Covid 19 thread

[SteezyEndo]

Now this is a lady that takes her masks very serious.

And has cauliflower ear because of it.

 

[Dieter the Brock]

*cringe*

Now everybody is intent on making the face mask into a physical badge of tribal identity, and wearing the mask is now about publicly distinguishing the virtuous, even though it does nothing in casual public settings. Fuck sakes. Just to prove a point to my buddy Nick at work today, I wore a mask made of cheese-cloth into Whole Foods (because you can't go in otherwise in Greenville), and nobody said fuck all. It was worthless, but I was nonetheless virtuous.

Why cheesecloth? That's what we use to strain slightly contaminated hydro oil, so I have a ton of it.

Yeah this is classic
I love to expose hypocrisy and call out freaks

But in this case, despite my utter amusement, you’re kinda just trolling really
I mean, you’re kinda just having fun with the fact nobody was paying close attention enough to know - or understand - that a cheesecloth wrapped around your face was worthless.
I mean what would you have done if someone who was smart enough to get your social commentary and call you out on it, or better yet kick you out of Whole Foods?
Would it then be more than what you say it is? “A physical badge of virtue” ?

It’s funny but at the same time kinda just telling everyone in the building to go fuck themselves, no?

 

[XXXIVwin]

Like @Mojo Ram said, you are alone in your car driving, you are out in public. Are YOU wearing a mask? You are outdoors where social distancing of well over 6 feet is easily accomplished, are YOU wearing a mask?

No. Of course not. Nobody is debating this. Straw man.

 

[dieterbrock]

No. Of course not. Nobody is debating this. Straw man.

Now you are just being obtuse. You should really read what you post.

 

[SWAdude]

Man did this speak to and for me. This is a long read from Mike Rowe who just has that way of saying things that gives such perspective that reaches many. I thought this may be a good place to share.


Mike.

In a recent post, you said you’ve been to Tennessee and Georgia, giving speeches and filming for your new show. Before that, you were on the road shooting for Dirty Jobs. Is it really so important to film a television show in the midst of pandemic? Is it responsible of you to encourage this kind of behavior when infection rates are spiking? Don’t you watch the news? More and more cases every day – aren’t you concerned?

Darlene Gabon


Hi Darlene

Of course, I’m concerned. I’m just not petrified.

On March 15th, the day after my part of the country was locked down, I posted a link to an interview with Dr. Michael Osterholm. I’m posting it again, because I believe you and everyone else in the country would benefit from listening carefully to what he has to say. https://bit.ly/2WLOM6o

Dr. Osterholm is the Director of Infectious Disease Research and Policy. This is the same epidemiologist who ten years ago, predicted a coronavirus would come from China and turn our country upside down. In his book “Deadliest Enemies,” he described the utterly irresponsible way in which the media would report on the situation, the completely opportunistic and shamelessly political way our leaders would likely react, and the unprecedented chaos and confusion that would arise from all the mixed messages from the medical community. His resume is unexampled, https://bit.ly/2WCwqou, and his analysis of the situation is the most logical and persuasive of any I’d heard so far. He’s also the only expert I know of who hasn’t walked back his numbers, reconsidered his position, or moved the goalposts with regard to what we must do, what we can do, and what he expects to happen next. I say all of this because Dr. Osterholm also predicted that we could easily see 100 million COVID cases in this country, with a very strong possibility of 480,000 fatalities – even if we successfully “flattened the curve.”

It took me a few weeks to accept this scenario, because 480,000 fatalities is a frightening number, and lot of other experts were saying lots of conflicting things. But eventually, I came to the conclusion that Dr. Osterholm was probably correct, and quickly navigated the four stages of grief that usually precede acceptance – denial, anger, bargaining, and depression. By late April, I had come to accept Dr. Osterholm’s predictions as a matter of fact. Since then, I’ve had three full months to come to terms with the fact that, a) I am probably going to get COVID-19 at some point, b), I am almost certainly going to survive it, and c), I might very well give it to someone else.

I hope that doesn’t sound blasé, or glib, or fatalistic, or selfish. Four-hundred eighty thousand deaths is an obvious tragedy, and I’m deeply sympathetic to all who have been impacted thus far. I’m also very concerned for my parents, and everyone else in a high risk category. But when Dr. Osterholm says that COVID can be slowed, but not stopped, I believe him. When he says a vaccine will not necessarily hasten herd immunity, I believe him. And when he says that “flattening the curve” and eliminating the virus have nothing to do with each other, I believe him.

