OLD THREAD-Trade (speculation) Matt Stafford

[Merlin]

My point? If you have a good young QB on a cheap contract you have a better shot to win and rinse repeat every 5 years. Have a QB in the wings so you don’t spend on that 2nd contract to a QB. Easier said then done of course....and please mention Brady cuz he screws up my point lol

Yes and teams are in that mindset now too I think. They all want the young QB the problem is there aren't enough of them who can live up to the current NFL model of reading a full field along with accurate identification of threats at the LOS. By the time they get it they're close to contract and all pissy and want more money too.

But if you change the model things look different. If the model is reading half a field with schemed movement and boots and misdirection and all that (a lot of which we've been doing anyway btw) and you add QB runs and steal from that NCAA solution all of a sudden there are more QB options to go around. Which means more competition and happier fans overall. And happier owners.

The NFL IMO has been reluctant to go full into all that. The game is changing but it's gonna change a lot more.

 

[jrry32]

There are things that translate. Organizations are going to find solutions to problems in creative ways. The college game's solution to the NFL poaching their QBs was to open the game up spread it out and use athletic ability. The NFL has gotten themselves into a situation where QBs are paid so much due to the extreme difficulty of what defenses present at that level. So the creative adjustment will apply to that model in the same way.

The NFL's future is athleticism and point-guard distribution of the ball to playmakers. McVay is going to be in tune with that and I think he'll take it a next step with a model that allows for less QB position investment.

If I'm wrong and he doesn't that's ok someone else will. But I think there are indicators McVay is looking that route now and if he makes it work teams are going to follow because he's a rock star.

That's already the NFL's present. The problem is that while there are plenty of guys who have the athleticism, there aren't many who can distribute the ball well enough at the NFL level. We saw Asshole Face try it with Taysom Hill. It didn't go particularly well. Now, rumors are that they're going to move forward with Jameis, not Taysom, after Drew's retirement.

 

[Dodgersrf]

Who said anything about a completely different scheme. We saw RPO the moment Wolford went in there. We saw designed runs too. McVay wants that in HIS offense and that's a good thing.

If he's lucky he'll get Watson and can use that stuff sparingly because Watson can win from the pocket. But it's gonna be part of his offense moving forward.

Reason I think we draft a QB at this point is because as I review things and look at the options that is the best place to get a QB for the least bang for your buck. Let's say it's Mond. Draft him and sit him on the depth chart while we roll with Wolford or Perkins (whoever wins from them and any middling vets they bring in). Endure a season of heavy ball control and ground game with a little razzle dazzle off play action. Then either move Mond into the role or draft a QB if he or Perkins hasn't shown enough growth.

If McVay is set on installing RPOs into our Offense, I sure don't want to see Watson or Goff doing it.
It's fun, but a fun way of getting your qb beat up as well.

If you want to run some packages with a guy like Wolford? Similar to what NO does with Hill?
I'd be ok with that.

 

[OldSchool]

All I can be is me. Blind loyalty to any player has never been my thing. I want the team to win and I don’t have confidence that Goff is our guy. If he is out there in a Rams uniform - I’ll be cheering for him. But when we all play armchair GM - I’m gonna call it like I see it.

Who's blindly loyal to a player? You really don't read what people other than those bashing Goff are saying do you?

 

[jrry32]

My point? If you have a good young QB on a cheap contract you have a better shot to win and rinse repeat every 5 years. Have a QB in the wings so you don’t spend on that 2nd contract to a QB. Easier said then done of course....and please mention Brady cuz he screws up my point lol

There aren't enough good QBs to go around. If you're wrong about the young QB waiting in the wings, it's career suicide. And if you're actually good with your rookie contract QB, you're not going to be in a good position to pick his successor.

Yes and teams are in that mindset now too I think. They all want the young QB the problem is there aren't enough of them who can live up to the current NFL model of reading a full field along with accurate identification of threats at the LOS. By the time they get it they're close to contract and all pissy and want more money too.

