OLD THREAD-Trade (speculation) Matt Stafford

[FarNorth]

what is out of bounds so far here? Admittedly, I haven’t (and won’t) read the entire thread here or in any of the other 10 Goff threads - but what is the objection?

should we not be allowed to talk about the reddit rumor because of the questionable nature of its sourcing? Should we not be allowed to be critical of his play? Of his regression / lack of progression?

in the end, this is either an elaborate smoke screen or the brass really wants a change.

if it’s smoke, then it’s well done - its convincing. Hopefully it drives the price up for the 9ers or motivates Goff - or both.

if it’s real, then the people who know Goff best - the ones who see him in practice, in the film room, etc - think we would be better off with a change. If they think so, then I‘m with them- because I’m not seeing enough on Sundays to make me think they are wrong.

Allowed, maybe. I'll leave that to the moderators. But I personally don't like it. It ought to be sufficient to criticize a player for his play or his approach or his training.

By now every body also ought to get it that internet rumors, even ones with lots of credulous followers, may be complete nonsense or worse. But apparently we have not figured it out.

 

[dieterbrock]

I know I’m in the minority, but I think we looked better with the Wolf out there.

That's the rub for sure. Wolford throws a devastating INT, leads the team to a grand total of 9 points and the Rams win because the defense and folks like what they saw. Against Green Bay, Goff plays a guts game, gets the team within 7 points heading to the 4th and they lose but he's got to go...

 

[Merlin]

Cant have it both ways. If McVay wanted this completely different offense scheme from what they run with their QB, then where has it been? Why did it take Goff to get hurt before Wolford got an opportunity? You are talking out of both sides of your mouth on this, he cant possibly have this grand scheme and yet was waiting for what? Hasnt drafted a QB that fits this scheme, hasnt brought in any assistants who preach this scheme, hasnt found a play or two each game to utilize Wolford's skills, like New Orleans does or teams who have run wildcat etc.

Who said anything about a completely different scheme. We saw RPO the moment Wolford went in there. We saw designed runs too. McVay wants that in HIS offense and that's a good thing.

If he's lucky he'll get Watson and can use that stuff sparingly because Watson can win from the pocket. But it's gonna be part of his offense moving forward.

Reason I think we draft a QB at this point is because as I review things and look at the options that is the best place to get a QB for the least bang for your buck. Let's say it's Mond. Draft him and sit him on the depth chart while we roll with Wolford or Perkins (whoever wins from them and any middling vets they bring in). Endure a season of heavy ball control and ground game with a little razzle dazzle off play action. Then either move Mond into the role or draft a QB if he or Perkins hasn't shown enough growth.

 

[12intheBox]

That's the rub for sure. Wolford throws a devastating INT, leads the team to a grand total of 9 points and the Rams win because the defense and folks like what they saw. Against Green Bay, Goff plays a guts game, gets the team within 7 points heading to the 4th and they lose but he's got to go...

I have a much bigger sample size with Goff than Wolf, I’ll admit. But I’m not the only one who saw it that way, Coach McVay seems to be with me.

 

[Merlin]

I have not had that sense of clarity

I think Stafford would be a big upgrade, myself. And honestly, if we can rid ourselves of Goffs contract and replace him with a JAG who is paid like a JAG, I think we may be better off.

I just don’t believe in him.

I want to - I have tried to get behind him - I have tried to like him. I just don’t. I think he is holding us back.

I know I’m in the minority, but I think we looked better with the Wolf out there.

I'm not quite at that point with Goff. I think he might be salvageable. But his game is not good right now and I think it's very risky to tell yourself as a GM that he will bounce back. Especially when you paid him early and his price tag limits your options around him.

And I also think McVay is among the best at what he does. So between the first point and this one that's where I'm at. I don't trust that Goff is going to get back to who he was.

But you know none of that even matters. The key is whether McVay believes in him. And after that press conference I have no hope left of that being the case.

