OLD THREAD-Trade (speculation) Matt Stafford

[dieterbrock]

All I can be is me. Blind loyalty to any player has never been my thing. I want the team to win and I don’t have confidence that Goff is our guy. If he is out there in a Rams uniform - I’ll be cheering for him. But when we all play armchair GM - I’m gonna call it like I see it.

And yet you’re crediting Wolford with a playoff win.
Better leave integrity off your resume because blind loyalty and blind hate are neither pretty looks

 

[Dodgersrf]

Roman's been doing it for years. But he's not McVay. Nobody is taking enough notice.

And Roman has not required top talent to do it. Lamar Jackson is a shitty passer and is in the running for MVP because he's a freak threat on the ground. Tyrod Taylor is another shitty passer who was drafted in round 6 and had a 99 passer rating in 2015 under him in Buffalo. Kaepernick was a second round talent with all sorts of flaws and under Roman outperformed what Alex Smith had done the previous year in his offense (90 to a 98).

I'm telling you man wait and see. Let's see how things develop but half field reads and schemed runs to allow for MORE options at QB and more explosiveness and athletic ability is a trend that is going to continue and IMO McVay is gonna be riding that wave and maybe leading it.

Jim Mora was the first that I remember.
He was running RPOs with Vick.
But he had Vick....so it was mostly just Rs.
That was also the first time I saw a LB set up as a Spy.

 

[ottoman89]

Jim Mora was the first that I remember.
He was running RPOs with Vick.
But he had Vick....so it was mostly just Rs.
That was also the first time I saw a LB set up as a Spy.

Wonder if they were ever ran with Randall Cunningham or QBs during that era?

 

[Dodgersrf]

Wonder if they were ever ran with Randall Cunningham or QBs during that era?

Randall ran a ton.
I just can't remember if they were actually plays to set it up, or if he just took off on his own after he got confused.

Randal was actually pretty good when he went to Minnesota.

He was out of the NFL when the Rams talked to him.
Randal wanted, something like 2 mill a year, but the Rams thought that was way too much. So he signed with Minny and had a couple good seasons.
Probably the best of his career.

 

[Merlin]

Yeah Cunningham was a trip. I think all the hype ruined him tbh. Also I forgot he even played in Minnesota.

 

[ottoman89]

Randall ran a ton.
I just can't remember if they were actually plays to set it up, or if he just took off on his own after he got confused.

Randal was actually pretty good when he went to Minnesota.

He was out of the NFL when the Rams talked to him.
Randal wanted, something like 2 mill a year, but the Rams thought that was way too much. So he signed with Minny and had a couple good seasons.
Probably the best of his career.

Yeah Cunningham was a trip. I think all the hype ruined him tbh. Also I forgot he even played in Minnesota.

I appreciate the responses. I don't remember seeing it watching him so wasn't sure!

 

[Boston Ram]

There aren't enough good QBs to go around. If you're wrong about the young QB waiting in the wings, it's career suicide. And if you're actually good with your rookie contract QB, you're not going to be in a good position to pick his successor.



Again, there are fundamental differences between the NFL and college. The biggest difference is the athletes in the NFL. In college, if you have a QB who runs a 4.5 40, he's one of the most athletic guys on the field. So you can get away with him being a more limited passer because it's very hard for defenses to contain his running. In the NFL, there are too many athletes. This year, when we had Hollins and Floyd on the field, we had two EDGE guys who ran 4.5s with a DT who ran a 4.6. Defenses have the athleticism to contain those sorts of QBs.

So to counter that, you either need a QB who can win from the pocket or a QB who is such a freak athlete that defenses struggle to contain him. Lamar Jackson is an example of that sort of rare athlete at QB. But Lamar is actually a solid passer too. Speaking frankly, there just aren't many guys at QB who have that sort of athleticism. And of those guys, most are very limited passers. It's why defenses caught up to RGIII, Kaepernick, and even Kyler Murray and Cam Newton to some degree. Hell, the Patriots tried what you're proposing with Cam Newton this year. We saw the results.

Over the last 5 years 22 QBs have been drafted in the first two rounds.

Only 8 are not starting, one is a rookie in Love, GB. And you have Winston and Marriotta who both could probably start for some teams. I count 4 busts.

So not including Love there is 16 players who are starting and that does not include Wentz who is not a starter.

