Raheem Morris discussion thread

[Kupped]

Again wrong change the the defensive scheme and you will get a better offense. Give the offense a chance give them the same possessions they typically get or should get. Mcvay needs to change it up too they have there own issues all 3 phase right now but more has to do with the defense.

Offense ranked where?
Defense ranked where?

Enough said
Both units need help defense more

The offense produced 13 points for the opposition.
Special Teams produced 6 for the opposition.
19 points.
The defense gave up 17.

Against Tennessee, the defense was VERY good.
Offense spotted them 14.

There’s no argument on where the majority of the blame lies in those games.

Sorry.. silly argument.

 

[payote75]

The offense produced 13 points for the opposition.
Special Teams produced 6 for the opposition.
19 points.
The defense gave up 17.

Against Tennessee, the defense was VERY good.
Offense spotted them 14.

There’s no argument on where the majority of the blame lies in those games.

Sorry.. silly argument.

Nothing is black and white get inside the numbers geezez.

Again offense ranked where?

Defense ranked where?

 

[Kupped]

Nothing is black and white get inside the numbers geezez.

Again offense ranked where?

Defense ranked where?

Read your response here.

“Nothing is black and white”

But you point you season rankings?

Without points from the offense & special teams, the D is giving up 6th fewest points in the NFL.

Offense is 8th in points scored.

But.. go on…

 

[Kupped]

Little more…
Defense had 2 stops after turnovers (2FGs).
Offense failed to capitalize on turnover (FG).

 

[Riverumbbq]

When it comes to injuries, I believe the Rams offense has been more adversely affected.
When it comes to scheme, I believe the Rams defense has been affected more adversely.

The Brian Allen elbow injury early in the Titans game had a big effect on Stafford, his 5 sacks, and the OL. Against the 49'ers, Woods was now on IR and Allen was still suffering noticeably. The Rams had lost their blocking TE a month prior. In a span of under 2 weeks Stafford lost receivers Jacob Harris, DeSean Jackson, Ben Skowronek & Robert Woods. Losing Mundt & Woods cost us our best blockers outside of the OL. OBJ is still learning the offensive scheme and McVay/Snead has done nothing to improve our blocking situation. I have no idea whether Stafford is suffering from any physical ailments, although he has appeared rattled these last 3 games, and the results are obvious.

I won't get into our defensive scheme riddle any further as its been well evaluated by many already, and I might agree that Morris is in over his head and poor at making proper adjustments. Our defense unable to get off the field has turned our T.O.P. upside down, they get worn down and our offense isn't getting as many opportunities. Snead answered the Hollins injury by spending a good deal of 2022 draft capital for Von Miller, not a move I would have made, but it's now behind us. How the Rams are using their ILB'ers, DB's & DE's this season is a mystery for me, and I blame/credit McVay as well as Morris for this conundrum I'm facing.

Special Teams following our last draft was thought to be on the upswing, but we didn't acquire a quality return specialist and this unit was hit hard by injuries. It will be interesting to see if DeCamillus will get the ax or whether he can survive it.

jmo.

 

[payote75]

Read your response here.

“Nothing is black and white”

But you point you season rankings?

Without points from the offense & special teams, the D is giving up 6th fewest points in the NFL.

Offense is 8th in points scored.

But.. go on…

Offense = entirety
Defense = entirety

You can play with the pick and choose numbers arrange them to suit you but the defense is like 21st in the league. So yes not everything is black and white but we are talking units as a whole.

And again the offense does have some issues mcvay has issues. Have played ehh offensively they still put up 28 points in GB. That's with all the issues they had. They were never going to go 17-0!!! However we expected a drop in defensive rank but not 1st to 21st with essentially the same players. Factoring in our fa losses. Maybe go from 1st to 12th if that.

 

[WarnerToBruce]

Polls are about opinions.

The number about pick-6s is a fact.

True, but as is the case with many facts, it needs to be interpreted with context.

The pick-6 thrown directly into Higbee's hands, and for no reason on Earth ends up in our end zone? Is that the same as the one he threw last Sunday? Or how about the one he SHOULD have thrown, but was dropped by the DB? Worth nothing?

Facts are handy, but you need far more information and good judgement to put them to good use.

My judgement tells me that the defensive framework is more detrimental than Stafford's play. That Stafford is better than Goff. That Stafford can play better. That Stafford WILL play better as he gets more time in this offense and the defense gels.

Only time will tell.

 

[Kupped]

Offense = entirety
Defense = entirety

You can play with the pick and choose numbers arrange them to suit you but the defense is like 21st in the league. So yes not everything is black and white but we are talking units as a whole.

And again the offense does have some issues mcvay has issues. Have played ehh offensively they still put up 28 points in GB. That's with all the issues they had. They were never going to go 17-0!!! However we expected a drop in defensive rank but not 1st to 21st with essentially the same players. Factoring in our fa losses. Maybe go from 1st to 12th if that.

