Not impressed with the hands up BS displayed by the Rams WRs

[RamFan503]

I'll admit that I'm biased though - I'm a pretty staunch defender of the constitution, of our liberty interests, and of each of our rights to live free - so that may be playing into my feelings on this issue a tad.

As am I. I'm a registered Libertarian. As such and a business owner, if my employees alienated or threatened to alienate a large portion of my customer base with a stunt not in keeping with their job duties while on my time, they'd have to answer for it. If they went down town and picketed and/or protested something on their own time, I would have absolutely no problem with it. I would prefer however that they don't do it while wearing their work shirt with my company emblazoned on it.

BTW - What if one of the Rams large sponsors has a problem with it and decides to pull some or all of its support? What if corporate box holders back out? PSL holders consider it the last straw? Etc. You can say that we don't need those fans but if I am a family member or good friend to a cop or several cops, I would be seriously pissed and doubt that I could see spending my money on supporting this kind of slap to my friends/family.

This is not about liberty OR freedom. If it were, I'd be right behind them lock step.

 

[bluecoconuts]

I believe the NFLN is owned by the NFL. That being said, two things occur to me. Would the NFLN allow them to make this kind of a "statement"? I'm guessing not. The other is - as Warner and Faulk are in a position of giving their opinions and observations (that is their job), it seems to me that commenting on this from their personal perspective would be completely different. And even then if the camera panned over to them and they were giving that gesture, I'm going to guess their time in front of a microphone would be drastically decreased.

Haven't they mentioned things to that nature before though? The NFL didn't do anything about it. My point is, if they did get pubished would people who demand punishment against the receivers be okay with it? I doubt it.

 

[RamFan503]

Haven't they mentioned things to that nature before though? The NFL didn't do anything about it. My point is, if they did get pubished would people who demand punishment against the receivers be okay with it? I doubt it.

I don't know. I would be ok with it. I may or may not agree with what they say but I'd be ok with them making a statement. Now if all they did was hold their hands up in that gesture and use the same BS excuse, I'd probably have a problem with it. If they instead, took a couple minutes (or however long they were allotted) and gave their opinion on the matter, what's there to say? I could say I agree or disagree with it. But that's about it.

 

[-X-]

Time Out Bar and Grill is in the Parthenon of RamFandom and is synonymous with the heart and soul of this team

we may never recover ....

Only if I subscribed to the idea that one bar could affect change, would you have a valid point. Right now it's only one bar (that we know of), the entire police department of St Louis County, and a low percentage of fans. Not bad for 20 seconds of political demonstration by 5 receivers. Maybe if they do it for the rest of the home games and include more players, they can up the ante and pretty much assure the team moves due to a damaging amount of non-support.

Which, you know, was my original point as to why it was *stupid*.

 

[RamFan503]

Haven't they mentioned things to that nature before though? The NFL didn't do anything about it. My point is, if they did get pubished would people who demand punishment against the receivers be okay with it? I doubt it.

One other point though. If they did it and people had a real problem with it, would the people be concentrating on the Rams or would they be NFL network commentators and former Rams? My point being that I don't think the Rams or any other individual team would be pin pointed in the ire of the fans that take exception. In that case, I don't think fans or sponsors would be anywhere near as likely to pull their support of the entire league.

 

[Mackeyser]

Maybe a player should make a slapping gesture. THEN maybe fans might take domestic violence as seriously as they are taking this token raised hand gesture...

I mean how many fans or businesses or PSL owners or sponsors quit the 49ers with Ray McDonald still playing? How many quit the Panthers when the convicted Greg Hardy was still playing?

If folks are gonna quit over a gesture, but won't quit over rape or DV convictions (not saying anyone here, just generic football fan), then something is seriously wrong. Did that bar support the Rams when Leonard Little was a Player? If so, why was that okay and this gesture too much?

 

[Dieter the Brock]

Only if I subscribed to the idea that one bar could affect change, would you have a valid point. Right now it's only one bar (that we know of), the entire police department of St Louis County, and a low percentage of fans. Not bad for 20 seconds of political demonstration by 5 receivers. Maybe if they do it for the rest of the home games and include more players, they can up the ante and pretty much assure the team moves due to a damaging amount of non-support.

