Detroit signs Jared Goff to 4 year $212M extension $170M guaranteed

[FrantikRam]

I don't think people are refusing to acknowledge that the trade was worth it but actually that we believe Goff is better than what some people believe.

Did Stafford lead the lions to a Super Bowl even with Calvin Johnson? No. He needed more support especially on defense.

The Rams gave Stafford a very good offensive line and weapons and a top of the line defense to get to the Super Bowl. But I give all the credit to Stafford coming thru the clutch in the playoffs and super bowl.

Could Goff have done that? Doubt it. But I still think he would have been good enough to get his team to the Super Bowl if the coach didn't do stupid stuff in the 49er game. The coach lost that game not Goff.

I guess nobody has ever directly addressed me then, or they aren't listening to me. Feel free to respond to my take here:

I don't think we can say Goff is better when he took us to a Super Bowl with a comparably talented team around him to what he has now. I can see some progression from him when watching him, and also some of his old tendencies. But explain to me how he's better when we saw him perform like this with an elite team around him already? I've never claimed he wasn't capable of this. What I've said is that when the team inevitably declines around him, he won't be worth the contract. I don't see how anyone can disprove that right now.

 

[brucebruce]

If I were the lions, I would have traded Goff high and moved up in the draft for a top rookie QB.

 

[brucebruce]

Ok 9ers, time to step up and give Purdy 50+.

 

[RamFan503]

If I were the lions, I would have traded Goff high and moved up in the draft for a top rookie QB.

For what QB and how much would you give to pull that off? I honestly didn't see a QB in this last draft that I would consider either better than Goff or a lock to be so. And this from someone who was never really a Goff fan. Goff can pretty much do everything the Lions need as long as he protects the ball. A rookie no doubt sets them back in a time when they have the tools to be a serious contender.

Not sure the contract is warranted but.... meh. It's not the Rams so I don't care.

 

[brucebruce]

For what QB and how much would you give to pull that off? I honestly didn't see a QB in this last draft that I would consider either better than Goff or a lock to be so. And this from someone who was never really a Goff fan. Goff can pretty much do everything the Lions need as long as he protects the ball. A rookie no doubt sets them back in a time when they have the tools to be a serious contender.

Not sure the contract is warranted but.... meh. It's not the Rams so I don't care.

It's a wild premise but giving goff 50+ vs a bet on a top rookie QB, I'd take the latter, especially since they have a young team. Goff at 50+ is a bet on its own that I really don't like. But I'm happy that they did it because I believe that it'll make them less of a threat.

 

[Kupped]

Mahomey, Allen, Stafford & Burrow are the only QB in the game I'd rather have than Goff, hands down.
The money is just ridiculous, but it's just the way things go

Goff belongs in a tier with Purdy.
Incredible production on teams with incredible talent and schemes.
Purdy missed one game.. had one more TD and one less Int, better completion percentage and QB rating.

Top tier? Mahomes. Alone.

2
Allen, Stafford and Burrow

2.5
Lamar Jackson

3
Stroud, Prescott, Herbert, Love


Goff and Purdy live outside of that.. but I do believe both are appreciably better than Tua.

 

[Kupped]

It's a wild premise but giving goff 50+ vs a bet on a top rookie QB, I'd take the latter, especially since they have a young team. Goff at 50+ is a bet on its own that I really don't like. But I'm happy that they did it because I believe that it'll make them less of a threat.

If you think there's a guy in the draft available to you who can elevate your team, you just take him and figure out the Goff thing in a couple of years.
The roster advantage of a rookie QB doesn't really matter if he's not significantly better than Goff, imo.. and you can't guarantee that with many QBs.

 

[Tano]

I guess nobody has ever directly addressed me then, or they aren't listening to me. Feel free to respond to my take here:

I don't think we can say Goff is better when he took us to a Super Bowl with a comparably talented team around him to what he has now. I can see some progression from him when watching him, and also some of his old tendencies. But explain to me how he's better when we saw him perform like this with an elite team around him already? I've never claimed he wasn't capable of this. What I've said is that when the team inevitably declines around him, he won't be worth the contract. I don't see how anyone can disprove that right now.

Maybe but you can't really prove that he won't either.

We will see.

 

[thirteen28]

Goff belongs in a tier with Purdy.
Incredible production on teams with incredible talent and schemes.
Purdy missed one game.. had one more TD and one less Int, better completion percentage and QB rating.

Top tier? Mahomes. Alone.

2
Allen, Stafford and Burrow

2.5
Lamar Jackson

3
Stroud, Prescott, Herbert, Love


Goff and Purdy live outside of that.. but I do believe both are appreciably better than Tua.

