Stafford and those 2 first-rounders - worth it?

[OC--LeftCoast]

Way I see it this is the problem with the Goff backers. Everything was always someone else's fault. McVay was at fault, bad calls and scheme. The OL was at fault. The receivers were at fault. But not Jared oh no, poor Jared getting screwed over by everyone else.

You won't find a single person here acting that way about Stafford.

And strangely enough it was exactly the same effect with Bradford, there was a group all over his nuts who worshipped the guy and could never see that he was a shitty QB. A QB who lacked the balls and competitive fire to play at a high level in the NFL. So I think it has a lot to do with buy-in and the fact that both were #1 overall picks taken by us. IMO that drives the fanaticism and absolute blindness to shortcomings.

Yeah, Bradford wasn’t a “shitty QB” kinda a fail there my man

which pretty much segways into your other narrative

Hey, no hard feelings, agree to disagree, Stafford has thrown without a doubt some of thee most ridiculous shit the bed passes I’ve ever witnessed in my 50+years of Rams football, and unlike Goff, he’s a 33 year old vet

Zero chance with this guy if he doesnt tighten that up

 

[rdw]

I believe Stafford is a much better QB than Goff. They both play the most important position on the field. Therefore IMO the trade was worth it and in hindsight, I'd want them to make the trade again.
Whether or not we win a Superbowl is irrelevant. Is the QB position upgraded? Yes? Then the trade was worth it.

 

[Merlin]

Yeah, Bradford wasn’t a “shitty QB” kinda a fail there my man

Thank you for proving my point.

 

[OC--LeftCoast]

Thank you for proving my point.

Yeah

not agreeing with your POV but I appreciate the cheers...so next topic to argue

How about MS not being so skittish with half the pressure JG faced last year lol

 

[Ramlock]

Outstanding, haha...

So the article the Philly posted ain't wrong, but says he compares statistically to 2018 Goff. I loved 2018 Goff..... Most of the time, kinda like Staff so far this year. Do I think Stafford does enough in that SB to win it? You're darn tootin' I do. That throw to Cooks in the back of the endzone gets there a tick quicker for a TD coming off Matt's hand IMO. I think he makes a few more throws and the Rams win.

Also, 2018 Goff had Gurley (and then, maybe an even more efficient CJ), a healthy and sturdy OL and a top 5 defense. Hell, even the special teams were much better that year. This year has seen FAR more injury and Covid scratches all over the team, including ALL along the OL. We didn't find our bell cow RB until 2 weeks ago, and we lost Bobby Trees, who was part of the heart and soul of this team, much less the offense.

I would argue that MS season so far, in spite of all that, is more impressive than Goff in 2018. I can NOT over state how much I loved Goff that season btw. Still love the kid.

Honestly though, I was flabbergasted at how badly MS played Sunday. I really was. I was terrified every time he dropped back, just like Goff last season. I just didn't expect Stafford's bad to be THAT bad. He absolutely filled his diaper Sunday. We cannot have that shit. The team deserves better and a 12 year vet making those kind of mistakes is mind bending. I just hope he got it out of his system..

Gave you a high five for everything but the last paragraph. Which to me, is exaggerated.

Sorry to hear that you were terrified.

I thought he was worse in the Titan game.

 

[Ramlock]

And Goff destroyed the Chiefs on that Monday night game.

When Burrows does good to great games on a more consistent basis then I would probably change my mind

And put up 465 on the Vikes with 5 TDs and perfect passer rating

 

[Steve808]

I believe Stafford is a much better QB than Goff. They both play the most important position on the field. Therefore IMO the trade was worth it and in hindsight, I'd want them to make the trade again.
Whether or not we win a Superbowl is irrelevant. Is the QB position upgraded? Yes? Then the trade was worth it.

I think when they are compared side by side, Stafford is better than Goff. But Goff is 27 years old and Stafford is 33. The age difference does matter because we're going to have to replace Stafford in a handful of years.

I'm guessing the only way to say it was well worth it is if we win it all.

 

[Ramlock]

When it turns to who leaves next year and releasing Woods and Miller walking…I am bored to tears.

I’m willing to let Stafford play out.

When the exaggerating starts, I get bored as well.