Which, you know, was my original point as to why it was *stupid*.

I totally get it, it's just I think this team is bigger than this

 

[-X-]

Maybe a player should make a slapping gesture. THEN maybe fans might take domestic violence as seriously as they are taking this token raised hand gesture...

I mean how many fans or businesses or PSL owners or sponsors quit the 49ers with Ray McDonald still playing? How many quit the Panthers when the convicted Greg Hardy was still playing?

If folks are gonna quit over a gesture, but won't quit over rape or DV convictions (not saying anyone here, just generic football fan), then something is seriously wrong. Did that bar support the Rams when Leonard Little was a Player? If so, why was that okay and this gesture too much?

All good points, and as I said earlier, all of this will go away soon enough. The timing of it, however, was really bad ... and none of those other teams are going through a situation where it entirely matters how much support the community gives the Franchise over the next couple of years. It's really kind of pivotal to just concentrate on building a winning team without all of the needless distractions and/or doing things that will alienate even a small portion of the fan base.

 

[Mackeyser]

Oh, I'm not trying to diminish anyone's concerns. Sorry if it cams across that way.

I just think some perspective is in order.

EDIT: the 49ers opened a nearly Billion dollar stadium to crappy reviews and started by losing their first two home games. So, the 49er situation was actually very tenuous and Bay Area residents are as likely as any if not more so to protest via boycott over a cause. I'm sure the 49er ownership and Trent Baalke were really sweating that situation. The timing of Ray McDonald's DV arrest after Glenn Dorsey went down for the season was terrible especially in light of opening the new stadium.

Not the same, but at least in the 49ers situation, they had their own exigencies.

 

[bluecoconuts]

I just don't think we need to worry about sponsors pulling anything. As long as the juice is worth the squeeze and they'll get what they want (usually money) they won't do anything. Same reason why Oreo put the gay marriage support picture a few years back, Cheerios got flack for having an interracial couple in a comercial, and they made a second one. Lots of companies will look at the risk reward and take the risk. Its unlikely that they will lose money or have a damaged image because of this, so they will stand pat. It's just good business.

The bar that's stopping their support will probably regret it though. They may get extra support for a short while, then everyone will stop caring. So they likely either face profit losses by stopping events, or backtrack and start them again.

I don't think Stan will factor any of this in his decision on a stadium or possible relocation. Wouldn't be smart business to do so, he's going to factor in the important long term projections and issues, not short term things.

 

[Rabid Ram]

Only if I subscribed to the idea that one bar could affect change, would you have a valid point. Right now it's only one bar (that we know of), the entire police department of St Louis County, and a low percentage of fans. Not bad for 20 seconds of political demonstration by 5 receivers. Maybe if they do it for the rest of the home games and include more players, they can up the ante and pretty much assure the team moves due to a damaging amount of non-support.

Which, you know, was my original point as to why it was *stupid*.

This bar is doing the same thing the receivers did tthey are expressing ttheir opinion. IUnfortunately the bar decided to go the mmedia route for attention to drum up business smh iit's a pitiful play.

 

[12intheBox]

As am I. I'm a registered Libertarian. As such and a business owner, if my employees alienated or threatened to alienate a large portion of my customer base with a stunt not in keeping with their job duties while on my time, they'd have to answer for it. If they went down town and picketed and/or protested something on their own time, I would have absolutely no problem with it. I would prefer however that they don't do it while wearing their work shirt with my company emblazoned on it.

BTW - What if one of the Rams large sponsors has a problem with it and decides to pull some or all of its support? What if corporate box holders back out? PSL holders consider it the last straw? Etc. You can say that we don't need those fans but if I am a family member or good friend to a cop or several cops, I would be seriously pissed and doubt that I could see spending my money on supporting this kind of slap to my friends/family.

This is not about liberty OR freedom. If it were, I'd be right behind them lock step.

I suppose the business analysis really depends on the type of business we are talking about. How employee sensitive is it?

In the NFL the employees are the product. Having really good ones is very important if you want to win. The employees are difficult to replace and the prospective pool of replacements often have other suitors lining up. Quality of life matters to emolyees.