This is where you lose me.

I'd absolutely take Goff over Prescott, every day and twice on Sunday. Dak has wilted badly in the playoffs year after year and can't even get to conference championship game even when he's had a loaded team. If you put him under center in Detroit, you'd probably get the same results as you get in Dallas - a guy who turns heads in the regular season but struggles to get past the WC round and absolutely cannot go beyond the divisional round.

Love? What has he done yet? He was awful in the 4th quarter of the playoff game against the 49ers, at a point in the game where all he had to do was not screw up and they win and move on.

Herbert? After being spotted a 20-something point lead still couldn't pull out a victory in the playoffs. He's more physically gifted than Goff, but until he proves something, that's all I'm willing to give him.

Stroud is the only one there I would grant you, but even then, he only has one year under his belt. I'd say his prospects to climb to tier 2 are pretty good, but right now those are just prospects. I'd put my future bets on CJ over any of the other three QBs you listed in that tier, and without much hesitation.

 

[Kupped]

This is where you lose me.

I'd absolutely take Goff over Prescott, every day and twice on Sunday. Dak has wilted badly in the playoffs year after year and can't even get to conference championship game even when he's had a loaded team. If you put him under center in Detroit, you'd probably get the same results as you get in Dallas - a guy who turns heads in the regular season but struggles to get past the WC round and absolutely cannot go beyond the divisional round.

Love? What has he done yet? He was awful in the 4th quarter of the playoff game against the 49ers, at a point in the game where all he had to do was not screw up and they win and move on.

Herbert? After being spotted a 20-something point lead still couldn't pull out a victory in the playoffs. He's more physically gifted than Goff, but until he proves something, that's all I'm willing to give him.

Stroud is the only one there I would grant you, but even then, he only has one year under his belt. I'd say his prospects to climb to tier 2 are pretty good, but right now those are just prospects. I'd put my future bets on CJ over any of the other three QBs you listed in that tier, and without much hesitation.

I think that's totally fair with Prescott, but he has his fans. Maybe I'm too influenced there.

Love and Herbert? Sorry, but I just don't believe any GM in the NFL takes Goff over either of those guys. With Love, sure.. you're betting that what he showed down the stretch is who he is. But, as far as arm talent and physical ability, he's a significant tier above Goff. His production tracked the improvement of his young WRs. It's a matter of believing if his production in the second half of last year was real. Maybe it wasn't, we'll see.

Herbert is a badass who's been held back by a shitty org. He's ridiculous. You want to punish him for that, fine.. but look at his first four years versus Goff's first four years.. it's not even close... with nowhere near the offensive advantages Goff had once McVay arrived.

I've got no argument with the stuff on Stroud.

 

[Mojo Ram]

Maybe but you can't really prove that he won't either.

We will see.

But… I mean he’s an 8 year guy now. He’s been on a few great teams, some good teams and a couple poor teams.

When is it time to declare that he is what he is? You know what I mean?

 

[thirteen28]

I think that's totally fair with Prescott, but he has his fans. Maybe I'm too influenced there.

Love and Herbert? Sorry, but I just don't believe any GM in the NFL takes Goff over either of those guys. With Love, sure.. you're betting that what he showed down the stretch is who he is. But, as far as arm talent and physical ability, he's a significant tier above Goff. His production tracked the improvement of his young WRs. It's a matter of believing if his production in the second half of last year was real. Maybe it wasn't, we'll see.

Herbert is a badass who's been held back by a shitty org. He's ridiculous. You want to punish him for that, fine.. but look at his first four years versus Goff's first four years.. it's not even close... with nowhere near the offensive advantages Goff had once McVay arrived.

I've got no argument with the stuff on Stroud.

You are too influenced by something on Dak, not sure what. But he looks like nothing more than a regular season superstar to me.

As for Love, there have been many, many QBs with arm talent and physical ability that exceeds that of Goff who didn't pan out. Love still has a lot to show before I would give him the nod. One year of 9-8 and a disastrous 4th quarter in a winnable playoff game isn't enough to get the nod.

Herbert seems like a guy who should have done more to me. A lot of Goff's critics come after him for some inability to lift the team around him, but a guy like Herbert who has more natural talent and physical gifts gets excused for his failings because ... he doesn't have the team around him. It's inconsistently applied logic. The fact remains is that in 4 years, while he has monster regular season numbers, the team he QBs has one 10 win season, one playoff appearance, and one massive choke after having a huge lead. You would absolutely rake Goff over the coals (and probably rightly so) if his team lost a game like that, so why does Herbert get a pass, particularly with all the tools in his bag? At least for now, Herbert IMO has underachieved relative to his own unique gifts.