Thus, for the last three months, I’ve been operating from the assumption that this is a year-round virus that’s eventually going to infect 100 million people and kill roughly 1/2 of one percent of those infected. I’ve gotten used to those numbers in much the same way I’ve gotten used to the fact that 40,000 people will likely die on the highways this year. That’s why I’m not panicked or surprised by tens of thousands of daily COVID cases; I’ve been expecting them. Unfortunately, many others have not. Every day, millions of people watch the same breathless coverage by the same breathless journalists, who seem determined to do all they can to foster uncertainty. And so, millions of people are still paralyzed by fear, because they haven’t been given a chance to digest the truth, (or, what I believe to be the truth.) Fact is, we can accept almost anything, if we’re given the facts, and enough time to get our heads around them. But if we don’t have an understanding of what’s really happening, we simply can’t get passed denial and bargaining, where so many seem to be stuck, understandably so.

Imagine for a moment you had no idea how many people would die in car accidents this year. Now, imagine that every single accident – over six million a year in the US alone – were reported on the same way that every new COVID case is reported today. Imagine every day you were told in hysterical tones, that another 16,000 accidents had occurred, resulting in another 90 deaths per day. What would that do to your willingness to drive? Six million accidents is a lot of accidents, and 40,000 annual fatalities is a lot of death – especially if you don’t know how high that number could get. But we DO know the dangers of driving, and we’ve accepted those numbers.

Consequently, we’re able to make a grown-up decision about whether or not we want to assume the associated risk of operating a motor vehicle.

Again, don’t misunderstand. I’m not ignoring COVID, and I’m not pretending the risks at hand aren’t real. I don’t want to get this disease and give it to someone else, any more than I want to be in a car wreck and hurt someone else. So, I take precautions. I get tested often. If I can’t distance, I wear a mask – especially around higher risk people. I also wear a seatbelt, obey the speed limits, and check my mirrors before changing lanes. I’m aware that we’d all be a lot safer if we kept our cars in the garage. I’m also aware we’d be a lot safer if we all kept ourselves in the house. But that’s not why cars, or people, exist.

Anyway Darlene, that’s a long way of saying that I have accepted Dr. Osterholm’s numbers, and now, after three months of acceptance, I’ve made a decision on how I wish to live my life. Sooner or later, you will too. We all will.

Mike

 

[Dieter the Brock]

Man did this speak to and for me. This is a long read from Mike Rowe who just has that way of saying things that gives such perspective that reaches many. I thought this may be a good place to share.


Mike.

In a recent post, you said you’ve been to Tennessee and Georgia, giving speeches and filming for your new show. Before that, you were on the road shooting for Dirty Jobs. Is it really so important to film a television show in the midst of pandemic? Is it responsible of you to encourage this kind of behavior when infection rates are spiking? Don’t you watch the news? More and more cases every day – aren’t you concerned?

Darlene Gabon


Hi Darlene

Of course, I’m concerned. I’m just not petrified.

On March 15th, the day after my part of the country was locked down, I posted a link to an interview with Dr. Michael Osterholm. I’m posting it again, because I believe you and everyone else in the country would benefit from listening carefully to what he has to say. https://bit.ly/2WLOM6o

Dr. Osterholm is the Director of Infectious Disease Research and Policy. This is the same epidemiologist who ten years ago, predicted a coronavirus would come from China and turn our country upside down. In his book “Deadliest Enemies,” he described the utterly irresponsible way in which the media would report on the situation, the completely opportunistic and shamelessly political way our leaders would likely react, and the unprecedented chaos and confusion that would arise from all the mixed messages from the medical community. His resume is unexampled, https://bit.ly/2WCwqou, and his analysis of the situation is the most logical and persuasive of any I’d heard so far. He’s also the only expert I know of who hasn’t walked back his numbers, reconsidered his position, or moved the goalposts with regard to what we must do, what we can do, and what he expects to happen next. I say all of this because Dr. Osterholm also predicted that we could easily see 100 million COVID cases in this country, with a very strong possibility of 480,000 fatalities – even if we successfully “flattened the curve.”

It took me a few weeks to accept this scenario, because 480,000 fatalities is a frightening number, and lot of other experts were saying lots of conflicting things. But eventually, I came to the conclusion that Dr. Osterholm was probably correct, and quickly navigated the four stages of grief that usually precede acceptance – denial, anger, bargaining, and depression. By late April, I had come to accept Dr. Osterholm’s predictions as a matter of fact. Since then, I’ve had three full months to come to terms with the fact that, a) I am probably going to get COVID-19 at some point, b), I am almost certainly going to survive it, and c), I might very well give it to someone else.

