Not impressed with the hands up BS displayed by the Rams WRs

[yrba1]

I don't think the cops are upset over the disrespect but rather the possibility of instigating the unrestful masses.

 

[12intheBox]

http://m.dailykos.com/story/2014/12...ld-stand-to-support-the-Rams-football-players


St. Louis is more racially segregated than many of us ever truly understood. Even the police officers in the city have separate organizationsadvocating on behalf of white and black interests.
When Jeff Roorda and the predominantly white St. Louis Police Officers Association came out with a statement to blast the pre-game "Hands Up, Don't Shoot" gesture done by five players from the St. Louis Rams and declared that they should be fined, suspended, and offer an apology, it was wrongly assumed by many that Roorda spoke for all of the police in St. Louis. He did not.

The black police officer's association in St. Louisissued a bold statement declaring their complete support for the players. Gloria McCollum, general counsel for their association, just issued the following statement, which you can read below the fold, on their behalf.

THE ETHICAL SOCIETY OF POLICE, is the primary voice of African
American Police Officers in St. Louis City, and as such it COMPLETELY SUPPORTS THE ACTIONS OF THE ST. LOUIS RAMS FOOTBALL PLAYERS IN WHICH THEY SHOWED SUPPORT FOR THE FAMILY OF MICHAEL BROWN BY ENTERING THE STADIUM WITH THEIR HANDS UP.
We think that their actions were commendable and that they should not be ridiculed, disciplined or punished for taking a stand on this very important issue which is of great concern around the world and especially in the community where these players work.

THE STATEMENTS OF THE ST. LOUIS POLICE OFFICERS
ASSOCIATION DO NOT REFLECT THE OPINIONS OF THE MAJORITY OF AFRICAN AMERICAN POLICE OFFICERS IN THE DEPARTMENT BECAUSE THERE ARE NO AFRICAN AMERICAN OFFICERS ON THEIR GOVERNING BOARD AND THEY HAVE A MINIMAL AMOUNT OF AFRICAN AMERICAN MEMBERS.

The Ethical Society of Police has been the primary bridge between [the] African American community and the police department for many years. The Ethical Society will use its best efforts to continue to work with the community leaders and the Department of Justice to address issues that affect our community such as racial profiling, police brutality and disparities in hiring and disciplining practices of African American Officers.

While it is often widely assumed that black and white officers feel the same about issues of race and police brutality, it is clear that this is not the case in St. Louis and that the divide between officers there echoes the deeper divide in the city itself.

 

[Ramhusker]

I don't think the cops are upset over the disrespect but rather the possibility of instigating the unrestful masses.

No, I think the cops were upset that the gesture was supporting the lie that Brown had his hands up when he was shot. I think that is the root of the rub.

 

[Boffo97]

No, I think the cops were upset that the gesture was supporting the lie that Brown had his hands up when he was shot. I think that is the root of the rub.

Precisely this. Unless one is maintaining that that lie is truth, the gesture makes no sense as no one shot anyone with their hands up in the Michael Brown incident. Had he had his hands up, he wouldn't have been shot. That's not what happened though.

As said elsewhere by others, to maintain that that gesture was not meant to disrespect police officers is either dumb or disingenuous. A man's life has already been ruined over this lie.

 

[Ram Quixote]

A man's life has already been ruined over this lie.

*sigh* I know nothing about what happened to Michael Brown. In fact, most of what I've learned, I learned here at ROD.

And yet, I still wonder that Officer Wilson couldn't come up with a less lethal defense. Even though his life may be ruined, he's still alive.

 

[BKBISTRO]

*sigh* I know nothing about what happened to Michael Brown. In fact, most of what I've learned, I learned here at ROD.

And yet, I still wonder that Officer Wilson couldn't come up with a less lethal defense. Even though his life may be ruined, he's still alive.

Wilson must have been scared for his life. Talk to any cop and he/she will tell you if what came out of the investigation was true, most would have done the same thing. However you are right that we may never know what really happened - only Brown, Wilson, and God know.

 

[reggae]

No, I think the cops were upset that the gesture was supporting the lie that Brown had his hands up when he was shot. I think that is the root of the rub.

What a bunch of crap! Wilson murdered that kid! That is irrefutable fact!

 

[theramsruleUK]

Cook spoke very articulately and did a great job of trying to diffuse a situation that he obviously feels emotionally about

He did a great job there in my opinion. Let's tear it up in Sunday now

 

[jrry32]

Come on man. I'll give you some of this but really? This was a freaking tragedy and this cop needs to pay. Of that I have little doubt. But let's not make this completely about damning one segment of society and giving all others a pass.