You’re literally picking me stay… yardage.. and calling it “entirety.”

I just gave you the reality of where they stand in scoring defense… and that isn’t part of the “entirety.”

I have no idea why you want to pretend that the offense hasn’t been spotting other teams the lead.

 

[Kupped]

True, but as is the case with many facts, it needs to be interpreted with context.

The pick-6 thrown directly into Higbee's hands, and for no reason on Earth ends up in our end zone? Is that the same as the one he threw last Sunday? Or how about the one he SHOULD have thrown, but was dropped by the DB? Worth nothing?

Facts are handy, but you need far more information and good judgement to put them to good use.

My judgement tells me that the defensive framework is more detrimental than Stafford's play. That Stafford is better than Goff. That Stafford can play better. That Stafford WILL play better as he gets more time in this offense and the defense gels.

Only time will tell.

That’s why I say “offense” and not “Stafford.”

My judgement AND STATISTCS, show me you lose the vast majority of times when you give up point-producing turnovers.

We’re not talking about turnovers late in the game because the offense is taking risks to make up a deficit created by the D… we’re talking about point-producing turnovers in the first quarter.

 

[payote75]

You’re literally picking me stay… yardage.. and calling it “entirety.”

I just gave you the reality of where they stand in scoring defense… and that isn’t part of the “entirety.”

I have no idea why you want to pretend that the offense hasn’t been spotting other teams the lead.

Part the picture try painting the other parts! Some of the story not all of the story. Part of the equation only. Not sure he sum of all parts.

Parte di la storia non e tutta

ein Teil der Geschichte nicht die ganze Geschichte

osa tarinaa, ei koko tarina

del zgodbe ne vse zgodbe

Should I go another language???

Just leave it at agree to disagree.

 

[Tano]

That’s why I say “offense” and not “Stafford.”

My judgement AND STATISTCS, show me you lose the vast majority of times when you give up point-producing turnovers.

We’re not talking about turnovers late in the game because the offense is taking risks to make up a deficit created by the D… we’re talking about point-producing turnovers in the first quarter.

We get it - Offensive Turnovers that turn into easy points means a win for the other team the majority of the time

However, the Defense giving opponents TOP that is almost double the offense TOP in the last few games is ridiculous and is not helping the team win either.

I am saying it is a team loss - I can't blame the offense even though they did give other teams a huge advantage.

But if our defense had done a few 3 and outs, I think we come back and win those games because Stafford has shown with enough possessions he can get the offense into the end zone.

It may take a few series but I believe in Stafford.

 

[FarNorth]

Sure.
Haven't seen anyone who's on the "fire Morris" train acknowledge the plain reality of these statistics.

It's not an opinion, it's a fact of the game, that you end up losing 8 out of 10 times in the NFL when you give up a pick-6 or equivalent. Add in even more points given up by the offense and the odds get even worse.

So.. it's actually an unbroken record.. because the factual basis for this argument profoundly beats out any of the "but I don't like his defensive scheme" arguments when it comes to recent losses.

Of course turnovers, especially pick sixes, are terrible and a recipe for losing. We're giving them up and not getting them. But it's more than that.

Rams are built to play downhill on both sides of the ball to win. Downfield passing attack on O, rushing the passer on D. Right now we can't do either. We have an offense and defense which are mismatched and making each other worse.

The offense is not generating the early leads the Rams need to force the other team to play catch up and throw the ball into our strength which is the pass rush. We can score on big plays, but not well enough to "dictate" to defenses schemed up to stop the downfield passing attack. The offense also isn't scoring either consistently or often enough to come from behind. It can't reliably hold on to the ball, can't sustain drives, can't or won't consistently run the ball, doesn't have a coherent short passing game, and has had plenty of three and outs.

The defense is not terrible. It is not giving up massive amounts of points. However it is consistently giving up clock eating sustained drives which are terrible when you're behind. It isn't making stops when we really need them--- such as at the beginning of the third quarter against the Packers. It isn't forcing many turnovers and even fewer when we really need them. It isn't empowering the strength of the team, which is the pass rush. It is enabling opposing offenses to play keep away from our offense and pick on weak spots in our own scheme. It is making our offense even more desperate and disjointed.

Rams have lost control not just of time of possession but of any semblance of an effective overall game strategy. They need changes in approach on both sides of the ball to regain their mojo.

 

[Mikey Ram]

Na man sorry

'I'm not picking on anybody, but I just think this horse is dead and the carcass is really starting to smell...Obviously you're both entrenched and are not going to change your perspective...That's fine and good and one of the things that makes this forum great...I'll follow my own advice and just not read any more of this thread, it's beginning to irritate me a bit, and I'm sure that's on me...