If it's my business, I would almost always give my players the benefit of the doubt - I would encourage them to be themselves and I would want to make sure that they are motivated to win.

If the sponsors have a problem with it - and the big ones certainly won't - then you waive buh bye and be glad you are parting ways.

 

[Ramhusker]

I just don't think we need to worry about sponsors pulling anything. As long as the juice is worth the squeeze and they'll get what they want (usually money) they won't do anything. Same reason why Oreo put the gay marriage support picture a few years back, Cheerios got flack for having an interracial couple in a comercial, and they made a second one. Lots of companies will look at the risk reward and take the risk. Its unlikely that they will lose money or have a damaged image because of this, so they will stand pat. It's just good business.

The bar that's stopping their support will probably regret it though. They may get extra support for a short while, then everyone will stop caring. So they likely either face profit losses by stopping events, or backtrack and start them again.

I don't think Stan will factor any of this in his decision on a stadium or possible relocation. Wouldn't be smart business to do so, he's going to factor in the important long term projections and issues, not short term things.

I know you are right. It's a short term thing. Teams can overcome much bigger issues. I mean, damn, Detroit still has a team.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

I would rather the players not take a stance on the Ferguson issue while in uniform. I have my views on the subject and the WRs have alienated me to a degree. I will still root for my Rams because it is rare to like every player on a team, but I have lost respect for the 5 that felt the need to demonstrate their point of view and take a side while on the field. It showed how stupid they are. Their gesture isn't helping anyone.

If they want to help then they should go to Ferguson, or should have gone to Ferguson during the looting and rioting and helped quell it, because even if the agree with the people that are rioting they should try to show them that what they were doing is wrong and only hurting them and their community, not helping.

The image that Ferguson has given itself Nationally is that of a lawless community bereft of uncontrollable animals. It just reinforces to the rest of America that there is a huge, criminal element in that town and that any cop working that beat should fear or his life everytime he dons the uniform. It makes Officer Wilson appear even more justified in shooting that guy. So, they have accomplished the opposite of what they set out to do. But the looters and rioters are either too stupid to realize that or just don't care.

Unfortunately Tavon, Stedman, Jared, Kenny and Chris don't see that they just look like they are supporters of criminal behavior, or they do understand and are proud of it.

 

[Boffo97]

I would rather the players not take a stance on the Ferguson issue while in uniform. I have my views on the subject and the WRs have alienated me to a degree. I will still root for my Rams because it is rare to like every player on a team, but I have lost respect for the 5 that felt the need to demonstrate their point of view and take a side while on the field. It showed how stupid they are. Their gesture isn't helping anyone.

If they want to help then they should go to Ferguson, or should have gone to Ferguson during the looting and rioting and helped quell it, because even if the agree with the people that are rioting they should try to show them that what they were doing is wrong and only hurting them and their community, not helping.

The image that Ferguson has given itself Nationally is that of a lawless community bereft of uncontrollable animals. It just reinforces to the rest of America that there is a huge, criminal element in that town and that any cop working that beat should fear or his life everytime he dons the uniform. It makes Officer Wilson appear even more justified in shooting that guy. So, they have accomplished the opposite of what they set out to do. But the looters and rioters are either too stupid to realize that or just don't care.

Unfortunately Tavon, Stedman, Jared, Kenny and Chris don't see that they just look like they are supporters of criminal behavior, or they do understand and are proud of it.

Agreed. To me, the root of why the police association demanded the apology is that these 5 men, representing the team, basically just told law enforcement everywhere "We aren't YOUR team." That's a pretty big slap in the face.

The TE for the Saints also gave a very good example of a much more appropriate way to give his opinion... and one with a lot more thought behind it than the stupid and not based in reality hands up gesture.