But if you change the model things look different. If the model is reading half a field with schemed movement and boots and misdirection and all that (a lot of which we've been doing anyway btw) and you add QB runs and steal from that NCAA solution all of a sudden there are more QB options to go around. Which means more competition and happier fans overall. And happier owners.

The NFL IMO has been reluctant to go full into all that. The game is changing but it's gonna change a lot more.

Again, there are fundamental differences between the NFL and college. The biggest difference is the athletes in the NFL. In college, if you have a QB who runs a 4.5 40, he's one of the most athletic guys on the field. So you can get away with him being a more limited passer because it's very hard for defenses to contain his running. In the NFL, there are too many athletes. This year, when we had Hollins and Floyd on the field, we had two EDGE guys who ran 4.5s with a DT who ran a 4.6. Defenses have the athleticism to contain those sorts of QBs.

So to counter that, you either need a QB who can win from the pocket or a QB who is such a freak athlete that defenses struggle to contain him. Lamar Jackson is an example of that sort of rare athlete at QB. But Lamar is actually a solid passer too. Speaking frankly, there just aren't many guys at QB who have that sort of athleticism. And of those guys, most are very limited passers. It's why defenses caught up to RGIII, Kaepernick, and even Kyler Murray and Cam Newton to some degree. Hell, the Patriots tried what you're proposing with Cam Newton this year. We saw the results.

 

[UKram]

Is it? Where are the staunch Blythe defenders.

Yawn .... dude come on ... how many times have you seen someone in the GDT .. team out goff compared to Blythe ... where are the threads related to Blythe ...

 

[OldSchool]

Yawn .... dude come on ... how many times have you seen someone in the GDT .. team out goff compared to Blythe ... where are the threads related to Blythe ...

He's just playing little games.

 

[jrry32]

It was a response to a comparison of Stafford and Goffs playoffs stats this year. So yeah - I went there.

Let me go there too. Goff is currently ranked #3 in playoff passer rating this year. Stafford, meanwhile, has never won a playoff game and hasn't been to the playoffs since 2016 season. What do I win?

 

[ottoman89]

Yawn .... dude come on ... how many times have you seen someone in the GDT .. team out goff compared to Blythe ... where are the threads related to Blythe ...

There's been plenty of people calling out Blythe as well. But not everyone watches the C every play.

And i'm sure there's no thread because
a) he's a FA
b) he's not making a boatload of money

 

[OldSchool]

Let me go there too. Goff is currently ranked #3 in playoff passer rating this year. Stafford, meanwhile, has never won a playoff game and hasn't been to the playoffs since 2016 season. What do I win?

Being called childish names for pointing out that Jared has in fact done good things even in this year where he's supposedly the only reason we ever lost games.

 

[UKram]

There's been plenty of people calling out Blythe as well. But not everyone watches the C every play.

And i'm sure there's no thread because
a) he's a FA
b) he's not making a boatload of money

People have called out Blythe .. I have on occasion ... but that’s not what I was refuting..


deleted edit .. addressed further down thread

 

[Merlin]

There aren't enough good QBs to go around. If you're wrong about the young QB waiting in the wings, it's career suicide. And if you're actually good with your rookie contract QB, you're not going to be in a good position to pick his successor.

Again, there are fundamental differences between the NFL and college. The biggest difference is the athletes in the NFL. In college, if you have a QB who runs a 4.5 40, he's one of the most athletic guys on the field. So you can get away with him being a more limited passer because it's very hard for defenses to contain his running. In the NFL, there are too many athletes. This year, when we had Hollins and Floyd on the field, we had two EDGE guys who ran 4.5s with a DT who ran a 4.6. Defenses have the athleticism to contain those sorts of QBs.

So to counter that, you either need a QB who can win from the pocket or a QB who is such a freak athlete that defenses struggle to contain him. Lamar Jackson is an example of that sort of rare athlete at QB. But Lamar is actually a solid passer too. Speaking frankly, there just aren't many guys at QB who have that sort of athleticism. And of those guys, most are very limited passers. It's why defenses caught up to RGIII, Kaepernick, and even Kyler Murray and Cam Newton to some degree. Hell, the Patriots tried what you're proposing with Cam Newton this year. We saw the results.

