Not impressed with the hands up BS displayed by the Rams WRs

[HX76]

wasnt the sunday sport was it?

Ha Ha how do you know what my favourite publication is??!

 

[Robocop]

Wrong.
There is a huge difference between the "protesters", who the WRs were supporting, and the "rioters" who are causing all the damage.

Why is it so hard for people to make this simple distinction?

when you have Brown's father and freakin Al Sharpton at a podium yelling the fight is not over and justice will be served then put their hands in the air it's pretty simple. they don't care about credible witness reports or forensic evidence or the grand jury's verdict. they only care a black kid was shot by a white cop. so when the players walk out on the field like that guess what myself and everyone else is thinking? that they don't care about the outcome or the evidence (if they even pay attention to know about it) cus if they did they wouldn't be using that gesture. if they wanted to show support then ppl here have already mentioned plenty of other neutral unbiased ways to show it

 

[Thordaddy]

That's the problem. There isn't a time to represent themselves. I guarantee you that if they commented on the issue on Twitter or whatever during even the offseason, they'd still be slammed by people who would say that they're representing the Rams at that moment. No matter what side they would have chosen or when and where they decided to show their opinion, they'd still get slammed, so why not do it during a game if you're going to get grief for it anyway?

Well maybe in your mind but not in actuality , as 503 says , they have plenty of time on their own and as I said they weren't entitled to the forum they availed themselves of to make the statement. It would be completely possible if they did what they did in their off time the Rams could merely say that what they said and did was personal opinion and as long as it was peaceful they had that right and anyone who projected their opinions on the Rams was doing just that.

I have said from the beginning this is a case of BOTH sides (as in the black community and the white police, and make no mistake those are the sides of this argument and the political asshats who try to make points for their parties ONLY make the problem worse) are projecting, again that their is truth in the paranoia they both feel towards the other, but that the fact that they are paranoid doesn't mean there is no one after them, but using unproven allegations to take violent action does more to prove the other sides paranoia than establish their own as founded. IOW white cop shoots black kid ...black community in way too large a part assumes it was racially motivated and militants riot and burn establishing the connection that Mike Brown would be among those acting violently if it had been another guy killed.

No matter how this eventuates the divide between the police and the people who need a strong police presence in their town are the ones who will continue to suffer. The threat of what has happened the eruption of emotion and violence over this shooting MAKE NO MISTAKE is omnipresent in the minds of white cops tasked with policing black neighborhoods, I've had so many conversations with white cops about this over the thirty five years I owned a manufacturing facility in a black neighborhood I can honestly say that most white cops bend over backwards to avoid having to arrest black people , I said MOST because I am equally sure that there are racist zealots among white cops unfortunately there is so much profit to be made in continuing the GENERAL acrimony between the sides that situations like this recruit constituency for both sides,so I think the answer really lies in people recognizing what they have themselves to gain for themselves and their community. The good citizens of Ferguson are locked away in their houses afraid to come out held prisoner by the violent protesters, their business district is devastated , they are being more personally harmed by that than anyone at this point.

Like Mac says it's damned Gordian Knot. I don't have THE answer, but I do have AN answer and it is this. we need to end our war on drugs,it has become and I'm not completely sure it wasn't always a war on brown people, if you want to see who a war is on look at the prisoners of that war.

It has left the black and Hispanic communities in this country with a high percentage of ex -cons SO MUCH SO that it has exported prison culture and gangs to their neighborhoods and culture . Tasking the police with waging that war has brought those communities with those high % of former inmates in constant natural enmity and because people will always want to do drugs and are sold thereby on the concept that it's not anyone elses business will naturally see those prosecuting that war as oppressors and FWIW has done more to lower the general public's esteem for the police than anything I know of . I mean honestly , does anyone who knows anything about the drug culture in this country not figure that there is some connection between the allegation that Mike Brown was the guy doing the strong arm robbery and WHAT he was supposedly stealing? Blounts and for what?

We in the sixties generation called them pigs and it has gone downhill steadily since then.
Rightly or wrongly Darren Wilson was doing his job that is the only fact I know to be completely true, a job that PITS him and the community he needs to serve in far too adversarial a way, the rest depends on our own POV and what we choose to believe.
I digressed way too far and MODS if you want to delete this post feel free ,I just thought I had to say it.

