Stafford and those 2 first-rounders - worth it?

[XXXIVwin]

That's a myth. If you compare our offer with the other offers they had, Goff had positive value in the trade (roughly second round value). It's also worth noting that in trading Goff, we had to eat a crapload of cap. Between Goff's dead cap and Stafford's cap hit, we're spending $44.7 million on our QB1 this year. If we hadn't traded Goff, his cap hit would have been $34.625 million. So no, the trade did not get us out of cap hell. We were never in cap hell.

Ok, maybe not "cap hell", but "cap purgatory" at least. And the cap problems we avoided are more about NEXT year rather than the past or present. From my POV keeping Goff with his big contract would have put the Rams at a disadvantage in 2022, cap-wise.

Goff's cap number in 2022 is 31M, in 2023 it's 30M, and in 2024 it's 31M. Ouch.

If Lions were to cut Goff post-June 1 in 2022, they'd incur a 20M dead-money cap hit. Ouch again.

Granted the dead-money cap hit drops to only 5M in 2023. But the fact remains that Goff is a very expensive QB to have on your roster in both 2021 and 2022.

Would the Rams have wanted Goff and his huge contract in 21 and 22? Heck no, IMHO. Yes we gave up 2 firsts, but in exchange we get Stafford and some much needed cap room in 2022 for yet another SB run.

Stafford is consistently ranked as a top 5 or top 10 qb, while Goff is consistently ranked as a bottom 5 or bottom 10 QB.

Why don't we ask Detroit fans what they think about keeping Goff and his 31M cap number next year? I wonder how many Detroit fans are happy with the trade. Not many, I'd imagine.

Rams are legit SB contenders with Stafford this year, and I have every expectation that with a manageable cap situation they'll be legit contenders next year too. Would the Rams have been legit contenders with Goff in '21 and '22? In my opinion, no. And therefore the trade is already worth it.

EDIT: Below, a link to an article from Detroit's perspective. Granted it's a couple months old, but I'd guess the majority of Detroit fans agree with the sentiment of the article's title.

How long are the Lions stuck with Jared Goff?

Jared Goff was never going to be the long-term answer for the Lions under center, but how long are they actually stuck with him?

www.google.com

 

[PhillyRam]

We're losing one of Woods or OBJ because of cap reasons. You can't keep them and Kupp. We may lose all of the three offensive linemen, all of them starters.

But what I was saying is that this year is our absolute best shot that we have. We're going to have to win with the people we have because we won't have everyone for long.

They just need to hit on some later picks again and keep a few OL.

And they can play some games with Floyd's deal and Whit has to retire. Then if Stafford gets a new deal they could lower his cap number for next yr.

They can also structure a new OBJ deal to have a cheap first yr so Woods stays at least one more yr....and not sure if OBJ will be able to command a huge deal anyway.... Meaning north of 10-12M. Should be a little less than that and the first yr could be set up to be half that.

So to me next yr is the yr. They can keep some key guys and in yr 2 in the system, Stafford hopefully makes a big jump.

 

[PhillyRam]

I'm hoping the Lions will trade Goff to Denver, Pittsburgh, or New Orleans. With QBs retiring, a draft class that doesn't look great, and some of the young guys not really panning out, we're seeing a shortage emerge at the position again. There are some good teams that badly need a QB. Goff can do the job in a good situation. He's simply not played like a QB who can elevate a team since 2018. But he's also generally not an anchor either. And that's more than you can say about some of the guys starting right now.

Rookie contracts for QBs are worth their weight in gold. Lions are in the midst of a tear down, but they might be competitive quicker than expected. If I'm in Holmes's shoes and see a guy I think can be a franchise QB, I'd take him too.

Goff would have Washington, Denver, & Carolina in a much improved position for the playoffs.

He has nothing around him in Detroit, yet most weeks there games have come down to the final possession. He gets some credit for that even with his faults.