Roman's been doing it for years. But he's not McVay. Nobody is taking enough notice.

And Roman has not required top talent to do it. Lamar Jackson is a shitty passer and is in the running for MVP because he's a freak threat on the ground. Tyrod Taylor is another shitty passer who was drafted in round 6 and had a 99 passer rating in 2015 under him in Buffalo. Kaepernick was a second round talent with all sorts of flaws and under Roman outperformed what Alex Smith had done the previous year in his offense (90 to a 98).

I'm telling you man wait and see. Let's see how things develop but half field reads and schemed runs to allow for MORE options at QB and more explosiveness and athletic ability is a trend that is going to continue and IMO McVay is gonna be riding that wave and maybe leading it.

 

[ottoman89]

People have called out Blythe .. I have on occasion ... but that’s not what I was refuting

I understand. I just wanted to voice my I think it's not as much.

 

[UKram]

I understand. I just wanted to voice my I think it's not as much.

I edited the original post so I’ll say again here go look at them post I called blatantly false and then come back to me

 

[jrry32]

Roman's been doing it for years. But he's not McVay. Nobody is taking enough notice.

And Roman has not required top talent to do it. Lamar Jackson is a shitty passer and is in the running for MVP because he's a freak threat on the ground. Tyrod Taylor is another shitty passer who was drafted in round 6 and had a 99 passer rating in 2015 under him in Buffalo. Kaepernick was a second round talent with all sorts of flaws and under Roman outperformed what Alex Smith had done the previous year in his offense (90 to a 98).

I'm telling you man wait and see. Let's see how things develop but half field reads and schemed runs to allow for MORE options at QB and more explosiveness and athletic ability is a trend that is going to continue and IMO McVay is gonna be riding that wave and maybe leading it.

Lamar Jackson isn't a shitty passer, though. Lamar Jackson would not cut the mustard with his passing if he were a pocket passer. But with his athleticism, he's more than good enough when it comes to throwing and reading defenses to do the job. It's a lot like Cam Newton in his prime. Although, I'd say Lamar is a bit more accurate than prime Cam. Of course, the problem is that in the playoffs, teams have made the Ravens pay for Lamar's limitations.

And yes, Roman pulled it off with Kaepernick and Tyrod for a time. But the NFL caught up in both cases. You're advocating for a strategy that has a shelf life and hasn't proven successful in playoff conditions. Again, the Patriots tried it this year with Cam. It severely hampered their offense.

 

[Merlin]

That "shelf life" is still going. With Jackson. And because teams are not seeing the truth of this I'll bet the Ravens pay him and at some point before his contract is done they'll end up with another young kid playing QB with fresh legs and who is probably a better passer since that wouldn't be too hard to find.

My point in all this--whether we agree or no--is that McVay is about to steal that shit, make it his own, and blaze a path of glory with it. Watch and see.

 

[jrry32]

That "shelf life" is still going. With Jackson. And because teams are not seeing the truth of this I'll bet the Ravens pay him and at some point before his contract is done they'll end up with another young kid playing QB with fresh legs and who is probably a better passer since that wouldn't be too hard to find.

My point in all this--whether we agree or no--is that McVay is about to steal that shit, make it his own, and blaze a path of glory with it. Watch and see.

Because Jackson is a rare and unique talent. I think what you're proposing could destroy the window we have. Again, how did it go for the Patriots this year?

 

[Merlin]

Because Jackson is a rare and unique talent. I think what you're proposing could destroy the window we have. Again, how did it go for the Patriots this year?

I am not proposing it. And I am not advocating it. I am simply predicting it. The signs are there.

Oh and I do think McVay can pull it off. Which is why I'm not as horrified at the thought as you are.

 

[jrry32]

I am not proposing it. And I am not advocating it. I am simply predicting it. The signs are there.

Oh and I do think McVay can pull it off. Which is why I'm not as horrified at the thought as you are.

I have a lot of faith in McVay, but I don't have that much faith in him.

 

[OregonRamsFan]

Meh on Stafford. He’s no spring chicken. I like him, but he’s no longer in his prime. I see more upside with Jared actually.