I hope that doesn’t sound blasé, or glib, or fatalistic, or selfish. Four-hundred eighty thousand deaths is an obvious tragedy, and I’m deeply sympathetic to all who have been impacted thus far. I’m also very concerned for my parents, and everyone else in a high risk category. But when Dr. Osterholm says that COVID can be slowed, but not stopped, I believe him. When he says a vaccine will not necessarily hasten herd immunity, I believe him. And when he says that “flattening the curve” and eliminating the virus have nothing to do with each other, I believe him.

Thus, for the last three months, I’ve been operating from the assumption that this is a year-round virus that’s eventually going to infect 100 million people and kill roughly 1/2 of one percent of those infected. I’ve gotten used to those numbers in much the same way I’ve gotten used to the fact that 40,000 people will likely die on the highways this year. That’s why I’m not panicked or surprised by tens of thousands of daily COVID cases; I’ve been expecting them. Unfortunately, many others have not. Every day, millions of people watch the same breathless coverage by the same breathless journalists, who seem determined to do all they can to foster uncertainty. And so, millions of people are still paralyzed by fear, because they haven’t been given a chance to digest the truth, (or, what I believe to be the truth.) Fact is, we can accept almost anything, if we’re given the facts, and enough time to get our heads around them. But if we don’t have an understanding of what’s really happening, we simply can’t get passed denial and bargaining, where so many seem to be stuck, understandably so.

Imagine for a moment you had no idea how many people would die in car accidents this year. Now, imagine that every single accident – over six million a year in the US alone – were reported on the same way that every new COVID case is reported today. Imagine every day you were told in hysterical tones, that another 16,000 accidents had occurred, resulting in another 90 deaths per day. What would that do to your willingness to drive? Six million accidents is a lot of accidents, and 40,000 annual fatalities is a lot of death – especially if you don’t know how high that number could get. But we DO know the dangers of driving, and we’ve accepted those numbers.

Consequently, we’re able to make a grown-up decision about whether or not we want to assume the associated risk of operating a motor vehicle.

Again, don’t misunderstand. I’m not ignoring COVID, and I’m not pretending the risks at hand aren’t real. I don’t want to get this disease and give it to someone else, any more than I want to be in a car wreck and hurt someone else. So, I take precautions. I get tested often. If I can’t distance, I wear a mask – especially around higher risk people. I also wear a seatbelt, obey the speed limits, and check my mirrors before changing lanes. I’m aware that we’d all be a lot safer if we kept our cars in the garage. I’m also aware we’d be a lot safer if we all kept ourselves in the house. But that’s not why cars, or people, exist.

Anyway Darlene, that’s a long way of saying that I have accepted Dr. Osterholm’s numbers, and now, after three months of acceptance, I’ve made a decision on how I wish to live my life. Sooner or later, you will too. We all will.

Mike

That was a pretty solid response
With that said I want to research what this guy Osterhuas is saying noe
I’m sure it’s a little more urgent

 

[XXXIVwin]

Its been awhile since I was in school, but a 98% on a test was pretty good right? I think the term was excellent?

98% is excellent? It all depends.

1. 98% on a school test? Yes, excellent.
2. 98% on my math question of "what percentage is required of 330 million people to equal less than a million"? No, 98% does not pass that "math" test. To find a number of less than one million as a subset of 330 million, you have to go all the way up to 99.7%.
3. 98% on my purely hypothetical example of mask compliance? Yes, that would be beyond excellent. The folks at the CDC describe "universal mask compliance" as being at 95%. The USA is still not close to meeting that standard of 95%, let alone 98%.
4. 98% for a baseball hitter? Yes. But it would be so good it would be nearly impossible. .400 for an MLB player? Terrific. .400 on a school quiz? Fail.
5. Lastly... if we were to say, "what if we protected 98% of Americans from dying from Covid?" No, that would of course be terrible. Two percent of 330 million is 6.6 million. If 6.6 million Americans died from Covid, we'd all think that was a tragedy of colossal proportions. So, in that purely hypothetical scenario, 98% success in keeping people alive would be considered a mammoth failure.

My only point is... yes, I agree with Old School insofar as numbers are important only when they are interpreted within a specific context.

 

[-X-]

It’s funny but at the same time kinda just telling everyone in the building to go fuck themselves, no?