 

[Tano]

Way I see it this is the problem with the Goff backers. Everything was always someone else's fault. McVay was at fault, bad calls and scheme. The OL was at fault. The receivers were at fault. But not Jared oh no, poor Jared getting screwed over by everyone else.

You won't find a single person here acting that way about Stafford.

And strangely enough it was exactly the same effect with Bradford, there was a group all over his nuts who worshipped the guy and could never see that he was a shitty QB. A QB who lacked the balls and competitive fire to play at a high level in the NFL. So I think it has a lot to do with buy-in and the fact that both were #1 overall picks taken by us. IMO that drives the fanaticism and absolute blindness to shortcomings.

Cmon man - you are better than that

I have stated many times in other threads that Goff has his limitations.

I've also stated Stafford is better than Goff,

I just feel Goff got ripped too hard on this board when I was stating all last year that if he had a better center he would be doing a good to very good job the majority of the time. Except I will admit there were occasions last year that I scratched my head in befuddlement on some of Goff's plays.

Stafford is doing a very good to great job with this line 95% of the time. But sometimes he makes plays that make me scratch my head in befuddlement just like I did with Goff last year.

 

[Tano]

And put up 465 on the Vikes with 5 TDs and perfect passer rating

He didn't do that against the Vikings.

He's had a very good year this year but I want to see more

 

[jrry32]

Ok, maybe not "cap hell", but "cap purgatory" at least. And the cap problems we avoided are more about NEXT year rather than the past or present. From my POV keeping Goff with his big contract would have put the Rams at a disadvantage in 2022, cap-wise.

Goff's cap number in 2022 is 31M, in 2023 it's 30M, and in 2024 it's 31M. Ouch.

If Lions were to cut Goff post-June 1 in 2022, they'd incur a 20M dead-money cap hit. Ouch again.

Granted the dead-money cap hit drops to only 5M in 2023. But the fact remains that Goff is a very expensive QB to have on your roster in both 2021 and 2022.

Would the Rams have wanted Goff and his huge contract in 21 and 22? Heck no, IMHO. Yes we gave up 2 firsts, but in exchange we get Stafford and some much needed cap room in 2022 for yet another SB run.

Stafford is consistently ranked as a top 5 or top 10 qb, while Goff is consistently ranked as a bottom 5 or bottom 10 QB.

Why don't we ask Detroit fans what they think about keeping Goff and his 31M cap number next year? I wonder how many Detroit fans are happy with the trade. Not many, I'd imagine.

Rams are legit SB contenders with Stafford this year, and I have every expectation that with a manageable cap situation they'll be legit contenders next year too. Would the Rams have been legit contenders with Goff in '21 and '22? In my opinion, no. And therefore the trade is already worth it.

EDIT: Below, a link to an article from Detroit's perspective. Granted it's a couple months old, but I'd guess the majority of Detroit fans agree with the sentiment of the article's title.

How long are the Lions stuck with Jared Goff?

Jared Goff was never going to be the long-term answer for the Lions under center, but how long are they actually stuck with him?

www.google.com

I'm not going to bother with the opinions because they're speculative and beating a dead horse. The Lions reworked Goff's contract when he got there to open up more cap in 2021, so his contract with them is different than his contract with us. But yes, he would have cost a lot for us in 2022. Of course, that's moving the goal posts from your original claim that trading him saved us from cap hell this year, when it actually put us in a worse cap position. We weren't in cap hell or purgatory. There's a lot of flexibility to move money around.

 

[jrry32]

He didn't do that against the Vikings.

He's had a very good year this year but I want to see more

He did that against the Vikings in 2018.

 

[Tano]

He did that against the Vikings in 2018.

