Your Controversial Rams Takes

[den-the-coach]

If Martz was such a ‘train wreck as a head coach’, why did he keep getting head coaching opportunities?
Oh, wait … never mind.

Seriously though, think of all the unsuccessful head coaches that got second chances. I think Martz had three playoff teams and won three postseason games (didn’t look it up) but never got another NFL head coaching job.

Well, you can be blackballed in the NFL, Brian Billick won a Super Bowl and never got a dinner. (Red Buttons) Seriously though, Billick was such a PIA that others stayed away from him and Martz was looked upon as the same.

It didn't help that when Martz got opportunities as an OC late, he didn't do so well. I still believe if they had paired Martz with a bonafide Personnel Guy, things might have been different. BTW that is one area Vermeil shined not only picking good players, but getting everyone on the same page.

 

[Allen2McVay]

... Brian Billick won a Super Bowl and never got a dinner. (Red Buttons)

 

[majrleaged]

Here’s what happened. Martz was the hot young prospect and led an historic offense. He was going to become a head coach. So the FO and ownership signed Martz to a record deal for a OC with the understanding that Martz would succeed Vermeil.

That made Vermeil a lame duck HC who didn’t have the full authority of an HC (remember, for all the tears, he was a hard nosed disciplinarian… like an emotionally available Belichick). As well, Martz was an arrogant ass who Vermiel was clear would have pushed the boundaries and Vermeil wasn’t up for that. No HC wants to be in that space of not having the full support of ownership and having your replacement on staff isn’t a great place to be so Vermeil stepped back in what I saw as a necessary, unfortunate, and classy move to prevent any power struggle that he’d had no interest in fighting in the first place.

This sounds right. Rams management under Her and Shaw always had the wrong motivation when making decisions. Winning the SB was never the goal. Looking like they were trying to, to keep the fans coming to the game was. When they happened to win the SB, they didn't know how to manage a good team and burned it to the ground.

 

[CGI_Ram]

Do you have any opinions regarding the Rams that might be a bit controversial?

Here are 3 of mine:

1. Though ultimately not the most successful, the most talented Rams team ever was the 2001 squad.

2. Eric Dickerson’s status as an all-time Rams great is tainted by his fumbling problems and his exit (which, the team’s role aside, he handled horribly).

3. Kurt Warner, despite a carefully cultivated image, has a pretty big ego and is not so selfless.

What are your controversial takes?

This was a great topic, and fantastic read. Thanks for posting it.

Challenge for ROD members; Post a question topic every once in a while. These always bring about good conversation.

Well done everyone.

 

[den-the-coach]

That made Vermeil a lame duck HC who didn’t have the full authority of an HC (remember, for all the tears, he was a hard nosed disciplinarian… like an emotionally available Belichick). As well, Martz was an arrogant ass who Vermiel was clear would have pushed the boundaries and Vermeil wasn’t up for that. No HC wants to be in that space of not having the full support of ownership and having your replacement on staff isn’t a great place to be so Vermeil stepped back in what I saw as a necessary, unfortunate, and classy move to prevent any power struggle that he’d had no interest in fighting in the first place.

I have to disagree here, IMO, this is the one time the Ram front office was on the same page across the board. The FO met with both Vermeil & Martz first they wanted Vermeil to be okay with agreeing to extend Martz, which Vermeil informed them, he would retire after his contract was up, which would have been after 2001 season. Martz was more than willing to wait the two years and be head coach in waiting and this was prior to the Super Bowl victory and Vermeil deciding, he wanted to go out on top.

In fact before Vermeil retired, George tried to talk him out of it, but Vefmeil felt at that time the time was right. Look I was never a fan of Frontier or Shaw, but they did right be Vermeil as the were indebted to him.

Owner Georgia Frontiere tried to talk Vermeil out of it, team president John Shaw said he should at least wait to make sure and special teams coach Frank Gansz made an impassioned plea. Rams players just wanted the best for the coach who made it a point to get to know all of them.

ESPN.com - NFL - Martz to take over for Vermeil in St. Louis

 

[dang]

I believe if Brandin Cooks makes either one of those TD catches in SB 53, we’d be a dynasty in the making on a crazy alternate time path.

On the first missed opportunity, Goff’s throw was super late but I’m not sure Cooks was his first read. Cooks could have made a stronger play, stayed further left in the window and snatch the ball on a tough catch.

The 4th quarter drop with 4 min to go was in the basket and needs to be made.

Also like @Giles, if only we had Kupp.

Alternate time path…

I also believe Steven Jackson is one of the most underrated Rams.

Cooks is not Deandre Hopkins so him catching the first TD would have been nice but way beyond his pay grade. Goff throw was late but more importantly it floated. I do agree Cooks had a good chance at the second catch. I would have liked to seen him fight for it a bit more. If Cooks catches both balls he’s the SB MVP and likely still on the Rams.

 

[Kupped]

Controversial?

Georgia was one of the worst owners in pro-sports history.

Rams would've made it to the Super Bowl in 85 if they had a real offensive coordinator and used Jeff Kemp instead of Brock.

The new uniform's and helmet are better than those in the past.

 

[den-the-coach]

Controversial?

Georgia was one of the worst owners in pro-sports history.

Rams would've made it to the Super Bowl in 85 if they had a real offensive coordinator and used Jeff Kemp instead of Brock.

The new uniform's and helmet are better than those in the past.