 

[12intheBox]

Allowed, maybe. I'll leave that to the moderators. But I personally don't like it. It ought to be sufficient to criticize a player for his play or his approach or his training.

By now every body also ought to get it that internet rumors, even ones with lots of credulous followers, may be complete nonsense or worse. But apparently we have not figured it out.

All we have is play. Approach, training - that is based on the same rumor mill, coach speak, puffery kind of crap. We don’t know what is happening behind closed doors.

again, it’s a message board. We are just fans talking shit. None of our posts matter in the Rams evaluation process. No one is gaining anything or losing anything here - this is entertainment only.

your opinion is almost as valid as mine.

 

[OldSchool]

Getting anything for him above a 2nd rounder is an overpay but yeah there's a sucker born every minute.


View: https://twitter.com/JosinaAnderson/status/1355585954627678209?

 

[FarNorth]

I have not had that sense of clarity

I think Stafford would be a big upgrade, myself. And honestly, if we can rid ourselves of Goffs contract and replace him with a JAG who is paid like a JAG, I think we may be better off.

I just don’t believe in him.

I want to - I have tried to get behind him - I have tried to like him. I just don’t. I think he is holding us back.

I know I’m in the minority, but I think we looked better with the Wolf out there.

Good response! Your view has as much validity as anyone's.

I still believe in Goff although he had a rough year. But the issue now for me is that McVay doesn't seem to believe in him going forward. Imo that's an untenable situation.

I liked Stafford through much of his career, but finally gave up on him. But I haven't followed the Lions closely. If we trade for him I would be very disappointed but hope I'm underestimating him.

You are right that there is an argument for "a JAG who is paid like a JAG" at qb. Rams could add at least a couple of other serious players if they are not paying a top market value qb. The offense could use that kind of help. So could the D.

There have been teams that have been successful with apparent JAG qbs, including the Rams with Kurt Warner. Minnesota for a year with Case Keenum. Taysome Hill has looked good. You still have to have the right guy. It's a small sample size on Wolford.

But it could work if the D is outstanding and the offense, likely including the qb, can run the ball, doesn't turn it over a lot, and isn't forced into playing from behind with a constant passing game. One of our posters, maybe Merlin, predicted that the Rams could possibly run an RPO style offense. Looking at you Cam Akers...

I personally wouldn't give up Goff or Watkins to go there, but it's possible that McVay might have a different view. It would be a very interesting experiment.

 

[FarNorth]

All we have is play. Approach, training - that is based on the same rumor mill, coach speak, puffery kind of crap. We don’t know what is happening behind closed doors.

again, it’s a message board. We are just fans talking shit. None of our posts matter in the Rams evaluation process. No one is gaining anything or losing anything here - this is entertainment only.

your opinion is almost as valid as mine.

Agree we don't know what's behind closed doors, but imo approach and training are actually fairly visible in athletes-- for example, Whitworth, Kupp, Woods-- and a lot more valid than rumors.

 

[FarNorth]

No it's not. We'd have to endure pages of them trying to get their heads around the fact that Blythe isn't good enough. Pass on that shit.

I was only kidding! I'm not a Blythe adulator and agree it could be painful if there were legions of them.

 

[dieterbrock]

Stafford in 2020- in 16 games, 26 TD total, 4,084 yards passing
Goff in 2020- in 15 games, 24 TD total, 3,952 yards passing
Cant understand where one is an "upgrade" over the other

 

[nighttrain]

Stafford in 2020- in 16 games, 26 TD total, 4,084 yards passing
Goff in 2020- in 15 games, 24 TD total, 3,952 yards passing
Cant understand where one is an "upgrade" over the other

Stafford on the downside of his career, Goff is still ascending
train

 

[jrry32]

Not at all.

All of this because McVay is a trendsetter. All this because QB salaries are fucking stupid. All this because he has decided Goff is not good enough and he's going to bring in QB types who fit what he wants to do. Every single QB he has brought in has had good mobility. He tried to hire Kingsbury because IMO he wants to bake in more college schematics into his scheme. Right now behind Goff we have 3 guys who can execute designed runs and RPO.