Oh he was talking about Goff - I thought he was talking about Burrows - my bad

 

[oldnotdead]

I think the Detroit fans are okay with Goff. They understand he isn't getting a whole lot of help on the OL, and WR. Also, this penchant to blame the QB for losses is a head shaker IMO. This is a team sport and anyone watching the Lions knows that the team would have 3-4 more wins if they had a better defense (currently ranked 25th by many services). Look at who his receivers are for gosh sakes. Even then Goff has a higher completion percentage and his INT % is better than Stafford's. All the Lions fans I know actually think it's a wash with Detroit getting a slight nod because the draft picks they have will go a long way in building this team. They feel the bigger problem is with the coaches. Campbell is a likable guy but from what I've heard most feel he's a poor HC and his staff is marginal. Remember Anthony Lynn was his OC for most of the season until Campbell had to take over.

Stafford in 2020 (15 games): Comp% 64.2, 26 TDs, 10 INTs, Sck 38
Goff 2021 (13 games): Comp% 67%, 17 TDs, 8 INTs, Sck 34

Stafford had the advantage of 2 good WRs and a TE with a ProBowl center. Goff doesn't have those WRs, and the TE and center are on IR yet his production is comparable with less talent around him. Stafford has thrown more INTs as a Ram than Goff as a Lion and he's got 3 top WRs and a very good TE.

No IMO the problem with Detroit isn't with Goff, it's with the defense and coaches. Goff had them ahead deep into the 4th qtr on 2-3 games only to lose the game when the D couldn't stop game-winning drives. Yet it's the media driving the Goff hate issue with nothing to really support it.

I give Stafford a pass on a lot of his struggles this year. He's learning a new system on the fly and McVay's system isn't QB friendly. That said I think Stafford is a better scheme fit for McVay's scheme than Goff was. On the flipside, Goff is also learning a new system with far less talent around him. But his production show's it's not the QB that is the problem for their record. Lack of talent on defense and marginal coaching are far more suspect.

Also, with the Rams, Morris may finally be coming around and understanding he can't keep starting off playing soft. That said he almost allowed the Vikes to get back in the game with going back to his soft bend-over and take it in the butt style. But at least the D is now playing like a mid-ling (16th ranked) defense.

 

[jrry32]

I think the Detroit fans are okay with Goff. They understand he isn't getting a whole lot of help on the OL, and WR. Also, this penchant to blame the QB for losses is a head shaker IMO. This is a team sport and anyone watching the Lions knows that the team would have 3-4 more wins if they had a better defense (currently ranked 25th by many services). Look at who his receivers are for gosh sakes. Even then Goff has a higher completion percentage and his INT % is better than Stafford's. All the Lions fans I know actually think it's a wash with Detroit getting a slight nod because the draft picks they have will go a long way in building this team. They feel the bigger problem is with the coaches. Campbell is a likable guy but from what I've heard most feel he's a poor HC and his staff is marginal. Remember Anthony Lynn was his OC for most of the season until Campbell had to take over.

Stafford in 2020 (15 games): Comp% 64.2, 26 TDs, 10 INTs, Sck 38
Goff 2021 (13 games): Comp% 67%, 17 TDs, 8 INTs, Sck 34

Stafford had the advantage of 2 good WRs and a TE with a ProBowl center. Goff doesn't have those WRs, and the TE and center are on IR yet his production is comparable with less talent around him. Stafford has thrown more INTs as a Ram than Goff as a Lion and he's got 3 top WRs and a very good TE.

No IMO the problem with Detroit isn't with Goff, it's with the defense and coaches. Goff had them ahead deep into the 4th qtr on 2-3 games only to lose the game when the D couldn't stop game-winning drives. Yet it's the media driving the Goff hate issue with nothing to really support it.

I give Stafford a pass on a lot of his struggles this year. He's learning a new system on the fly and McVay's system isn't QB friendly. That said I think Stafford is a better scheme fit for McVay's scheme than Goff was. On the flipside, Goff is also learning a new system with far less talent around him. But his production show's it's not the QB that is the problem for their record. Lack of talent on defense and marginal coaching are far more suspect.

Also, with the Rams, Morris may finally be coming around and understanding he can't keep starting off playing soft. That said he almost allowed the Vikes to get back in the game with going back to his soft bend-over and take it in the butt style. But at least the D is now playing like a mid-ling (16th ranked) defense.