 

[RamDino]

And strangely enough it was exactly the same effect with Bradford, there was a group all over his nuts who worshipped the guy and could never see that he was a shitty QB. A QB who lacked the balls and competitive fire to play at a high level in the NFL. So I think it has a lot to do with buy-in and the fact that both were #1 overall picks taken by us. IMO that drives the fanaticism and absolute blindness to shortcomings.

Bradford had a great arm and threw a very accurate pass. There were a couple seasons when I thought he and S Jackson were going to be very, very good. But two broken knees and several other beatings eventually took the wind out of Bradford's sails. And let's not forget it was Snead and McVay who gave Goff that record-breaking contract after 2 pro bowl years. We weren't the only ones blinded by his shortcomings.

And I don't think it is accurate to claim that Goff "lacked the balls and competitive fire to play at a high level". I will agree that he may have become a little "jumpy" after being sacked a few times and that combined with McVay getting in his head about going thru his reads, he may have regressed a little, but I would never question his competitive nature or his toughness.

Fans have different ways to show their fandom. I will be a Goff supporter for a long time, just like I was with Gurley. But some fans believe they are ex-Rams so there is no more attachment. Either way is fine... we just need to understand that some fans may feel upset when some of their favorite players are treated poorly... right or wrong. JMHO of course.

 

[RamDino]

I think when they are compared side by side, Stafford is better than Goff. But Goff is 27 years old and Stafford is 33. The age difference does matter because we're going to have to replace Stafford in a handful of years.

This is very important. Remember it took the Rams about 15 YEARS to find a good quarterback before Warner. Same for Goff, basically. Having a good QB for SIX EXTRA YEARS could prove to be a missed opportunity.

 

[jrry32]

The team has two wins. They are clearly in rebuild mode and do not need a 25M QB, regardless of his ability, haha.... That was absolutely part of the trade. Not sure how anyone could see it any other way.

Not sure how anybody could see it your way once the media released what the other offers are. We have a trade value chart that makes it quite clear that in order for our offer to be as good as Carolina's, Goff had to have positive value in the trade.

 

[Allen2McVay]

Why would we release Woods?

Age and Money.

I suggested it could happen after the 2022 season, when Woods will be 31 and have played ten seasons.

Plus, after 2022, Jefferson's rookie contract will have expired.

If would be more advantageous to trade Woods but a team would be taking-on his contract. if you consider the salaries and his age, even a WR-needy-team with cap space, is unlikely to offer much in return.

Long-term, big-$ contracts are structured for the team to get-out-of-the-deal before it expires by reducing the dead-$ in the later years of the contracts. You can look-up the details of all the Rams' contracts, and see how the cap-hit increases but the dead-$ decreases because the guaranteed-$ is mostly in the earlier years of those contracts.

I love Woods. I miss him out there. Not saying I want, or even expect him to be released after 2022. However, it is a possibility. It's just the reality of the NFL.

 

[Loyal]

Age and Money.

I suggested it could happen after the 2022 season, when Woods will be 31 and have played ten seasons.

Plus, after 2022, Jefferson's rookie contract will have expired.

If would be more advantageous to trade Woods but a team would be taking-on his contract. if you consider the salaries and his age, even a WR-needy-team with cap space, is unlikely to offer much in return.

Long-term, big-$ contracts are structured for the team to get-out-of-the-deal before it expires by reducing the dead-$ in the later years of the contracts. You can look-up the details of all the Rams' contracts, and see how the cap-hit increases but the dead-$ decreases because the guaranteed-$ is mostly in the earlier years of those contracts.

I love Woods. I miss him out there. Not saying I want, or even expect him to be released after 2022. However, it is a possibility. It's just the reality of the NFL.

Fuckin' hater! ~Bobby Trees

 

[VegasRam]

Yes, period.
BTW, couple things on the Stafford apology tour.

On the 4th down sneak, bad snap or handle by Matt, he grabbed his right hand after the play.

Also, on the TD (fumble), he chased down the runner and tripped him up with his right hand.

Might have fucked up a finger.

Just saying’.

 

[jrry32]

I absolutely respect what Goff did. He took us to a Super Bowl. But he is not the same guy. He is not good enough for a perennial contender IMO, the guy is a bottom third QB now and has two consecutive seasons of finishing in the 20s as a passer.