 

[Oh_Canada]

If this wound goes unresolved - with the scab continually picked at - it will fester until it is a gangrenous, putrid sore that poisons every conversation about race relations. It is already taking its toll on innocent people and true justice (whether we like the verdict or not) will be harder and harder to find. Here is an account of something that happened within the last couple of days ... and it's a direct result of the fires of Ferguson:
"Zemir Begic, a 32-year-old man who emigrated from war-torn Bosnia almost two decades ago in search of a better life, was bludgeoned to death Sunday, allegedly by a group of hammer-wielding teenagers, one of whom has been charged as an adult. Begic was driving with his fiancee, Arijana Mujkanovic, and a male passenger at about 1:15 a.m. Sunday in St. Louis when five teenagers began pounding his vehicle with a hammer, according to police. When Begic confronted them, he was struck in the mouth, face, head and body with hammers and died at a nearby hospital."

Get a grip people!! Stop making accommodation for sin and crime ... and start dealing with the real problems. If we all want "freedom to reign" then we all must call just as loud for responsibility and accountability to reign too ... for freedom demands responsible lives and hearts out of all of us!

 

[Dieter the Brock]

By all accounts the Rams organization is courting controversy this year and they are unapologetic in their attempts to make the franchise socially relevant - it is working to a degree.... lots of people are talking about the Rams who otherwise would not be (M Sam + Hands Up gesture) but at the same time it has taken away from the 52-0 beat down we put on the Oakland Schroeders last week -- so it is a double edged sword for this team

I'd rather be known for something like the Greatest Show on Turf or Flipper Anderson going ape shit

Personally I think we need to see more hands up gestures, but from the Refs signalling TD
The more wins we get the more popular this team becomes and the less effort this organization needs to put in to scouring the headlines for controversy

 

[LesBaker]

Well..........I have a problem with it.

Do that shit on your time, when you aren't at work. Have any opinion you want. But try to get the fucking facts straight before you form that opinion.

I'm upset with them for not knowing what happened. He didn't have his hands up, we know that for a fact from witnesses. Using that gesture supports and continues a lie.

They don't have the fucking right to do that on Kroenke's dime. Want to support the community??? How about you donate a game check? You're worth millions! How about putting one of those broken and burned out businesses back together again you can easily afford it? Want to show support? How about if you take your ass to Ferguson and DO SOMETHING. I mean something that doesn't further the lies and stirs more violence because that's exactly what that shit did.

They didn't do ANYTHING to help the situation while saying they did it to help........LOL whatever.

This was an idiots move and they deserve the backlash. They should be embarrassed and if one of them was my son I'd be disappointed in him.

Learn the facts at least........don't be so fucking lazy about it. I'm proactively annoyed by this. I'll get over it and I don't hate them but I am annoyed by this.

 

[Prime Time]

http://chicagosuntimes.com/sports/mike-ditka-weighs-in-on-ferguson/

Mike Ditka weighs in:

Before Sunday’s game, five St. Louis Rams players took the field in a “hands up, don’t shoot” solidarity protest for Ferguson and Michael Brown.

Neither the NFL nor the Rams penalized the players for their actions. When asked if they should have, Mike Ditka said:

“It’s a shame this thing has come to this,” Ditka told the Chicago Sun-Times for his weekly feature column. “The shame of it is, I’m not sure they care about Michael Brown or anything else. This was a reason to protest and to go out and loot. Is this the way to celebrate the memory of Michael Brown? Is this an excuse to be lawless? Somebody has to tell me that. I don’t understand it.

I understand what the Rams’ take on this was. I’m embarrassed for the players more than anything. They want to take a political stand on this? Well, there are a lot of other things that have happened in our society that people have not stood up and disagreed about.

“I wasn’t in Ferguson. I don’t know exactly what happened. But I know one thing: If we dismantle and limit the power of our policemen any more than we have already, then we’re going to have a lot of problems in this country.

“What do you do if someone pulls a gun on you or is robbing a store and you stop them? I don’t want to hear about this hands-up crap. That’s not what happened. I don’t know exactly what did happen, but I know that’s not what happened. This policeman’s life is ruined. Why? Because we have to break somebody down. Because we have to even out the game. I don’t know. I don’t get it. Maybe I’m just old fashioned.”

 

[Boffo97]

They don't have the freaking right to do that on Kroenke's dime.

I basically agree with everything you said, but the fact that the Rams chose not to punish the involved players did mean in this case they had the right.

It also means the Rams come off as endorsing what was done... which is why certain people are upset.