Raheem Morris discussion thread

[Zodi]

In no world should an ILB be covering Hill, any ILB in the league should not be covering Tyreek Hill.

Which is why I called his point legit

 

[1maGoh]

I’d say there are a couple of big factors that are important in making comps to last year’s system.
First off.. teams had a year of tape to look at. Don’t think that matters? Go look at the Chargers D and see how it’s doing.
The Rams lost a lot of players on D. Part of the cost of paying about $43 mil to the QB position.
It’s hard to know how much better this D would be with only Hill & Johnson from that group.. but I am pretty confident it would make a big difference.

Wow. You really think I'm unaware of those things? Are you really going to just completely dismiss everything I said? I mean, you didn't even address any of it. I read your first few posts in this thread, which means I've read those points you just made a few times now. I get that you think you're right, but damn. Please at least pretend like you think the rest of us are intelligent enough to understand you the first, second, or third time you say something.

 

[majrleaged]

Not completely accurate.
And he was on Adams 56%, for example.
And… is it? More ints & passes defenses than last year already.

It still needs work, and Morris seems to be trying.

I’m of the school of thought that putting Ramsey in man on one guy, all game long, is a waste.

Not if it frees up other players to double every one else. There are some teams it isn't important for Ramsey to be on there best receiver. But in the cardinals game he should be on coverage every play. He needs to take away one of their top receiver. We double the other one. He follows and plays man to man on one of them they can zone or whatever with everybody else. they also need to stop letting receivers off the line of scrimmage free. knock them off there route for a second or two. We will get more sacks. Stop playing scared.

 

[Kupped]

Wow. You really think I'm unaware of those things? Are you really going to just completely dismiss everything I said? I mean, you didn't even address any of it. I read your first few posts in this thread, which means I've read those points you just made a few times now. I get that you think you're right, but damn. Please at least pretend like you think the rest of us are intelligent enough to understand you the first, second, or third time you say something.

Sorry if that didn't seem like an appropriate response.

I don't think "stat hunting" is the problem for Ramsey or anyone else on the defense. I don't think "BAM" plays are about stats, I think they're about making impact plays, much like the offense is hunting "explosives."

I want to point out the inherent conflict in what you said.. Morris said he's not worried about one statistic.. "being number one defense".. which is, traditionally, the defense that gives up the most yardage. He wants more BAM plays.. which are merely different kinds of stats.
If those lead to turnovers, game changing plays, great.

Here was what Morris actually said:

“It’s really hard to say where you’re at on defense. You’ve got to go play against some other people,” he said. “But I like where we’re at with the energy. I like where we’re at from a learning curve. I like where we’re at from a mentality standpoint. And the guys buying into what we’re trying to sell. We got to go out there and we got to make those splash plays and those plays that make a difference in the game. We like to call them M.A.D. plays. ‘Make A Difference’ plays, right? So, if you go out and you establish that culture and you establish those things, you’ll be the best defense. Statistically, everybody gets caught up in those things. My saying is ‘stats are for losers.’ But if we can go out and make those memorable plays, those plays that make a difference in the game to help us win football games, that’s all I’m here for and that’s all I care about.”

Here's another quote from Morris:

“They were able to affect all quarterbacks and these guys came out and they were able to mentally and physically affect quarterbacks,” he said. “I think that was the biggest difference that happened last year, that allowed them to extend to a different greatness and when that happened. I think they got more confidence. I think the back end played with more confidence that allowed them to get after the ball. So, if you can affect the quarterback and get the ball like they were able to do, you’re going to have good statistics.”

So, I think that what he's saying is getting kind of lost in people looking for reasons to criticize him, to be honest..
Nothing in what he says was about people piling up individual stats, it's all about trying to win.

I think the two biggest factors for this defense's step back this year are the NFL's familiarity with Staley's D after a full season of tape.. and the number of changes in personnel, especially in the defensive backfield. Third to that, to me, is Morris' scheme adjustments. What it's really hard to know is how much of his adjustments are a function of the first two items and, when I look at the Chargers this year, I don't think it's wrong to suggest that last year's Rams defensive personnel was a perfect fit at the perfect time.

 

[Kupped]

I'm hoping we see a ton of Jones & Rapp in the box. There was some of that look last game and I think it will give them good second level speed to the edge to help contain that little MFer.