I'm guessing the Lions will draft a QB this offseason and next season will be his last keeping that seat warm. Then we'll see. But I expect he'll bounce around the league filling the role while teams draft their futures, which is that journeyman niche.

I'm hoping the Lions will trade Goff to Denver, Pittsburgh, or New Orleans. With QBs retiring, a draft class that doesn't look great, and some of the young guys not really panning out, we're seeing a shortage emerge at the position again. There are some good teams that badly need a QB. Goff can do the job in a good situation. He's simply not played like a QB who can elevate a team since 2018. But he's also generally not an anchor either. And that's more than you can say about some of the guys starting right now.

So will Holmes be a fool if he drafts a QB in your opinion? Because I'm thinking the accolades we hear about him around here are gonna shift quite a bit if he moves on from Jared.

Also here are Goff's last 3 seasons. That is a good sample size for evaluation. So for myself a GM drafting a QB of the future this offseason would be understandable:

View attachment 50680

Rookie contracts for QBs are worth their weight in gold. Lions are in the midst of a tear down, but they might be competitive quicker than expected. If I'm in Holmes's shoes and see a guy I think can be a franchise QB, I'd take him too.

 

[Kupped]

Right. But either way, you're still losing an elite receiver. And yes, they could keep the offensive linemen. I doubt it, though.

This, right now, with Von Miller, OBJ/Woods/Kupp having an elite year, an elite offensive line, a good coaching staff, a real quarterback is our best chance to win. We are not going to have the same elite players that we have this year. They will keep developing and finding players, but ultimately, we have a window. Prime Donald. Prime Ramsey. Prime Stafford. Prime Kupp. We are not going to have that forever.

They don't have Woods and OBJ having an elite year at the same time.
So.. from a performance perspective... having only one of them next year, if healthy, will be no different from this year. Depth? Sure.

I guess I just think "reload" sounds dramatic.

 

[Merlin]

I'm hoping the Lions will trade Goff to Denver, Pittsburgh, or New Orleans. With QBs retiring, a draft class that doesn't look great, and some of the young guys not really panning out, we're seeing a shortage emerge at the position again. There are some good teams that badly need a QB. Goff can do the job in a good situation. He's simply not played like a QB who can elevate a team since 2018. But he's also generally not an anchor either. And that's more than you can say about some of the guys starting right now.

I don't think Denver would be good for him tbh. I think he needs a shrewd offensive mind he trusts to help him get his game back.

So of those teams New Orleans makes the most sense, which Train did bring up. I can't stand the coach but he knows what he's doing and if Goff buys in and does the work he could get his mojo back there. Thing is I don't know if he'd be a target for New Orleans.

This league is tough on reclamation QBs. Requires a lot of resilience to get back and maybe I am selling him short too. But we'll see. I will say this, that I would like to see him carve out a role somewhere even though I no longer believe in him.

 

[Angry Ram]

Tom Brady
Justin Herbert
Derek Carr
Matt Stafford
Patrick Mahomes
Joe Burrow
Josh Allen
Kirk Cousins
Dak Prescott
Matt Ryan
Aaron Rogers
Kyler Murray
Trevor Lawrence
Jalen Hurts
Lamar Jackson
Russell Wilson

I'd throw in Ryan Tannehill, Carson Wentz, and Tua above him too. Deshaun Watson will be back. Hell I'd take the potential for Justin Fields.

 

[Memento]

They don't have Woods and OBJ having an elite year at the same time.
So.. from a performance perspective... having only one of them next year, if healthy, will be no different from this year. Depth? Sure.

I guess I just think "reload" sounds dramatic.

Reloading isn't too dramatic, I don't think. I never said we had to rebuild. Just reload from the draft, trades, and other improvements.

 

[jrry32]

I don't think Denver would be good for him tbh. I think he needs a shrewd offensive mind he trusts to help him get his game back.

So of those teams New Orleans makes the most sense, which Train did bring up. I can't stand the coach but he knows what he's doing and if Goff buys in and does the work he could get his mojo back there. Thing is I don't know if he'd be a target for New Orleans.

This league is tough on reclamation QBs. Requires a lot of resilience to get back and maybe I am selling him short too. But we'll see. I will say this, that I would like to see him carve out a role somewhere even though I no longer believe in him.

I expect Denver has a new HC next year. I'm thinking they probably go the offensive-minded HC route.