Not so much. The mandate from the city literally said “face coverings” required in any grocery store (but for some odd reason gas station convenience stores were exempt - figure that one out). Saw another dude wearing a turtleneck up to his nose. That was kinda funny, but I couldn’t tell if he was being serious or not. He looked serious enough, but who knows anymore. Other people were causing a scene outside. I wasn’t gonna do that. I just wanted to test the enforcement policy, but there isn’t any, provided you wear something. Anything.

Plus, I know I don’t have the virus. I have to get tested fairly regularly with all the hospital work I do, so I wasn’t gambling with anyone else’s life. Just my own.

 

[Dieter the Brock]

Not so much. The mandate from the city literally said “face coverings” required in any grocery store (but for some odd reason gas station convenience stores were exempt - figure that one out). Saw another dude wearing a turtleneck up to his nose. That was kinda funny, but I couldn’t tell if he was being serious or not. He looked serious enough, but who knows anymore. Other people were causing a scene outside. I wasn’t gonna do that. I just wanted to test the enforcement policy, but there isn’t any, provided you wear something. Anything.

Plus, I know I don’t have the virus. I have to get tested fairly regularly with all the hospital work I do, so I wasn’t gambling with anyone else’s life. Just my own.

right on
* still laughing about the cheesecloth

 

[XXXIVwin]

Now you are just being obtuse. You should really read what you post.

As usual, you are including personal insults in your posts. Please cut it out. If you are too angry to post without resorting to personal insults, take a break from this thread for awhile.

You asked a direct question, which was this: "you are alone in your car driving, you are out in public. Are YOU wearing a mask? You are outdoors where social distancing of well over 6 feet is easily accomplished, are YOU wearing a mask?"

You asked a direct question, I gave a direct answer: "No. Of course not."

 

[XXXIVwin]

Are those 14% of Americans in states/counties/cities that mandate wearing masks? I mean it's a great number to stand on a soap box and scream to the rafters but context is everything.

Yes, agreed. With numbers, context is everything.

That's why I went out of my way to say that the 14% of Americans (which represents 46M people) was "only a “ballpark guesstimate”, and it could be inflated for all sorts of reasons."

I wrote, "Lots of babies and young kids, for example. Lots of older folks who are on self-quarantine and never go out in public. Lots of folks in remote areas where masks probably aren’t necessary."

And I can include in that number several more millions who wouldn't wear masks in public for all number of valid reasons... like driving alone in a car, or going on a walk in a neighborhood while maintaining proper distancing. Or not wearing a mask in public areas of towns where the prevalence of the virus is very low. And a whole host of other valid reasons.

HOWEVER, The key question is, "how many millions of Americans are still not wearing masks in public situations where physical distancing is not possible AND the risk of infection is considerable?" From a math standpoint, it is simply not plausible to argue that there are less than "millions" of Americans who fit this category.

 

[Faceplant]

Man did this speak to and for me. This is a long read from Mike Rowe who just has that way of saying things that gives such perspective that reaches many. I thought this may be a good place to share.


Mike.

In a recent post, you said you’ve been to Tennessee and Georgia, giving speeches and filming for your new show. Before that, you were on the road shooting for Dirty Jobs. Is it really so important to film a television show in the midst of pandemic? Is it responsible of you to encourage this kind of behavior when infection rates are spiking? Don’t you watch the news? More and more cases every day – aren’t you concerned?

Darlene Gabon


Hi Darlene

Of course, I’m concerned. I’m just not petrified.

On March 15th, the day after my part of the country was locked down, I posted a link to an interview with Dr. Michael Osterholm. I’m posting it again, because I believe you and everyone else in the country would benefit from listening carefully to what he has to say. https://bit.ly/2WLOM6o

Dr. Osterholm is the Director of Infectious Disease Research and Policy. This is the same epidemiologist who ten years ago, predicted a coronavirus would come from China and turn our country upside down. In his book “Deadliest Enemies,” he described the utterly irresponsible way in which the media would report on the situation, the completely opportunistic and shamelessly political way our leaders would likely react, and the unprecedented chaos and confusion that would arise from all the mixed messages from the medical community. His resume is unexampled, https://bit.ly/2WCwqou, and his analysis of the situation is the most logical and persuasive of any I’d heard so far. He’s also the only expert I know of who hasn’t walked back his numbers, reconsidered his position, or moved the goalposts with regard to what we must do, what we can do, and what he expects to happen next. I say all of this because Dr. Osterholm also predicted that we could easily see 100 million COVID cases in this country, with a very strong possibility of 480,000 fatalities – even if we successfully “flattened the curve.”