16 for 22 is a pretty good hit rate at that position.

Does not seem like suicide to me. Unconventional perhaps, but someone is going to prove this right at some point.

 

[jrry32]

Over the last 5 years 22 QBs have been drafted in the first two rounds.

Only 8 are not starting, one is a rookie in Love, GB. And you have Winston and Marriotta who both could probably start for some teams. I count 4 busts.

So not including Love there is 16 players who are starting and that does not include Wentz who is not a starter.

16 for 22 is a pretty good hit rate at that position.

Does not seem like suicide to me. Unconventional perhaps, but someone is going to prove this right at some point.

You can't judge hit rate on who is starting over such a recent period. Daniel Jones is starting but has largely been a bust. The same is true of Mitch Trubisky. If we look at 2010 to 2019, we'll encounter some of those same difficulties, but it will offer better perspective:
2010:
Sam Bradford - Bust
Tim Tebow - Bust

2011:
Cam Newton - Success
Jake Locker - Bust
Blaine Gabbert - Bust
Christian Ponder - Bust

2012:
Andrew Luck - Success (but already retired)
RGIII - Bust
Ryan Tannehill - Bust and then Success
Brandon Weeden - Bust

2013:
E.J. Manuel - Bust

2014:
Blake Bortles - Bust
Johnny Manziel - Bust
Teddy Bridgewater - Minor Success

2015:
Jameis Winston - Bust
Marcus Mariota - Bust

2016:
Jared Goff - ?????
Carson Wentz - ?????
Paxton Lynch - Bust

2017:
Mitch Trubisky - Bust
Patrick Mahomes - Success
Deshaun Watson - Success

2018:
Baker Mayfield - Success
Sam Darnold - Bust
Josh Allen - Success
Josh Rosen - Bust
Lamar Jackson - Success

2019:
Kyler Murray - Success
Daniel Jones - Bust
Dwayne Haskins - Bust

The success rate really isn't great (12 out of 30, if we count Tannehill, Wentz, and Goff as successes). And that's the first round. Plus, a number of the guys named above went in the top 10 picks. If we were a successful team, it would be a real challenge for us to get into the top 10 picks to draft a QB. That's why ditching your QB at the end of his rookie deal is so hard, unless he doesn't cut the mustard.

 

[12intheBox]

Let me go there too. Goff is currently ranked #3 in playoff passer rating this year. Stafford, meanwhile, has never won a playoff game and hasn't been to the playoffs since 2016 season. What do I win?

If we keep Goff you win the same thing as the rest of us. Continued Disappointment.

Honestly - stats aren’t going to drive this for me. I - like most
of you - have watched every single snap Goff has ever taken, most of them many times.

I’m ready to move on. I hope I’m not coming across as an ass about it, although I fear I probably already have. I don’t bear any ill will towards Goff. I won’t root against him wherever he ends unless he is in the division or playing us.

This is a big decision for the franchise - like Suh Bradford, Bulger Warner, Goff Wentz - we on message boards are going to break into camps and argue about it. We are going to feel strongly about our positions in part because it is so important.

I for one - will try to be cooler about it and I hope that y’all will too.

I hope - more than anything - that the franchise makes the right decision. Then I hope that if we are switching it doesn’t cost as much as I worry it will.

 

[OldSchool]

Honestly - stats aren’t going to drive this for me. I - like most
of you - have watched every single snap Goff has ever taken, most of them many times.

The thing that most of us can't understand is how anybody thinks Stafford is even a lateral move to Goff, even Goff this year at his worst. I've yet to have anybody explain it except so say they like him more than Goff.

 

[jrry32]

If we keep Goff you win the same thing as the rest of us. Continued Disappointment.

Honestly - stats aren’t going to drive this for me. I - like most
of you - have watched every single snap Goff has ever taken, most of them many times.

I’m ready to move on. I hope I’m not coming across as an ass about it, although I fear I probably already have. I don’t bear any ill will towards Goff. I won’t root against him wherever he ends unless he is in the division or playing us.

This is a big decision for the franchise - like Suh Bradford, Bulger Warner, Goff Wentz - we on message boards are going to break into camps and argue about it. We are going to feel strongly about our positions in part because it is so important.

I for one - will try to be cooler about it and I hope that y’all will too.