 

[Mikey Ram]

'I'm not picking on anybody, but I just think this horse is dead and the carcass is really starting to smell...Obviously you're both entrenched and are not going to change your perspective...That's fine and good and one of the things that makes this forum great...I'll follow my own advice and just not read any more of this thread, it's beginning to irritate me a bit, and I'm sure that's on me...

I guess if it irritated me that's my problem...Sorry to be kind of snarky

 

[payote75]

'I'm not picking on anybody, but I just think this horse is dead and the carcass is really starting to smell...Obviously you're both entrenched and are not going to change your perspective...That's fine and good and one of the things that makes this forum great...I'll follow my own advice and just not read any more of this thread, it's beginning to irritate me a bit, and I'm sure that's on me...

Yes please we don't want you irritated.

 

[payote75]

I guess if it irritated me that's my problem...Sorry to be kind of snarky

Indeed it is....my apologies though

 

[Kupped]

We get it - Offensive Turnovers that turn into easy points means a win for the other team the majority of the time

However, the Defense giving opponents TOP that is almost double the offense TOP in the last few games is ridiculous and is not helping the team win either.

I am saying it is a team loss - I can't blame the offense even though they did give other teams a huge advantage.

But if our defense had done a few 3 and outs, I think we come back and win those games because Stafford has shown with enough possessions he can get the offense into the end zone.

It may take a few series but I believe in Stafford.

Lol..
the defense did!!!
The two FGs after turnovers!!!
They forced 5 punts!!!
Stafford has shown he could turn the ball over again!

At some point.. the “what might happen” needs to step aside for the “what actually happened.”

And what happened is the offense lost those games.

 

[Kupped]

I guess if it irritated me that's my problem...Sorry to be kind of snarky

Meh… I’m irritating.

 

[1maGoh]

No.

Because I’m not debating whether the defensive scheme needs adjustments. It does.

I’m talking about what the bigger problems are for this team. It’s the offense and turnovers right now.

I think people want to fire Morris because he's never been successful. The debate in the thread is: should we fire Morris? You're having your own little sub-debate about what the bigger problem is. That's cool. I don't think anyone has an issue with having that debate. However, the question is should we fire Morris. The defense is deeply flawed. It's not as big of a problem right now as the offense and special teams are. But earlier in the season it was and if the offense ever figures itself out it will be. So the question stands. Do we need to fire Morris to fix the defense? I would say that given that he's never been successful before as a DC, he probably won't suddenly start being successful here mid-season or next year. He didn't have a background in the defense the team publicly stated it wants to run and it shows. He wasn't good with the defense he knows. He isn't good with the defense he doesn't know. There's absolutely no reason to suspect he will get better. Should we keep someone around that isn't good now and won't get better? I don't think we should.

The offense on the other hand... We've seen McVay be successful. We've seen him scheme well. He's been, arguably, the best at what he does before. He had effectively used the talent at his disposal to put this team in a great position. If we stick with him, he might get back to what he's done before. I would even say it's likely. We just have to be patient.

Special teams is having problems because of the way we built the roster. McVay doesn't seem to prioritize special teams guys at the bottom of the roster. Our special teams were good under Fisher because they were more important to him than a competent offense (only a mild exaggeration). They were good when McVay started because he had leftovers from Fisher. I fully believe Snead and McVay can figure that out and fix it, given enough time.

So let's recap.
Offense: scheme is jacked up and causing problems, but we can reasonably have faith that the coach will fix it

Special teams: talent is jacked up and causing major problems. We can reasonably have faith that the GM and coach will fix it.

Defense: scheme is jacked up causing moderate problems. There is absolutely no reasonable hope for the current coach to fix it.

So what's a fan to do in this circumstance? I'm my opinion, and it sounds like a lot of other fans agree, you be patient with offense and special teams and lament about how the DC needs to be fired.

The defense isn't the biggest problem. It is being run in a way that is the opposite of synergistic with the offense. I don't know what the word is for that. The offense is super messed up right now and that's exacerbated by the way the defense is being run. Is it the defense's fault the offense is sucking so hard? No, but it is actively creating conditions that make the recovery of the offense harder. We know the offensive coaching is capable of high level performance. We also know the defensive coaching hasn't yet ever shown that it is capable of high level performance. The call to replace the defensive coaching with someone who can at least not be an obstacle to the offense's recovery makes sense. It sure as shit won't fix the offense and the offensive coaches will have to deliver, but it makes sense to believe they can.

 

[Mackeyser]

There’s also zero discussion crediting the defense for two stops after turnovers deep in Rams territory.

No credit for good plays/possessions… only blame for bad ones.

That’s not a good faith discussion.

That's in large part because of the field position. You can't play 10 yards off a receiver when snapping from the 8 yard line. Morris ends up a beneficiary of the collapsed field.

If the scheme were as effective as they can be in the red zone, we wouldn't see these 18 play drives.

That's the point... the scheme just doesn't work. The fact that players can make plays when the scheme can't take them out of the play as easily just means we have much better players and the scheme is holding them back.