It took me a few weeks to accept this scenario, because 480,000 fatalities is a frightening number, and lot of other experts were saying lots of conflicting things. But eventually, I came to the conclusion that Dr. Osterholm was probably correct, and quickly navigated the four stages of grief that usually precede acceptance – denial, anger, bargaining, and depression. By late April, I had come to accept Dr. Osterholm’s predictions as a matter of fact. Since then, I’ve had three full months to come to terms with the fact that, a) I am probably going to get COVID-19 at some point, b), I am almost certainly going to survive it, and c), I might very well give it to someone else.

I hope that doesn’t sound blasé, or glib, or fatalistic, or selfish. Four-hundred eighty thousand deaths is an obvious tragedy, and I’m deeply sympathetic to all who have been impacted thus far. I’m also very concerned for my parents, and everyone else in a high risk category. But when Dr. Osterholm says that COVID can be slowed, but not stopped, I believe him. When he says a vaccine will not necessarily hasten herd immunity, I believe him. And when he says that “flattening the curve” and eliminating the virus have nothing to do with each other, I believe him.

Thus, for the last three months, I’ve been operating from the assumption that this is a year-round virus that’s eventually going to infect 100 million people and kill roughly 1/2 of one percent of those infected. I’ve gotten used to those numbers in much the same way I’ve gotten used to the fact that 40,000 people will likely die on the highways this year. That’s why I’m not panicked or surprised by tens of thousands of daily COVID cases; I’ve been expecting them. Unfortunately, many others have not. Every day, millions of people watch the same breathless coverage by the same breathless journalists, who seem determined to do all they can to foster uncertainty. And so, millions of people are still paralyzed by fear, because they haven’t been given a chance to digest the truth, (or, what I believe to be the truth.) Fact is, we can accept almost anything, if we’re given the facts, and enough time to get our heads around them. But if we don’t have an understanding of what’s really happening, we simply can’t get passed denial and bargaining, where so many seem to be stuck, understandably so.

Imagine for a moment you had no idea how many people would die in car accidents this year. Now, imagine that every single accident – over six million a year in the US alone – were reported on the same way that every new COVID case is reported today. Imagine every day you were told in hysterical tones, that another 16,000 accidents had occurred, resulting in another 90 deaths per day. What would that do to your willingness to drive? Six million accidents is a lot of accidents, and 40,000 annual fatalities is a lot of death – especially if you don’t know how high that number could get. But we DO know the dangers of driving, and we’ve accepted those numbers.

Consequently, we’re able to make a grown-up decision about whether or not we want to assume the associated risk of operating a motor vehicle.

Again, don’t misunderstand. I’m not ignoring COVID, and I’m not pretending the risks at hand aren’t real. I don’t want to get this disease and give it to someone else, any more than I want to be in a car wreck and hurt someone else. So, I take precautions. I get tested often. If I can’t distance, I wear a mask – especially around higher risk people. I also wear a seatbelt, obey the speed limits, and check my mirrors before changing lanes. I’m aware that we’d all be a lot safer if we kept our cars in the garage. I’m also aware we’d be a lot safer if we all kept ourselves in the house. But that’s not why cars, or people, exist.

Anyway Darlene, that’s a long way of saying that I have accepted Dr. Osterholm’s numbers, and now, after three months of acceptance, I’ve made a decision on how I wish to live my life. Sooner or later, you will too. We all will.

Mike

/thread

 

[bluecoconuts]

Yeah this is classic
I love to expose hypocrisy and call out freaks

But in this case, despite my utter amusement, you’re kinda just trolling really
I mean, you’re kinda just having fun with the fact nobody was paying close attention enough to know - or understand - that a cheesecloth wrapped around your face was worthless.
I mean what would you have done if someone who was smart enough to get your social commentary and call you out on it, or better yet kick you out of Whole Foods?
Would it then be more than what you say it is? “A physical badge of virtue” ?

It’s funny but at the same time kinda just telling everyone in the building to go fuck themselves, no?

Not that it has a lot of relation to the original post, but it reminds me of some of the weirder things I've seen people do in regards to mask usage.

If you scroll through some of the thirstier pages on Instagram you'll find videos of women taking their panties off and using that as a mask. It always really weird me out, like I wouldn't be sitting there going "Oh, panties, that's not a mask." I would be thinking "Gross, this chick just shoved her sweaty shit string into her own face."

The people putting on Halloween masks are funny, but my absolute favorite will always be the Gen Z kids dressing up as old ladies to buy booze.