I hope - more than anything - that the franchise makes the right decision. Then I hope that if we are switching it doesn’t cost as much as I worry it will.

You might describe the past four years as "continued disappointment," but I don't. I'm not old enough to have watched the Rams when they were a yearly force during the 70's. The Rams I know are the Rams that had that incredible run during the GSOT era sandwiched between extended runs of embarrassing, shit football. The Rams I know were disappointment turning to apathy during almost the entirety of my time rooting for this team. So you can shit on our run with Goff, but I have thoroughly enjoyed the last four years. I enjoyed this season. And I hope to enjoy next season.

You may not have faith in Goff. That's fine. But I have watched enough losing with this franchise to recognize that the grass isn't always greener. Jared Goff is a starting caliber QB. Jared Goff has played some great football over the past four years. I believe Goff is capable of being that guy again. I don't want this franchise dumping him and saddling us with more shitty football because it can't be patient. I have a lot of respect for McVay, but he's not infallible. I know he can win with Goff. And I'd rather keep winning.

 

[Boston Ram]

You can't judge hit rate on who is starting over such a recent period. Daniel Jones is starting but has largely been a bust. The same is true of Mitch Trubisky. If we look at 2010 to 2019, we'll encounter some of those same difficulties, but it will offer better perspective:
2010:
Sam Bradford - Bust
Tim Tebow - Bust

2011:
Cam Newton - Success
Jake Locker - Bust
Blaine Gabbert - Bust
Christian Ponder - Bust

2012:
Andrew Luck - Success (but already retired)
RGIII - Bust
Ryan Tannehill - Bust and then Success
Brandon Weeden - Bust

2013:
E.J. Manuel - Bust

2014:
Blake Bortles - Bust
Johnny Manziel - Bust
Teddy Bridgewater - Minor Success

2015:
Jameis Winston - Bust
Marcus Mariota - Bust

2016:
Jared Goff - ?????
Carson Wentz - ?????
Paxton Lynch - Bust

2017:
Mitch Trubisky - Bust
Patrick Mahomes - Success
Deshaun Watson - Success

2018:
Baker Mayfield - Success
Sam Darnold - Bust
Josh Allen - Success
Josh Rosen - Bust
Lamar Jackson - Success

2019:
Kyler Murray - Success
Daniel Jones - Bust
Dwayne Haskins - Bust

The success rate really isn't great (12 out of 30, if we count Tannehill, Wentz, and Goff as successes). And that's the first round. Plus, a number of the guys named above went in the top 10 picks. If we were a successful team, it would be a real challenge for us to get into the top 10 picks to draft a QB. That's why ditching your QB at the end of his rookie deal is so hard, unless he doesn't cut the mustard.

Why would I go back 10 years? The league has changed. That’s silly. 5 years is the time frame for when we drafted Goff.

Plus clearly your definition of bust is different than mine. Darnold and Jones can both play. Put them with McVay and they both can have success. All the other busts I agree with and now that Goff has been traded I have to halt this discussion

 

[Faceplant]

This may go down as the worst trade....

in a long time....

 

[808RAMS]

Detroit wants to trade Stafford. Should the Rams offer Wolford and a 3rd round pick? We need someone who will challenge Goff.

Prophetic!!!

 

[TXRams86]

This may go down as the worst trade....

in a long time....

Or it may not.

 

[Dodgersrf]

Prophetic!!!

Slightly off on the trade compensation.

 

[Gandalf]

Jim Mora was the first that I remember.
He was running RPOs with Vick.
But he had Vick....so it was mostly just Rs.
That was also the first time I saw a LB set up as a Spy.

Brett Favre claims he invented it.

 

[Neil039]

Yeah Cunningham was a trip. I think all the hype ruined him tbh. Also I forgot he even played in Minnesota.

He could rip that pigskin effortlessly.

 

[dieterbrock]

Brett Favre claims he invented it.

No, it wasnt the Vick Trick,
Favre thought he invented the Dick Pic

 

[Merlin]

I don't think McVay wants an older and immobile QB. I think he wants good movement in and out of the pocket and high compete, that classic WCO combo of Montana, Young, etc. That would project more to a younger QB like of course Watson or to go cheaper and risky a guy like Darnold.

I'd be very surprised if Stafford is what they're thinking of.

Feeling like Mr. Colonel Sanders here because I was wrooong again.