1. Cannot Debate you about Georgia
2. In 1985 Dieter Brock was the big signing plus Jimmy Raye was the OC for the Rams 83-84 left for the Buccaneers the Rams had an OC by committee with Robinson, RB Coach Bruce Snyder & TE Coach Norv Turner.
3. However, I do agree in the NFC Championship game, i would have gone with the more mobile Kemp in the 2nd half to give the Bears a different look, that Ram defense in 85 played good enough to win on the road.

 

[Loyal]

1. Cannot Debate you about Georgia
2. In 1985 Dieter Brock was the big signing plus Jimmy Raye was the OC for the Rams 83-84 left for the Buccaneers the Rams had an OC by committee with Robinson, RB Coach Bruce Snyder & TE Coach Norv Turner.
3. However, I do agree in the NFC Championship game, i would have gone with the more mobile Kemp in the 2nd half to give the Bears a different look, that Ram defense in 85 played good enough to win on the road.

I don't know about Jeff Kemp. He never struck me as a winner....

 

[den-the-coach]

I don't know about Jeff Kemp. He never struck me as a winner....

He did lead the Rams to the playoffs in 1984 & played well for the 49ers, I felt in the NFC Championship game, he would have offered something different then Brock.

Brock just came off a horrendous game vs the Cowboys where he was 6-22 for 50 yards and a pick and was struggling mightily against the Bears, where if he could have hit a couple of slants to Ron Brown, the Rams would have scored.

I felt at half, go with Kemp, let him throw some roll outs and Brown would be open to connect for a big play. Similar to what Steve Dils did the for the Rams the following year in 1986.

 

[Merlin]

I agree re: Kemp. Rams had a very strong team, he might have made that game a bit closer though we undoubtedly still lose to that Bears team. Rams were the second best team that year, just a shame we had to run into a generational defense.

 

[Loyal]

I have to disagree here, IMO, this is the one time the Ram front office was on the same page across the board. The FO met with both Vermeil & Martz first they wanted Vermeil to be okay with agreeing to extend Martz, which Vermeil informed them, he would retire after his contract was up, which would have been after 2001 season. Martz was more than willing to wait the two years and be head coach in waiting and this was prior to the Super Bowl victory and Vermeil deciding, he wanted to go out on top.

In fact before Vermeil retired, George tried to talk him out of it, but Vefmeil felt at that time the time was right. Look I was never a fan of Frontier or Shaw, but they did right be Vermeil as the were indebted to him.

Owner Georgia Frontiere tried to talk Vermeil out of it, team president John Shaw said he should at least wait to make sure and special teams coach Frank Gansz made an impassioned plea. Rams players just wanted the best for the coach who made it a point to get to know all of them.

ESPN.com - NFL - Martz to take over for Vermeil in St. Louis

Georgia lover!

 

[Memento]

Controversial?

Georgia was one of the worst owners in pro-sports history.

Rams would've made it to the Super Bowl in 85 if they had a real offensive coordinator and used Jeff Kemp instead of Brock.

The new uniform's and helmet are better than those in the past.

About the bolded: Georgia, while she sucked ass, wasn’t even the worst female owner in sports history. That dubious dishonor belongs to Marge Schott. Now she was pure evil, even by the standards of her time.

 

[Loyal]

About the bolded: Georgia, while she sucked ass, wasn’t even the worst female owner in sports history. That dubious dishonor belongs to Marge Schott. Now she was pure evil, even by the standards of her time.

"Margie, hold my beer..." ~ Eddie Debartolo

 

[den-the-coach]

Georgia lover!

 

[nighttrain]

I don't know about Jeff Kemp. He never struck me as a winner....

gotta disagree, all time worst QB

1. Trent Dilfer​

Photo by Andy Lyons/Getty Images
The Super Bowl MVP award often goes to the winning quarterback by default. Trent Dilfer was the test case where his performance was so bad they couldn't justify it. Dilfer was (if we're being generous) a game manager who rode a historically good defense to a Super Bowl XXXV win in his only season with the Baltimore Ravens. Improbably, he did throw one TD pass in that game, but 12 completions out of 25 attempts isn't exactly lighting the world on fire and probably angered his receivers.

train

 

[Memento]

"Margie, hold my beer..." ~ Eddie Debartolo

While Debartolo was a piece of shit, he wasn’t a Nazi/Holocaust sympathizer and virulent racist like Schott was.

 

[den-the-coach]

About the bolded: Georgia, while she sucked ass, wasn’t even the worst female owner in sports history. That dubious dishonor belongs to Marge Schott. Now she was pure evil, even by the standards of her time.

 

[Memento]

Yeah, to think that she could’ve literally blown the smoke from her cigarettes in people’s faces, and it wouldn’t even rank as the worst things she did.

If hell exists, she’s probably screwing Satan.

 

[Loyal]

gotta disagree, all time worst QB

1. Trent Dilfer​

Photo by Andy Lyons/Getty Images
The Super Bowl MVP award often goes to the winning quarterback by default. Trent Dilfer was the test case where his performance was so bad they couldn't justify it. Dilfer was (if we're being generous) a game manager who rode a historically good defense to a Super Bowl XXXV win in his only season with the Baltimore Ravens. Improbably, he did throw one TD pass in that game, but 12 completions out of 25 attempts isn't exactly lighting the world on fire and probably angered his receivers.

train

Still, the Rams history while I've been alive was having decent-good QB's, who could rarely deliver a critical game winning strike like Stafford and Warner. Even Capt Kurt was a little short on that pass to Ike in the Super Bowl because The Freak Jevone Kearse was bearing down on him. Stafford made his mistakes, but he was cold as ice in that last drive vs Tampa Bay and the "no looker" to Kupp (both examples). We lose both those games with a QB like Kemp.