Of course he may get Watson but that's gonna be extremely costly. Not sure how that would work out long term and for me personally even though I acknowledge that we overvalue first round picks as fans I am leery of another 4 years of no first round picks and I think our roster will suffer. But I don't think that will happen because it's too good to be true. Basically.

Everyone's talking about Stafford but that doesn't fit the trend where I think McVay is going. Statue in the pocket puhlease. I could be waaaay off base here but we are going to be athletic at QB and he's going to use that to threaten the edges and increase his third down efficiency and with our run game that I expect us to have I think we'll have a very good offense. Not great but better than we've endured the last two years.

Merlin, QB salaries aren't stupid. They're a recognition that in the NFL, you either have a QB or you don't. If you don't, you're likely not going to be competitive. It's the most important position on the field, so teams are desperate to keep their QBs and pay a premium. It's supply and demand. Demand is high, and supply is low. As far as hiring Kingsbury goes, when push came to shove, McVay hired Kevin O'Connell. There were plenty of other college coaches he could have pursued.

Who said anything about a completely different scheme. We saw RPO the moment Wolford went in there. We saw designed runs too. McVay wants that in HIS offense and that's a good thing.

If he's lucky he'll get Watson and can use that stuff sparingly because Watson can win from the pocket. But it's gonna be part of his offense moving forward.

Reason I think we draft a QB at this point is because as I review things and look at the options that is the best place to get a QB for the least bang for your buck. Let's say it's Mond. Draft him and sit him on the depth chart while we roll with Wolford or Perkins (whoever wins from them and any middling vets they bring in). Endure a season of heavy ball control and ground game with a little razzle dazzle off play action. Then either move Mond into the role or draft a QB if he or Perkins hasn't shown enough growth.

Jeez, man, that just sounds like a one-way trip to the cellar of the NFCW.

 

[dieterbrock]

I have a much bigger sample size with Goff than Wolf, I’ll admit. But I’m not the only one who saw it that way, Coach McVay seems to be with me.

How so? Isnt Coach McVay allegedly trying to "upgrade" the QB position? Seems to me he wants the QB position upgraded. That doesnt bode well for Wolford

 

[12intheBox]

Stafford in 2020- in 16 games, 26 TD total, 4,084 yards passing
Goff in 2020- in 15 games, 24 TD total, 3,952 yards passing
Cant understand where one is an "upgrade" over the other

Turnovers.

 

[dieterbrock]

Stafford on the downside of his career, Goff is still ascending
train

Haha, you caught me there. I meant that I cant see how Stafford's numbers show an upgrade over Goff's. I think Goff would be a clear upgrade in Detroit, but that's an entirely different subject...

 

[12intheBox]

How so? Isnt Coach McVay allegedly trying to "upgrade" the QB position? Seems to me he wants the QB position upgraded. That doesnt bode well for Wolford

I meant that when given the choice between Goff and Wolford in a win or go home game - Coach went with the Wolf.

I’m not saying that the Wolf is our long term solution or that McV thinks he is. I’m just saying - we saw who the choice was.

 

[dieterbrock]

Turnovers.

Well they both had 0 turnovers in the playoffs. So that's even right?
Oh, wait a minute...

 

[12intheBox]

Stafford on the downside of his career, Goff is still ascending
train

Is he? Is he improving? Is that what any of us see out there? Was 2020 Goff better than 2019? Than 2018? 2017?

 

[dieterbrock]

I meant that when given the choice between Goff and Wolford in a win or go home game - Coach went with the Wolf.

I’m not saying that the Wolf is our long term solution or that McV thinks he is. I’m just saying - we saw who the choice was.

You mean in a game when Goff was inactive after surgery on his thumb? Or a game that Wolford couldnt make it thru a quarter because he got his bell rung?