I do too, but that means more Nick Scott playing high.. which.. is he better than Rapp in that role?

I know I'm a broken record.. but this team has back-end personnel issues.

 

[Kupped]

Not if it frees up other players to double every one else. There are some teams it isn't important for Ramsey to be on there best receiver. But in the cardinals game he should be on coverage every play. He needs to take away one of their top receiver. We double the other one. He follows and plays man to man on one of them they can zone or whatever with everybody else. they also need to stop letting receivers off the line of scrimmage free. knock them off there route for a second or two. We will get more sacks. Stop playing scared.

And they're doing this a bunch of the time, aren't they?
Sure.. they have Ramsey blitz some.. but they're moving him around in coverage and that's the point of his position... keep the D guessing.
For some reason, Lawrence didn't ID where he was on a 4th down play last week and Ramsey broke it up.

I don't know who the Cards #1 is this week. Hopkins is back, but is he 100%?

Who is Dont'e Deayon stopping from getting off the line?

 

[1maGoh]

Sorry if that didn't seem like an appropriate response.

I don't think "stat hunting" is the problem for Ramsey or anyone else on the defense. I don't think "BAM" plays are about stats, I think they're about making impact plays, much like the offense is hunting "explosives."

I want to point out the inherent conflict in what you said.. Morris said he's not worried about one statistic.. "being number one defense".. which is, traditionally, the defense that gives up the most yardage. He wants more BAM plays.. which are merely different kinds of stats.
If those lead to turnovers, game changing plays, great.

Here was what Morris actually said:

“It’s really hard to say where you’re at on defense. You’ve got to go play against some other people,” he said. “But I like where we’re at with the energy. I like where we’re at from a learning curve. I like where we’re at from a mentality standpoint. And the guys buying into what we’re trying to sell. We got to go out there and we got to make those splash plays and those plays that make a difference in the game. We like to call them M.A.D. plays. ‘Make A Difference’ plays, right? So, if you go out and you establish that culture and you establish those things, you’ll be the best defense. Statistically, everybody gets caught up in those things. My saying is ‘stats are for losers.’ But if we can go out and make those memorable plays, those plays that make a difference in the game to help us win football games, that’s all I’m here for and that’s all I care about.”

Here's another quote from Morris:

“They were able to affect all quarterbacks and these guys came out and they were able to mentally and physically affect quarterbacks,” he said. “I think that was the biggest difference that happened last year, that allowed them to extend to a different greatness and when that happened. I think they got more confidence. I think the back end played with more confidence that allowed them to get after the ball. So, if you can affect the quarterback and get the ball like they were able to do, you’re going to have good statistics.”

So, I think that what he's saying is getting kind of lost in people looking for reasons to criticize him, to be honest..
Nothing in what he says was about people piling up individual stats, it's all about trying to win.

I think the two biggest factors for this defense's step back this year are the NFL's familiarity with Staley's D after a full season of tape.. and the number of changes in personnel, especially in the defensive backfield. Third to that, to me, is Morris' scheme adjustments. What it's really hard to know is how much of his adjustments are a function of the first two items and, when I look at the Chargers this year, I don't think it's wrong to suggest that last year's Rams defensive personnel was a perfect fit at the perfect time.

I hear you on it being difficult to determine what percentage of adjustments (and the failure of those adjustments) is due to personnel, how much is due to existing tape, and how much is due to Morris not being familiar and trying to run something he's previously not had experience with. I'll say again, it's not like he had a great deal of success elsewhere with what he is familiar with so the idea that he's actually operating a defense he's unfamiliar with at peak performance (given lacking personnel and tape existing) feels like such a stretch to me.

That being said, we've seen that McVay's offense fails when it goes for the big play all the time. Not just his, but that's the easy example. His desire for speed at RB and the lack of a RB that can really grind out tough yards had hurt us and we recognize that. When he abandons the run and goes empty sets it kills our offense.

The same thing goes for defense always going for explosive plays. It was a concern as soon as I heard him say it and it's turning out exactly like I thought it would. The defense isn't great, or even good, but we're 9th in INTs and 4th in sacks. We were number 1 in points and yardage on defense last year. We were 13th in INTs and 26th in sacks, but the defense was better. If take fewer splash plays in trade for a stingier defense that's better at limiting yards and points. Not that the offense was helping them much in that 3 game stretch, but the whole damn team wasn't playing complimentary football.