 

[Kupped]

You are too influenced by something on Dak, not sure what. But he looks like nothing more than a regular season superstar to me.

As for Love, there have been many, many QBs with arm talent and physical ability that exceeds that of Goff who didn't pan out. Love still has a lot to show before I would give him the nod. One year of 9-8 and a disastrous 4th quarter in a winnable playoff game isn't enough to get the nod.

Herbert seems like a guy who should have done more to me. A lot of Goff's critics come after him for some inability to lift the team around him, but a guy like Herbert who has more natural talent and physical gifts gets excused for his failings because ... he doesn't have the team around him. It's inconsistently applied logic. The fact remains is that in 4 years, while he has monster regular season numbers, the team he QBs has one 10 win season, one playoff appearance, and one massive choke after having a huge lead. You would absolutely rake Goff over the coals (and probably rightly so) if his team lost a game like that, so why does Herbert get a pass, particularly with all the tools in his bag? At least for now, Herbert IMO has underachieved relative to his own unique gifts.

I’m sorry.. but you just don’t seem to want to consider that Goff has benefited tremendously from coaching, surrounding talent and scheme.

 

[thirteen28]

I’m sorry.. but you just don’t seem to want to consider that Goff has benefited tremendously from coaching, surrounding talent and scheme.

Why is it then that Herbert can put up ridiculous regular season numbers, but gets a pass when his team loses a win-and-in/lose-and-go-home game (against the Raiders of all teams), and the next year his team loses a wild-card playoff game after building a huge lead? The Chargers losing those two games can't all be chalked up to organization. There were in those positions with a chance to move on both times, and in neither of those cases were they facing some obviously superior opponent. As I said, if you are honest, you will admit you would rake Goff over the coals if his teams came up short in the same situation.

Those were the two biggest games of Herbert's career, he had a chance to be a difference maker in both, and wasn't. At what point is it on him to be a difference maker in those games and get his team over the hump?

 

[FrantikRam]

Maybe but you can't really prove that he won't either.

We will see.

Very true - but I think the difference is someone who is in favor of the contract is banking on seeing something we haven't seen, while I'm banking on something we have seen.

 

[Tano]

But… I mean he’s an 8 year guy now. He’s been on a few great teams, some good teams and a couple poor teams.

When is it time to declare that he is what he is? You know what I mean?

I'm just saying he is better than good but not great

You're saying he is at best just good

I doubt we are going to change each other's mind on this.

 

[Tano]

Very true - but I think the difference is someone who is in favor of the contract is banking on seeing something we haven't seen, while I'm banking on something we have seen.

QBs are vastly overpaid.

You can say that about a lot of QBs that are paid what they are being paid.

The only one that is still active imho that is worth the second or third contract that they got is Mahomes.

Maybe Burrows - all others NO

 

[dieterbrock]

Goff had 4 TD - ZERO INT in Detroit's run to the NFC Championship game, his team scoring nearly 30 ppg
Its amazing how still people want to minimize his achievements.
Stafford is better, we likely dont win a ring without him. I make that trade every day and 10x on Sunday.
But this nonsense about elevating his teams, or not, is lunacy. That 2021 Lions team was so devoid of talent its ridiculous. And yet they played some competitive ball because of 16
He's no Stafford, that's for damn sure. But no way am I taking Dak over him, or Herbert who loses every big game he plays in going back to his Oregon days

 

[PARAM]

let's see herbert with mcvay.

Let's see him with Harbaugh

 

[PARAM]

Goff had 4 TD - ZERO INT in Detroit's run to the NFC Championship game, his team scoring nearly 30 ppg
Its amazing how still people want to minimize his achievements.
Stafford is better, we likely dont win a ring without him. I make that trade every day and 10x on Sunday.
But this nonsense about elevating his teams, or not, is lunacy. That 2021 Lions team was so devoid of talent its ridiculous. And yet they played some competitive ball because of 16
He's no Stafford, that's for damn sure. But no way am I taking Dak over him, or Herbert who loses every big game he plays in going back to his Oregon days

It's a commitment to which some fans have to adhere. Almost like if you give Goff kudos without the obligatory yebbit, yebbit, yebbit it's an affront to McVay. Or Stafford.

No matter what he does, no matter how good he plays, it'll be because he's surrounded with amazing talent or the playcaller is amazing or insert qualifying comment here. It's simple. He's just not capable of playing well, regardless of the stats or results..

Man, that sunrise comment went a looooong way