsSince1969]

I've said from the start and will keep on saying it. Anybody who thinks McVay is going to fire his friend really does not know our coach at all.

I thought I was his friend! Signed, Sam Sloman.

 

[Tano]

So... No... if you look at my post.

Also.. Well, Reeder is the backup at that spot.. not Morris' first choice, either.

I don't think either of us know just what in heck the other is trying to say

 

[Kupped]

You are not understanding what I am saying

I disagreed with going softer on those plays, but I wouldn't have had such a problem with it if Reeder was not in.

They were playing a defense that drive that required pass defending linebackers.

That defense was not nearly as agressive as the first 3 quarters defense.

If you look at the screens, Reeder was the closest guy and he was 15 yards off the line of scrimmage. He didn't have a chance to get back into the play. Every one else was even farther off the line of scrimmage except for the pass rushers.

What I showed, in the breakdown of the drive, is that what you're suggesting would've made no difference.

And.. what I showed.. was that they mixed it up.. .just like in other quarters.

Obviously, you didn't look at the game again.. because your statement about Reeder is untrue, with the exception of the first screen.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

I'm laughing right now... listening to Jourdan and Rich rolling their eyes at the "Fire Raheem" people who keep saying it, even now.

Yes, I'm aware that they can be wrong as well.. but, in this case, Jourdan brings a lot of different metrics to show just how much better they are now.

That’s a little bit of cherry picking. They also said that it was rough in the beginning, it wasn’t exactly a linear path to get to this point, the defense still tends to get too much like Tampa Two and it’s not last years defense. Look when this thread was started. Many people had legit concerns and Jourdan and Rich did acknowledge that. They even said that it’s still not perfect but it is much improved and it’s been a work in progress.

 

[Kupped]

That’s a little bit of cherry picking. They also said that it was rough in the beginning, it wasn’t exactly a linear path to get to this point, the defense still tends to get too much like Tampa Two and it’s not last years defense. Look when this thread was started. Many people had legit concerns and Jourdan and Rich did acknowledge that. They even said that it’s still not perfect but it is much improved and it’s been a work in progress.

Sure!
And.. to be clear.. I've never said Morris is great or perfect.
I've said he's good and that he's not a problem. And... I've said all along that the defense is evolving.

Remember.. this thread started as "Fire Morris"... and THAT'S where this started.