 

[Kupped]

I hear you on it being difficult to determine what percentage of adjustments (and the failure of those adjustments) is due to personnel, how much is due to existing tape, and how much is due to Morris not being familiar and trying to run something he's previously not had experience with. I'll say again, it's not like he had a great deal of success elsewhere with what he is familiar with so the idea that he's actually operating a defense he's unfamiliar with at peak performance (given lacking personnel and tape existing) feels like such a stretch to me.

That being said, we've seen that McVay's offense fails when it goes for the big play all the time. Not just his, but that's the easy example. His desire for speed at RB and the lack of a RB that can really grind out tough yards had hurt us and we recognize that. When he abandons the run and goes empty sets it kills our offense.

The same thing goes for defense always going for explosive plays. It was a concern as soon as I heard him say it and it's turning out exactly like I thought it would. The defense isn't great, or even good, but we're 9th in INTs and 4th in sacks. We were number 1 in points and yardage on defense last year. We were 13th in INTs and 26th in sacks, but the defense was better. If take fewer splash plays in trade for a stingier defense that's better at limiting yards and points. Not that the offense was helping them much in that 3 game stretch, but the whole damn team wasn't playing complimentary football.

So, the first paragraph, I think, is a great setup for a comp between the Rams and Chargers.

Last year, the Chargers were 10th in yardage and 23rd in scoring defense. This year, they're 16th and 27th.

The Rams have fallen to 11th and 16th.. and I still say that scoring number needs a huge asterisk because of the pick 6's and other bad turnovers on their side of the field .

My contention, as stated, is that the personnel and tape are the biggest factor in the Rams taking a step back.. and not close to a catastrophic step back, at that. It's a good D. You *seem* to be saying that the biggest problem with the D is Morris (I don't want to put words in your mouth, that's what I got from the first paragraph.)

I would use the fact that the Chargers not only have not improved on defense this year, they're worse than they were last year. How does that fit in your analysis? Did the Chargers endure greater personnel losses than the Rams? Not from what I've looked at. We can't use "experience in the system" because the Rams D took the jump in Staley's first year.
So, I return to the fact that the NFL had an offseason to check that D out and see how to attack it.. most notably, teams probably watched the Packers playoff game where they just kept motioning the ILB out of the box and then ran it up the middle.

Anyway, it's a straightforward question. If the issue is coaching, not scheme, what's the deal with the Chargers?

I'd disagree with you, obviously, that this defense is actually good. Not "great".. just, good. I think the numbers bear that out.. top 5 sacks.. etc.

This would all take me back to the three game stretch where the offense spotted the other team points. That's a critical failure in the NFL and the Rams paid for it.

Last week? No turnovers, easy win.

This week? No turnovers should help you make it a tight game and give you a great shot to win.

 

[1maGoh]

So, the first paragraph, I think, is a great setup for a comp between the Rams and Chargers.

Last year, the Chargers were 10th in yardage and 23rd in scoring defense. This year, they're 16th and 27th.

The Rams have fallen to 11th and 16th.. and I still say that scoring number needs a huge asterisk because of the pick 6's and other bad turnovers on their side of the field .

My contention, as stated, is that the personnel and tape are the biggest factor in the Rams taking a step back.. and not close to a catastrophic step back, at that. It's a good D. You *seem* to be saying that the biggest problem with the D is Morris (I don't want to put words in your mouth, that's what I got from the first paragraph.)

I would use the fact that the Chargers not only have not improved on defense this year, they're worse than they were last year. How does that fit in your analysis? Did the Chargers endure greater personnel losses than the Rams? Not from what I've looked at. We can't use "experience in the system" because the Rams D took the jump in Staley's first year.
So, I return to the fact that the NFL had an offseason to check that D out and see how to attack it.. most notably, teams probably watched the Packers playoff game where they just kept motioning the ILB out of the box and then ran it up the middle.

Anyway, it's a straightforward question. If the issue is coaching, not scheme, what's the deal with the Chargers?

I'd disagree with you, obviously, that this defense is actually good. Not "great".. just, good. I think the numbers bear that out.. top 5 sacks.. etc.

This would all take me back to the three game stretch where the offense spotted the other team points. That's a critical failure in the NFL and the Rams paid for it.

Last week? No turnovers, easy win.

This week? No turnovers should help you make it a tight game and give you a great shot to win.