Goff has played a lot better since he returned from his oblique injury. Taylor Decker coming back from his injury solidified the OL, and Amon-Ra St. Brown has broken out. Even with Hockenson on IR and Swift mostly hurt, Goff has managed to make do with Josh Reynolds and St. Brown. I think a big part of it is Dan Campbell becoming more comfortable with the play-calling and understanding what Goff does well.

Over his past four games, Goff has 9 TDs to 2 Ints, a 105.1 Passer Rating, and a 2-2 record. Imagine what they can do next year if Ragnow returns and they add some better weapons. I'm not sure the Lions are going to be looking to dump Goff. Although, frankly, he might be better off if they do if they don't get serious about adding some legit skill players.

 

[XXXIVwin]

I'm not going to bother with the opinions because they're speculative and beating a dead horse. The Lions reworked Goff's contract when he got there to open up more cap in 2021, so his contract with them is different than his contract with us. But yes, he would have cost a lot for us in 2022. Of course, that's moving the goal posts from your original claim that trading him saved us from cap hell this year, when it actually put us in a worse cap position. We weren't in cap hell or purgatory. There's a lot of flexibility to move money around.

I'll admit I worded it poorly in my first post. By "getting out of cap hell", I meant it to refer to honoring the entirety of Goff's contract (or having to figure out ways to escape it). And yes, I do indeed believe that any team paying Goff around 30 M per year for several years would suffer for that. (It's pretty obvious that no team in the NFL is going to pay Goff anywhere near that in 23 or 24). The Goff trade allowed us to bite the bullet in 2021 in exchange for more flexibility in the future.

No, I never meant to imply that the Goff trade saved us cap space in 2021. Agreed, just the opposite. It caused us to commit over $40M to QB position in 2021 (combining Stafford's salary with Goff's dead money hit). Agreed, the cap benefits of the Goff trade occur in 2022, in exchange for cap pain in 2021.

The Goff trade isn't emotionally charged for me like it seems to be for some posters. Goff is a great guy, but IMHO he's been exposed as having limitations as an NFL QB. Simple as that.

Cheers

 

[thirteen28]

Way I see it this is the problem with the Goff backers. Everything was always someone else's fault. McVay was at fault, bad calls and scheme. The OL was at fault. The receivers were at fault. But not Jared oh no, poor Jared getting screwed over by everyone else.

You won't find a single person here acting that way about Stafford.

I’m going to have to call you on that one. I have been very consistent in calling out McVay both with Goff last year and Stafford this year. If you look at the games where Stafford shit the bed this year, they were much like the games in which Goff did the same last year. McVay would forget the run and repeatedly put the QB in bad situations and expect him to bail out the whole team without any adjustments on the playcalling/scheme side. The Titans game in particular was, from a coaching perspective, almost a carbon copy of the Miami game last year. Defense balled out, but OL couldn’t deal with the pressure the opponent brought on passing downs. But the running game - which was working fine when tried - was mostly ignored, thereby requiring no adjustments by the Titans D. In both of those games, McVay was fucking abysmal as a play caller and our QB’s performance suffered as a result. In the first 9er game this year, the gameplan looked like one that McVay dusted off from last year, somehow expecting different results. Nope. Different QB but same results.

Flipping things around, the major contributing factor that helped Stafford out of his November slump was something we both pounded the table for - power running behind Michel. Once that got established, Stanford’s play returned to where we all want it to be.

If you look at the Vikings game this past weekend, it was a microcosm of the dynamic described above - the point in the game where McVay got away from the run coincided with Stafford’s worst stretch of the game. When McVay went back to it, the mistakes went away.

So yeah, I put a lot of the blame for Goff’s downfall here at the feet of McVay. McVay this year has shown many of the same patterns with Stafford this year as with Goff last year - with similar results. When McVay remembers that an offense predicated on marrying the run and the pass requires both partners to be active participants, his offense generally does well. When he abandons the run, things go sideways.