Whatever the truth is I hope it becomes apparent , but back to these players ,I find some of the comments somewhat cowardly as in it's too dangerous to go down there NOW, huh? Sounds to me like a guy seeing a drowning man and saying "hey man if you can get into shallow water I'll pull ya out but I might drown if I come out there".

If the whole Rams team goes down to Ferguson and does the hands up on their time it's not my business and I know I make my connection to the Rams on a purely emotional level ,but when they did what they did during the part of the whole connection team /players/ fans they FORCED us to accept or reject their actions if we had any opinion at all, they drove a wedge between the good fans of that team and that wasn't what they were being paid to do.Up until that point I was proud of the aid the Rams had given to the kids of Ferguson and was certain the team was striving to be supportive without judgement ,which in the end I suppose is where we all should be, inserting this makes far too many people demand an answer from the Rams and the league on an issue that they have little control over nor ability to speak upon with authority,it was bad form and were they my employees they would be sanctioned in some way ,it truly was conduct detrimental to the continuing good will of far too many people not to be. I have said it before ,this thread proves that,unfortunately. The league deciding not to fine or come out with a position on this is eroding an already shaky confidence in it's leadership, which is never good even if we end up with Goodells head on a spike much of the confidence will still be lost.
Hopefully this is my last post on this subject ,I know people are dug in on their positions about this and I'm preaching to the choir in large part , I need another game/win we all do to get this off the front page it's definitely not uniting us.

 

[Boffo97]

Saying you're sorry someone was offended is the most non-apology apology ever.

http://thebiglead.com/2014/12/01/st...ffer-on-apology-for-players-hands-up-gesture/

Yesterday, the spokesperson for the St. Louis Police Officers Association demanded that the Rams players who participated in the “Hands Up” Gesture in support of Ferguson protesters be punished. The team and the league both stated that there would be no punishment for the players expressing their views. But, according to the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, the vice president of football operations, Kevin Demoff, offered an apology for the actions.

This comes from a memo from St. Louis County Police Chief Jon Belmar sent to his staff on Monday evening, cited by the Post-Dispatch:

I received a very nice call this morning from Mr. Kevin Demoff of the St. Louis Rams who wanted to take the opportunity to apologize to our department on behalf of the Rams for the “Hands Up” gesture that some players took the field with yesterday.

Mr. Demoff clearly regretted that any members of the Ram’s organization would act in a way that minimized the outstanding work that police officers and departments carry out each and every day. My impression of the call was that it was heartfelt and I assured him that I would share it with my staff.

However, according to Nick Wagoner of ESPN, Demoff denies ever apologizing for the players’ actions, and disputes the nature of any construed apology.

“At no time in any of the conversations did I apologize for the actions of our players.” — Kevin Demoff to me just a moment ago.

— Nick Wagoner (@nwagoner) December 2, 2014

Demoff said he expressed remorse about how the actions of the players were construed but did not apologize for the actions themselves.

— Nick Wagoner (@nwagoner) December 2, 2014

My take–and I was suspicious of this before the Demoff statements came out since the original report had no quote or confirmation from him–is that this is an “I’m sorry you feel that way and were upset” situation that was then taken as an apology.

UPDATE: Here is the statement posted to Facebook by St. Louis County PD:

Regarding statements on an “apology” from Rams COO Kevin Demoff:

Chief Belmar was contacted today by St. Louis Rams COO Kevin Demoff. The Chief never asked for anyone from the Rams to contact him. He said the conversation was pleasant. The Chief sent an email to his police staff and used the word “apologized.” Mr. Demoff is quoted in the St. Louis Post Dispatch story saying “I expressed to both of them that I felt badly that our players’ support of the community was taken as disrespectful to law enforcement.” He further stated “I regretted any offense the officer’s may have taken.”

Even though Mr. Demoff stated he never apologized, the Chief believed it to be an apology and the Chief sent the email to police staff to let them know about the call, after he told Mr. Demoff he would share his sentiments with his staff.

I will also just leave this here without comment.

Apology: “expression of regret for not being able to do something” @kdemoff: “I regretted any offense their officers may have taken.”

— St. Louis County PD (@stlcountypd) December 2, 2014
​

 

[Sum1]

I find it absolutely ridiculous how Nick Wagoner is ok with dissecting and digging into one statement to find a deeper meaning while taking another at face value...especially since the one he took at face value was that the players only made the gesture as support for the community, when everyone knows what the hands up symbolizes.