But yeah - no freaking indictment? Seriously?

Personally, I think there needs to be a far better job done in general when it comes to giving someone a badge and the inherent position to use force as a means for keeping the peace. I don't think for one second that this cop feared for his life - nor do I think that if the victim was actually trying to resist, this cop could have gotten that choke hold on him. That POS who someone bestowed a badge upon needs to be behind bars. What he did was worse than criminal. He betrayed the public trust and killed someone while pulling his mind numbing power trip.

Maybe someone in law enforcement can fill us in on what kinds of psychological evaluations cops go through or what kinds of red flags they look for. Because to me, this doesn't strike as a normal everyday cop making a mistake or only in this situation showing what he was capable of and all too willing to do.

What a sad commentary on the human condition.

The guy was being arrested for illegally selling cigarettes. It's just wrong. I don't know how any sane person could not indict him. It's pretty clear that the prosecutor did not want to take this to trial. I'd say the same thing about Ferguson.

I'm still not sure what said indictment would be for. The forensics investigation completely backed up the account that Brown was attacking Wilson, not surrendering.

When police are being attacked, they have to defend themselves. It's just too bad this one has still had his life ruined anyway.

Excessive force(for Ferguson).

 

[blue4]

What a bunch of crap! Wilson murdered that kid! That is irrefutable fact!

Either you forgot the blue font or you're not clear what irrefutable means.

 

[Thordaddy]

I'm outa the Off topic thread , I appreciate Cook trying to smooth things out and think he may have been prompted to do so

BUT this statement troubles me

"They have to understand that we're ambassadors for them as well as other parts of St. Louis. As Rams, and as the NFL, we represent everybody"

Jared you need to remember that as well and understand that is why some are upset ,the gesture did not represent the POV of many people ,so think before you "speak for others"

I also have a problem with the "why would I do this or that " question , unless you make your motives perfectly clear when you act, you leave it up to interpretation and if you can't already KNOW WHY someone would think your motives were different than you intended , you need to think about it, IMO it was a request for empathy, that did not include empathy.

 

[Big Unit]

I don't know what happened. Cops have a horrible job, involving split second decisions; I hate to "Monday morning quarterback" them. But everything else isn't split second. First, there's an incorrect impression that the grand jury determined the facts, and exonerated Officer Wilson. I'm a former appellate prosecutor, and that's not how a grand jury works. Only the prosecutor decides whether to impanel a grand jury, and what it sees. And any prosecutor worth his salt has a close relationship with the police; depends on them to handle arrests correctly so he can get convictions. Here, the prosecutor's dad was a cop, killed on duty; his mom was a cop; his brother a cop.

Nothing wrong with that; but imagine how it looks to the parents of Michael Brown? Imagine it's reversed; police are 95% black, your unarmed white 18 year old is shot and killed; and the prosecutor who controls what to charge is black, and intimately connected with the black police department. I wouldn't like it. I thought back in August that Bob McCulloch should have appointed a special prosecutor, because of the appearance of a conflict of interest. Decided maybe I was wrong when Claire McCaskill, herself a former prosecutor, said he'd do a good job. And he did do a good job; but sounded more like a defense attorney for the police, than a prosecutor. So now I think it's an opportunity lost to improve police/community relations. Too bad.

And it's an open question whether Brown had his hands up; grand jury sees only what the prosecutor presents. Just sad, all the way around. But for any of the Rams to suffer for it is a shame

 

[Alan]

reggae noting the obvious:
What a bunch of crap! Wilson murdered that kid! That is irrefutable fact!

It's pointless to rant about that here though. C'est la vie mon ami.

 

[LesBaker]

*sigh* I know nothing about what happened to Michael Brown. In fact, most of what I've learned, I learned here at ROD.

And yet, I still wonder that Officer Wilson couldn't come up with a less lethal defense. Even though his life may be ruined, he's still alive.

I agree. He used poor judgement firing into his body when maybe he could have shot into his leg. Maybe the guy would still be alive. I know he wasn't some innocent kid out playing that was gunned down by an evil racist, but what he did wouldn't earn him the death penalty in a courtroom so it shouldn't on the street.

It seems some people don't understand that you shouldn't fuck around with police. They have a high stress job and can't afford to take threats and situations like this lightly.

It's just so ugly I hate it.

 

[61Woody]

I agree. He used poor judgement firing into his body when maybe he could have shot into his leg. Maybe the guy would still be alive. I know he wasn't some innocent kid out playing that was gunned down by an evil racist, but what he did wouldn't earn him the death penalty in a courtroom so it shouldn't on the street.