I’m tough as hell on McVay over this issue because I’m a few years he will have to start over with another QB. Whoever that is, they will certainly have their ups and downs. And he’s not going to have a vet like Stafford waiting in the wings if things go through a rough patch. You can make a solid argument that Stafford is more talented than Goff, but only a crackhead would say Goff is not talented. Jared has accomplished some great things in this league and some of them at a relatively early juncture. But he hit a rough patch, and McVay couldn’t guide him through it and instead just gave up on him. However, this might bring us to a hidden benefit of this trade that few are thinking about. When McVay’s bad tendencies that were detrimental to Goff reared their ugly heads again this year - with strikingly similar results - there was no longer anywhere to hide. McVay couldn’t blame Goff anymore, having jettisoned him off to Detroit. He was forced into some introspection I think he failed to do in the last two years, and it paid dividends when we started pounding the rock with Sony. So hopefully he can build on this experience for next time and not let the QB be the fall guy.

 

[jrry32]

I'll admit I worded it poorly in my first post. By "getting out of cap hell", I meant it to refer to honoring the entirety of Goff's contract (or having to figure out ways to escape it). And yes, I do indeed believe that any team paying Goff around 30 M per year for several years would suffer for that. (It's pretty obvious that no team in the NFL is going to pay Goff anywhere near that in 23 or 24). The Goff trade allowed us to bite the bullet in 2021 in exchange for more flexibility in the future.

No, I never meant to imply that the Goff trade saved us cap space in 2021. Agreed, just the opposite. It caused us to commit over $40M to QB position in 2021 (combining Stafford's salary with Goff's dead money hit). Agreed, the cap benefits of the Goff trade occur in 2022, in exchange for cap pain in 2021.

The Goff trade isn't emotionally charged for me like it seems to be for some posters. Goff is a great guy, but IMHO he's been exposed as having limitations as an NFL QB. Simple as that.

Cheers

In that case, I agree.

 

[Merlin]

If you look at the games where Stafford shit the bed this year, they were much like the games in which Goff did the same last year.

Here's Goff last year:

Here's Stafford this year:

Stafford has put up a better passer rating. More TDs. More yards. Dealt with more pressure. Thrown tougher passes (yards per average is tops in the NFL). And so on and so forth.

There has not been one game in which Stafford did what Goff did on more than one occasion during his last two seasons in horns, which is completely overlook blitz reads and pressure looks and struggle getting through basic reads. That, btw, was my biggest prob with him and it's what told me his head was not in the game. Whether it's the girlfriend or being butthurt with McVay I have no idea, however I do not doubt that looking at Detroit film will show multiple games with Goff doing the same thing this year.

Stafford has serious warts he's gotta work through here, but grasping the protections and getting through basic reads are not his problems. I've said it over and over, I've shown examples in stills, and all I get is denial however so let's just agree to disagree.

 

[PhillyRam]

Cmon man - you are better than that

I have stated many times in other threads that Goff has his limitations.

I've also stated Stafford is better than Goff,

I just feel Goff got ripped too hard on this board when I was stating all last year that if he had a better center he would be doing a good to very good job the majority of the time. Except I will admit there were occasions last year that I scratched my head in befuddlement on some of Goff's plays.

Stafford is doing a very good to great job with this line 95% of the time. But sometimes he makes plays that make me scratch my head in befuddlement just like I did with Goff last year.

He got ripped hard and it's funny that those same harsh critics are still trying to blame a ghost injury for Stafford's bad decisions... Kind of hilarious.

Yes, Stafford is more talented, but his supposed strength of being a more experienced QB, something McVay stressed as to one of the reason's for the change, hasn't exactly shown up. He is getting by mostly on his raw talent. Could have been one of his issues in Detroit in why he rarely raised them up as a great QB often does.