 

[Stranger]

Constitutional freedom of speech really isn't part of the conversation here.

axtually, the nfl is a nonprofit, which is a creation of the state, so this is not necessarily a cut n dry issue.

 

[Stranger]

Quite strange coming into work this morning on the train and looking over people's shoulders whilst they read their newspapers and seeing a picture of the Rams. That really doesn't happen very often in the newspapers over here. Just a shame it wasn't an article waxing lyrical about the 52-0 win.

betcha we grew our fanbase on sumday.

 

[Boffo97]

axtually, the nfl is a nonprofit, which is a creation of the state, so this is not necessarily a cut n dry issue.

I think we had this argument before and it went nowhere.

Basically, I strongly believe that freedom of speech only enables one to say what they want (within certain limits, such as no slander and no deliberately causing panic) without fear of reprisal from the government. It does not and cannot enable you to say whatever you want on someone else's property or while in their employ without fear of repercussion from the owner/employer of the property.

If you disagree, that's fine.

betcha we grew our fanbase on sumday.

Not sure we did. I think it's more likely that more people who sympathize with law enforcement personnel would now stop watching the Rams (I know of at least one who has said so) than people protesting the Ferguson decision that would suddenly like football and/or the Rams who didn't before.

 

[-X-]

Now the police department is playing message board semantics with the word "apology" after KD said he didn't apologize?
This is becoming juvenile now.

 

[Boffo97]

Now the police department is playing message board semantics with the word "apology" after KD said he didn't apologize?
This is becoming juvenile now.

I posted that in another thread (maybe we need to consolidate the threads on this?).

Basically, it boils down to the difference between "I'm sorry we did what we did" and "I'm sorry you were offended by what we did". Huge difference IMO.

 

[-X-]

I posted that in another thread (maybe we need to consolidate the threads on this?).

Basically, it boils down to the difference between "I'm sorry we did what we did" and "I'm sorry you were offended by what we did". Huge difference IMO.

Sorry, didn't see that you posted it.
It's just silly. When I first saw that on TV, I immediately thought of zn trying to win an argument. lol.

 

[Ramhusker]

I'm sorry that we have been subjected to this sorriness. Sorry.

 

[Thordaddy]

axtually, the nfl is a nonprofit, which is a creation of the state, so this is not necessarily a cut n dry issue.

Are you sure they are a non profit i.e. c3 staus or a sub S corporation or partnership where "profits" are taxed at the team level . Because tax law has classifications doesn't constitute them being state entities.
That's always been a red herring that somehow the NFL wasn't "taxed" it just isn't taxed twice the profits are taxed at team level and it's dishonest to claim they are not .

 

[RamzFanz]

I'm sorry that we have been subjected to this sorriness. Sorry.

I apologize if anyone feels sorry for being subjected to this sorriness.

 

[Boffo97]

I'm sorry that we have been subjected to this sorriness. Sorry.

I apologize if anyone feels sorry for being subjected to this sorriness.

What sorry posts.

No, that was mean. I'm sorry.

 

[-X-]

Not sure we did. I think it's more likely that more people who sympathize with law enforcement personnel would now stop watching the Rams (I know of at least one who has said so) than people protesting the Ferguson decision that would suddenly like football and/or the Rams who didn't before.

I think there's a natural ebb and flow to the fanbase when these social issues intrude upon their football viewing experiences. You lose a few, you gain a few. Then the few you lost come back because the social issue has passed, and the few you gained realize they don't care about football as much as the social issue, and leave.

 

[Ramhusker]

I think there's a natural ebb and flow to the fanbase when these social issues intrude upon their football viewing experiences. You lose a few, you gain a few. Then the few you lost come back because the social issue has passed, and the few you gained realize they don't care about football as much as the social issue, and leave.

Isn't that the case in all things? Same as it ever was.

 

[Thordaddy]

http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2014/01/nfl-tax-exempt/

 

[Thordaddy]

I think there's a natural ebb and flow to the fanbase when these social issues intrude upon their football viewing experiences. You lose a few, you gain a few. Then the few you lost come back because the social issue has passed, and the few you gained realize they don't care about football as much as the social issue, and leave.

I think there is truth to that, my biggest concern on that front is how it can effect re-location issues, having the police and the team at loggerheads can't enhance a cities ability to keep a team . I think you already said that though.

 

[Ramhusker]

http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2014/01/nfl-tax-exempt/

Ah, you have let the cat out of the bag.