Like I said, it's hard to say what's really causing it. For the Chargers, Staley has more responsibilities this year than he did last year. IDK everything about the staffing on their team but I bet the rest of his staff isn't as good as ours was last year. He has to be a head coach and a DC this year, unless he has someone else completely responsible for the D. If that's the case, they don't really have what we had. Either way a drop off is somewhat expected.

The tape plays a part. The personnel plays a part. How much of what Staley did last year is dependent on having a talent like Donald? Or Ramsey? Or both? We talk about how he brought the star position here. Does he have someone of Ramsey's talent to do the star? I'd guess not.

Last year we had opposing teams score points off of turnovers and short fields too. I don't think they came in a bunch like they did this year, but they happened. And they happen to every team.

I would really love to hear what makes you think Morris is capable of running a high quality defense. Of his entire coaching career to a defense he coached was top 10 in either category once. Otherwise we haven't seen it yet in his career. Why would he suddenly break out using a defense he doesn't know? And I'll say he seems like a great leader. His press conferences are top notch. That's got nothing to do with actually coaching a defense though. So what is it that gives you so much confidence in him?

 

[Kupped]

Like I said, it's hard to say what's really causing it. For the Chargers, Staley has more responsibilities this year than he did last year. IDK everything about the staffing on their team but I bet the rest of his staff isn't as good as ours was last year. He has to be a head coach and a DC this year, unless he has someone else completely responsible for the D. If that's the case, they don't really have what we had. Either way a drop off is somewhat expected.

The tape plays a part. The personnel plays a part. How much of what Staley did last year is dependent on having a talent like Donald? Or Ramsey? Or both? We talk about how he brought the star position here. Does he have someone of Ramsey's talent to do the star? I'd guess not.

Last year we had opposing teams score points off of turnovers and short fields too. I don't think they came in a bunch like they did this year, but they happened. And they happen to every team.

I would really love to hear what makes you think Morris is capable of running a high quality defense. Of his entire coaching career to a defense he coached was top 10 in either category once. Otherwise we haven't seen it yet in his career. Why would he suddenly break out using a defense he doesn't know? And I'll say he seems like a great leader. His press conferences are top notch. That's got nothing to do with actually coaching a defense though. So what is it that gives you so much confidence in him?

I'll go by point.
If we're talking about staff not being as good, why doesn't that apply to Morris? Even more? He lost Pleasant and Joe Barry (now a D coordinator), losing two sources of experience he could've leaned on to learn the new system? And Staley got to pick his staff. So, I'm not going to entertain that one very much. It's his defense, much like the Rams offense is all McVay's.

As to the personnel difference between the Rams and Chargers.. That's why I compared the Chargers to *themselves*, last year. They're worse this year without a purge on defense near what the Rams went through. Derwin James would actually be about as close to ideal a "star*.. and he's a special player..

The many hats of Derwin James: Exploring the 5 positions the Chargers' star defender plays

Brandon Staley on James: "It's a tall job description, and he's one of the few guys in the entire world that can do it."

theathletic.com

Yep, absolutely on the points against from offense.. but the combination of direct scores, plus turnovers that immediately put the opposition in scoring position is pretty darn high.. and.. well.. looky here..

NFL QB Pick Six Year-by-Year Leaders (since 1950) | Pro-Football-Reference.com

2023. Sam Howell (4), 2022. Davis Mills (3), 2022. Dak Prescott (3), 2021. Matthew Stafford (4), 2020. Matthew Stafford (3),

www.pro-football-reference.com

Stafford lead the NFL in pick-sixes last year.. and leads this year! That doesn't county the int against Tenn that left them at the 2 or the fumble that gave the Pack the ball at the six. We can throw in a few FGs here.
Point is, the Rams are higher in this spot than other teams, it's pretty clear.

What makes me think he's capable? Well, the job he's doing now, for one. We have a difference of opinion on that. 11th in yardage... 5th in sacks.. 11th in ints.. these all point to a "good" defense. They've absolutely played well enough to win all but 2 games this season.. and it's completely arguable that the offense was responsible for a third (9ers game), but the D definitely had some real problems in that game.

I'm not suggesting he's Vic Fangio or something like that, I'm simply going to reiterate that he's not the biggest problem with the defense and I'm pointing to some pretty clear evidence that the scheme and personnel are presenting bigger challenges this year than any specific coaching issue people can point to, imo.