 

[thirteen28]

Here's Goff last year:

View attachment 50706

Here's Stafford this year:

View attachment 50707

Stafford has put up a better passer rating. More TDs. More yards. Dealt with more pressure. Thrown tougher passes (yards per average is tops in the NFL). And so on and so forth.

There has not been one game in which Stafford did what Goff did on more than one occasion during his last two seasons in horns, which is completely overlook blitz reads and pressure looks and struggle getting through basic reads. That, btw, was my biggest prob with him and it's what told me his head was not in the game. Whether it's the girlfriend or being butthurt with McVay I have no idea, however I do not doubt that looking at Detroit film will show multiple games with Goff doing the same thing this year.

Stafford has serious warts he's gotta work through here, but grasping the protections and getting through basic reads are not his problems. I've said it over and over, I've shown examples in stills, and all I get is denial however so let's just agree to disagree.

We don’t disagree on relative talent levels between the two. I think you missed the point I was making.

I was responding to the point you made that those of us who defended Goff and assigned a lot of the blame to McVay didn’t give the same slack to Stafford. I can’t speak for others, but that certainly doesn’t apply to me. Where I blamed McVay for putting his QB in bad situations last year, I’ve done the same this year.

Take another read of what I wrote.

 

[Giles]

I’m going to have to call you on that one. I have been very consistent in calling out McVay both with Goff last year and Stafford this year. If you look at the games where Stafford shit the bed this year, they were much like the games in which Goff did the same last year. McVay would forget the run and repeatedly put the QB in bad situations and expect him to bail out the whole team without any adjustments on the playcalling/scheme side. The Titans game in particular was, from a coaching perspective, almost a carbon copy of the Miami game last year. Defense balled out, but OL couldn’t deal with the pressure the opponent brought on passing downs. But the running game - which was working fine when tried - was mostly ignored, thereby requiring no adjustments by the Titans D. In both of those games, McVay was fucking abysmal as a play caller and our QB’s performance suffered as a result. In the first 9er game this year, the gameplan looked like one that McVay dusted off from last year, somehow expecting different results. Nope. Different QB but same results.

Flipping things around, the major contributing factor that helped Stafford out of his November slump was something we both pounded the table for - power running behind Michel. Once that got established, Stanford’s play returned to where we all want it to be.

If you look at the Vikings game this past weekend, it was a microcosm of the dynamic described above - the point in the game where McVay got away from the run coincided with Stafford’s worst stretch of the game. When McVay went back to it, the mistakes went away.

So yeah, I put a lot of the blame for Goff’s downfall here at the feet of McVay. McVay this year has shown many of the same patterns with Stafford this year as with Goff last year - with similar results. When McVay remembers that an offense predicated on marrying the run and the pass requires both partners to be active participants, his offense generally does well. When he abandons the run, things go sideways.

I’m tough as hell on McVay over this issue because I’m a few years he will have to start over with another QB. Whoever that is, they will certainly have their ups and downs. And he’s not going to have a vet like Stafford waiting in the wings if things go through a rough patch. You can make a solid argument that Stafford is more talented than Goff, but only a crackhead would say Goff is not talented. Jared has accomplished some great things in this league and some of them at a relatively early juncture. But he hit a rough patch, and McVay couldn’t guide him through it and instead just gave up on him. However, this might bring us to a hidden benefit of this trade that few are thinking about. When McVay’s bad tendencies that were detrimental to Goff reared their ugly heads again this year - with strikingly similar results - there was no longer anywhere to hide. McVay couldn’t blame Goff anymore, having jettisoned him off to Detroit. He was forced into some introspection I think he failed to do in the last two years, and it paid dividends when we started pounding the rock with Sony. So hopefully he can build on this experience for next time and not let the QB be the fall guy.

Couldn't have said it better.