It seems some people don't understand that you shouldn't freak around with police. They have a high stress job and can't afford to take threats and situations like this lightly.

It's just so ugly I hate it.

Only on TV will you ever see anyone shoot someone in the leg. To small a target and if you miss you could end up dead yourself.

 

[lockdnram21]

Precisely this. Unless one is maintaining that that lie is truth, the gesture makes no sense as no one shot anyone with their hands up in the Michael Brown incident. Had he had his hands up, he wouldn't have been shot. That's not what happened though.

As said elsewhere by others, to maintain that that gesture was not meant to disrespect police officers is either dumb or disingenuous. A man's life has already been ruined over this lie.

how do ul kknow it was a lie? not trying to start anything but nobody that wsntthereknows what really happened. So i guess your going to say Gardner didnt get murdered either?

 

[BonifayRam]

I agree. He used poor judgement firing into his body when maybe he could have shot into his leg. Maybe the guy would still be alive. I know he wasn't some innocent kid out playing that was gunned down by an evil racist, but what he did wouldn't earn him the death penalty in a courtroom so it shouldn't on the street.

It seems some people don't understand that you shouldn't freak around with police. They have a high stress job and can't afford to take threats and situations like this lightly.

It's just so ugly I hate it.

Hey Les, well we do know this, that there was three breaks in time from where the first 2 rounds went off inside the vehicle when the young man was struck in the thumb with a round, then the second set of rounds with a pause then third final rounds.

The physical evidence indicates that the less mortal rounds that struck the young man was when he was in a more upright stance. The mortal wounds indicate the young man was in a more slightly bent forward stance. This could indicate the officer might have placed the middle set of rounds in the arms & outside shoulder & the mortal rounds in the last set of rounds. Just Saying this may have occurred or not.

 

[LesBaker]

how do ul kknow it was a lie? not trying to start anything but nobody that wsntthereknows what really happened. So i guess your going to say Gardner didnt get murdered either?

Actually there are accounts of what happenedso we do know much of what happened and while we don't know everything we do know Micheal Brown wasn't on the ground, or kneeling, or standing with his hands up as earlier reported.

The eyewitnesses (and all physical evidence) all said he wasn't in a hands up position. Even his friend that originally said it told the authorities when he was under oath that he was not in that position. He was charging at the officer who was telling him to stop. There is blood spatter along with eyewitnesses.

That's why the "hands up" thing bothers a lot of people. It perpetuates a lie that the officer killed someone that was surrendering and was at the officers mercy. It paints the officer as a killer and a racist. No amount of "we were just trying to show support" is going to make people who have actually read enough about this to understand that it is a lie. They are condemning something they don't know nearly enough about.

These guys should find out the facts and then fucking apologize. If I was advising any of them I would have them read the accounts of what happened and then explain to them (if I still had to) that what they did actually hurt and didn't help at all. It's furthered the divide and polarization of that community at the worst possible time.


For fucks sake humans treat each other badly enough without having their "sports heroes" encouraging more of that.

 

[LesBaker]

Hey Les, well we do know this, that there was three breaks in time from where the first 2 rounds went off inside the vehicle when the young man was struck in the thumb with a round, then the second set of rounds with a pause then third final rounds.

The physical evidence indicates that the less mortal rounds that struck the young man was when he was in a more upright stance. The mortal wounds indicate the young man was in a more slightly bent forward stance. This could indicate the officer might have placed the middle set of rounds in the arms & outside shoulder & the mortal rounds in the last set of rounds. Just Saying this may have occurred or not.

I've shot guns and rifles, but it's been years and years since I have and I'm nowhere near knowledgeable about the impact a .38 has and so maybe he shot six times because he had to.

This entire thing is so distasteful and this kids family and the cop and his family are going to need years to rebound from this if they ever can.

 

[Boffo97]

*sigh* I know nothing about what happened to Michael Brown. In fact, most of what I've learned, I learned here at ROD.

And yet, I still wonder that Officer Wilson couldn't come up with a less lethal defense. Even though his life may be ruined, he's still alive.

If a guy is charging a police officer rather than follow his commands to surrender, then IMO, he's brought his death on himself. After the results of the forensics report, I have no sympathy for Brown. That's not even going into the fact that Wilson did take less lethal shots and Brown was still coming.

Officers are trained that if they do shoot, shoot for the body and I think that's the only way they can be taught. Trying to shoot for the leg is more a Hollywood thing than a real life thing. There's a greater chance of a miss (and maybe hitting a bystander?) and leg wounds can still be fatal (RIP Sean Taylor).

Maybe the hands up gesture can be turned into saying "If told to surrender, put your hands up and do so. You won't be shot."