 

[-X-]

right on
* still laughing about the cheesecloth

Yeah, shoulda got a picture. I’m not doing it again though. I get that people are scared, so I should be more considerate than that. I still have very strong opinions about why this is all playing out the way it is, but that’s my problem. Not anyone else’s.

 

[bluecoconuts]

With that said I want to research what this guy Osterhuas is saying noe

If you watch the link in the post, he's working on a lot of outdated information in the post, which is obvious given that science was still learning.

He did another interview actually today it seems, and as you have suggested, it's a little more urgent, but it's nothing too crazy. It's scientist urgent, which is a totally different vibe than normal urgency, so he sounds like he's just teaching a class.

Top Epidemiologist Dr. Michael Osterholm on the Continuing Challenges of COVID-19

art19.com

I haven't listened to it all yet, but he's basically saying that a lack of federal response is a major issue. The lack of testing oversight was challenging, and there are problems still there but not being addressed by either the Government or private sector. Says we need to come together and think about it as us vs the virus, not us vs each other. He talks about coming together wearing masks, and working on real plans. He also suggests that a vaccine might not be good and herd immunity might not be a thing with this virus. There's no evidence to support natural immunity and recent research is suggesting that people can get infected more than once and thus herd immunity may not be achievable and vaccines may not actually last that long in terms of protecting people.

But in his basic assessment he says that we have come to understand this isn't going to be like an influenza pandemic, and we shouldn't expect it to act as one. He says that he would classify the virus as a raging forest fire and that some countries locked down to get the fire under control before opening back up, and the United States instead opted to get the fire under about 60% containment claim it was good and let the other 30% burn wildly, and now we have a much larger forest fire to deal with than we did before. He goes on to say that he doesn't think anything is going to change anytime soon due to the lack of leadership.

It's a great listen though, only 15 minutes in and I'm hooked, an expert in every sense of the word it seems.

 

[XXXIVwin]

He says that he would classify the virus as a raging forest fire and that some countries locked down to get the fire under control before opening back up, and the United States instead opted to get the fire under about 60% containment claim it was good and let the other 30% burn wildly, and now we have a much larger forest fire to deal with than we did before.

This.

 

[snackdaddy]

Open it up or lock it down. Opening it up saves the economy. Locking it down saves lives. Both sides have a legit argument. Thinking the side that disagrees with you is wrong is fine. But to chastise them and call them irresponsible is not fine. Its called opinion and everybody has one. I hope I'm not so arrogant that I think I need to set someone straight if their opinion disagrees with mine.

 

[XXXIVwin]

Open it up or lock it down. Opening it up saves the economy. Locking it down saves lives. Both sides have a legit argument. Thinking the side that disagrees with you is wrong is fine. But to chastise them and call them irresponsible is not fine. Its called opinion and everybody has one. I hope I'm not so arrogant that I think I need to set someone straight if their opinion disagrees with mine.

With all due respect, this may have been how the debate was framed way back in April. But the debate is no longer about this now, in July.

The goal is to do BOTH-- save lives and save the economy-- at the same time.

If a country opens up the right way-- AFTER the virus has been crushed to near baseline, and WITH proper masking and social distancing-- then that country can BOTH rescue the economy AND save lives.

If a country opens up the wrong way--BEFORE the virus has been severely constrained, and then WITHOUT proper masking and social distancing-- then that country will BOTH tank the economy AND lose many lives.

Good health and good economy go together. Bad health and bad economy go together.

 

[bluecoconuts]

Opening it up saves the economy.

That doesn't actually appear to be the case. If you look at Sweden they didn't shut down and their economy took the same type of hit as their neighbors who did shut down, only they had a ton more cases and deaths. The only thing to save the economy is to beat the virus.

 

[Mackeyser]

We shall see, it's all as they say in the eye of the beholder. Football being such a contact sport I think it'll come down to what the players are willing to do.

Yeah. If by some miracle, the NBA goes off without a hitch, I think the NFL players will consider it, but if it goes the way I think it will... I mean...they're in FL...as am I... then I think they'll end up scrapping the season because there's no safe way to do it.

Also, as AD said, it's not fun to not play in front of fans and there's simply no way that they will be able to have fans in any kind of venue unless this country belligerently locked down even harder than before for 8 full weeks.

That's not gonna happen, so...

I mean, this is 2020 so, honestly, I've given up trying to use my pattern recognition powers for...anything.

If 2020 were a D&D character, they'd be Chaotic Evil...