 

[XXXIVwin]

I’m going to have to call you on that one. I have been very consistent in calling out McVay both with Goff last year and Stafford this year. If you look at the games where Stafford shit the bed this year, they were much like the games in which Goff did the same last year. McVay would forget the run and repeatedly put the QB in bad situations and expect him to bail out the whole team without any adjustments on the playcalling/scheme side. The Titans game in particular was, from a coaching perspective, almost a carbon copy of the Miami game last year. Defense balled out, but OL couldn’t deal with the pressure the opponent brought on passing downs. But the running game - which was working fine when tried - was mostly ignored, thereby requiring no adjustments by the Titans D. In both of those games, McVay was fucking abysmal as a play caller and our QB’s performance suffered as a result. In the first 9er game this year, the gameplan looked like one that McVay dusted off from last year, somehow expecting different results. Nope. Different QB but same results.

Flipping things around, the major contributing factor that helped Stafford out of his November slump was something we both pounded the table for - power running behind Michel. Once that got established, Stanford’s play returned to where we all want it to be.

If you look at the Vikings game this past weekend, it was a microcosm of the dynamic described above - the point in the game where McVay got away from the run coincided with Stafford’s worst stretch of the game. When McVay went back to it, the mistakes went away.

So yeah, I put a lot of the blame for Goff’s downfall here at the feet of McVay. McVay this year has shown many of the same patterns with Stafford this year as with Goff last year - with similar results. When McVay remembers that an offense predicated on marrying the run and the pass requires both partners to be active participants, his offense generally does well. When he abandons the run, things go sideways.

I’m tough as hell on McVay over this issue because I’m a few years he will have to start over with another QB. Whoever that is, they will certainly have their ups and downs. And he’s not going to have a vet like Stafford waiting in the wings if things go through a rough patch. You can make a solid argument that Stafford is more talented than Goff, but only a crackhead would say Goff is not talented. Jared has accomplished some great things in this league and some of them at a relatively early juncture. But he hit a rough patch, and McVay couldn’t guide him through it and instead just gave up on him. However, this might bring us to a hidden benefit of this trade that few are thinking about. When McVay’s bad tendencies that were detrimental to Goff reared their ugly heads again this year - with strikingly similar results - there was no longer anywhere to hide. McVay couldn’t blame Goff anymore, having jettisoned him off to Detroit. He was forced into some introspection I think he failed to do in the last two years, and it paid dividends when we started pounding the rock with Sony. So hopefully he can build on this experience for next time and not let the QB be the fall guy.

Great, thoughtful, logical post.

In years past I'd defend McVay, thinking, "It can't be so simple as saying he abandons the run too quickly." But now I think it really is that simple sometimes. McVay can get too enamored with his pass calls, and too quick to abandon the run-- especially with an early deficit.

And yes, having a power back like Michel makes a world of difference. Too often with Hendo, if he was stuffed for minimal or no gain on first down, we'd throw an incompletion on 2nd and long, and then have a 3 and out. With Michel, it seems much more likely that he'll give us at least "3rd and manageable" if we trust him with the ball on first and second down.

Bottom line: hope you're right that McVay can learn from his mistakes and recognize that his pass concepts work best when married to a power running game.

 

[Merlin]

I'm not so sure re: McVay but I will agree that he's probably hard on his QBs. Since that is the extension of the coach on the field it makes sense that he's constantly pushing for higher efficiency and perfection.

With Goff maybe it just wore him down idk. No way to know. Could be the girlfriend too though or just him getting paid, both those things are real.

With Stafford it might make it hard for him to get past wanting to accept failure on a play. I mean I think Stafford being new to exposure to McVay has plenty of resilience in the hard coaching and all that. Wanting to impress him, live up to the trade, etc., though... Those things are also real.

McVay interestingly enough did mention on the weekly vid series that he doesn't want to mess with Stafford's competitive fire which he loves. But he's going to have to. Because if he can get that right and find that balance it's gonna be a huge boost for their chances.

 

[Picked4td]

lol so much goff hate in here. i hope any year the rams are no longer sb contenders, goff is out there winning one. mostly just to spike so many haters here