Is it his fault the team spent two years developing David Long, only to see he can't get it done? They obviously were trying to get him reps in training camp to be ready for single coverage (Cowboys practice) and he's just not up to the task.
Burgess can't get on the field. DD is getting a ton of time and he could barely be on the active roster last year.
Our single biggest indicator the D was going to have problems this season was when AJ Green had a field day against Long and converted play after play.

 

[Merlin]

What matters is this upcoming stretch (that's going to determine whether Morris is good enough) and there are some indicators that this defense could be on the upswing. So I am hopeful.

Jones emerging is a big deal and might impact things considerably depending on how good he can play.

Von's addition is an improvement to our contain and our depth at OLB is better, also Von has the ability to play at a high level still and that may be ahead.

Deayon has his moments but as a CB3 he has helped settle down this secondary. Long was a coverage liability, Rochell looked too much like the rookie he is, so that change has made a difference for us. Also Williams is starting to play better, was that injury part of how bad he's looked at times? No idea but if we get him back even 80% to who he was last year we're gonna be in pretty good shape in coverage.

Gaines has looked better and better as he's settled in as our NT. He's starting to duo nicely with AD too on the rush. Robinson playing well vs the run, which I did not expect to be honest. So our front all told between them and Jones is looking better and better.

Nothing would make me happier than to see Morris succeed. I do like his background of coaching so many positions. I think the guy will be an excellent HC some day. But for now all I want to see is a playoff defense. Sure would be nice to see that unit come around for this December stretch run and into the playoffs.

 

[Kupped]

 

[Tano]

He definitely called a better game today but there were a couple dumb ass plays too that he called

 

[Kupped]

He definitely called a better game today but there were a couple dumb ass plays too that he called

No snark.. what was an obviously bad call he made? And when I say bad, I mean glaringly fucking bad, since you're calling them "dumb ass."

 

[Tano]

No snark.. what was an obviously bad call he made? And when I say bad, I mean glaringly fucking bad, since you're calling them "dumb ass."

That one where it was 3rd and forever and Williams was backing off and the receiver made a first down after passing the first down marker by one yard before Williams started to come back and cover the receiver
There were a couple of them iirc
I really hate those calls
But then again - I really should not get into this conversation again
You and I disagree with how Morris calls his game and that's fine
However, this game may have saved his ass.
And I hope he continues to learn from his mistakes.

 

[Kupped]

That one where it was 3rd and forever and Williams was backing off and the receiver made a first down after passing the first down marker by one yard before Williams started to come back and cover the receiver
There were a couple of them iirc
I really hate those calls
But then again - I really should not get into this conversation again
You and I disagree with how Morris calls his game and that's fine
However, this game may have saved his ass.
And I hope he continues to learn from his mistakes.

Yeah.. you're probably right.

Because... playing without the guys he didn't have??? Incredible performance against a top-end offense in a critical, critical game.
Don't turnover the ball on offense and it's amazing what good things can happen.

It didn't "save his ass".. he was nowhere near in danger, despite what you'd read on this board.

I mean.. you think he coached Nick Scott to let Kirk run deep late in the game? Come on.

 

[Tano]

I mean.. you think he coached Nick Scott to let Kirk run deep late in the game? Come on.

No but having players backing up 5 yards beyond the first down marker on 3rd and long is all on him

 

[OldSchool]

There are still problems with the scheme and play calling at times but today was a much better performance. It was especially a good performance motivating the team to play harder with being dealt the shitty hand by the covid rules.

 

[Tano]

There are still problems with the scheme and play calling at times but today was a much better performance. It was especially a good performance motivating the team to play harder with being dealt the shitty hand by the covid rules.

Oh I agree it was his best game calling this year - but change the damn 3rd and long calls and third and short calls and I would be a hell of a lot happier

 

[Kupped]

No but having players backing up 5 yards beyond the first down marker on 3rd and long is all on him

When it's *part* of the coverage plan and it's mixed in.. and made to give DBs eyes on the ball... I just don't. Plenty of teams mix in coverage exactly like that.
He called a HELL of a game tonight and had his team ready to go.
I mean.. goddamn... mixing in things like Floyd dropping in coverage into exactly the right spot.. Having Jones set up perfectly for the Int (he would have at least deflected it if Donald had not)...

It was a GREAT game by the D, especially under the circumstances.