Reasons for WR at 19

[dang]

But there is quite a difference in going from more gap blocking to adding a fullback and lead plays. And the trend went from a few lead plays with Skow to almost none. So your projection, IMO, was not based on what they were doing. It just seemed to be because you say Bowers can lead block on an NFL level that McVay would then use that kind of play.

That's just too many "ifs". If McVay wanted to lead block, he'd lead block. Changing from OZ to duo and gap blocking did not mean more ISO stuff ... so you, IMO were reaching. If he wanted to do that he'd get a true lead blocker, not a tight end who, on occasion, lead blocked. Sorry, no sale, it's not how McVay works.


I only bring it up because you brought it up. I don't think Rams use lead blocks no matter who the personnel. They block the way they block and what is consistent is how the WRs block from tight or "nasty" formations.



But it's pure speculation based on what you think of him. And yes, teams that have a FB do it on a high level. and and "good enough". Juice is a great lead blocker.

And I understand you are not saying a full-time position -- trust me I get what you are saying. I am only replying to your comments. I don't think, even if Rams had him, that he'd lead block at all. I don't think he does it much in college. This is just a gimmick --- something he can do once in a while not as a main course.

Skow can PLAY FB, just does not mean he's good at it. Good enough to use 20 times in one season. So what if a TE can do that? Higs could have done it. Kelce *could* do it. Kittle *could* do it ... they put guards and tackles in on short yardage to di it on a rare occasion. No matter what, it's not enough to pick him over an edge if the talent were roughly equal. That's my view.

So Heidi Klum can cook? Great. But not a difference-maker.

I am refuting that he's Juice/Deebo/Kelce/Kupp all rolled into one. Sorry, that's not what he looks like to me. I am not trying to change your mind, just not buying it. I've seen a little football in my time and any team would be lucky if he's as good as Kittle or Kelce since the vast majority of the time he would be doing what they do.

I still think you just like the kid and are hyping him beyond being a good prospect as a move TE. All the rest? I don't buy based on what I see and what others say.




Actually, no, there are elite edges who were not good run-stoppers. And they play and make millions in NFl and go to the HOF.

But the point I misunderstood is why you call Ngakoue " a situational pass rusher". That term, to me, has meaning. He's a starting DE, not a situational guy. he is not a good run player, but he is good enough to stay in the game... not go into the game only in passing situations. And as a DE he's been decent for a 3rd rounder. If Rams get 65 sacks over next 8 years out of Young, a 3rd round pick, they'd be saving in the streets.

Second part is you are assuming Turner (I think that is what you are saying) cannot play the run or won't. I think that assumes too much. That he cannot do it. It's a learned trait.

And again, the Ngakoue comparison is confusing. He was a 3rd round pick who was 6-2, 245 pounds who ran a 4.7 or 4.8, Turner is maybe the same size or a little bigger but runs a sub-4.5.

He played at a powerhouse --- that kind of speed makes a huge difference.

So yeah, I miss your point on Ngakoue. I don't get the comparison on speed, skills, ratings coming out of college, etc.


Well, my point is they DO and I can show that. Sure, you can question them, we all can. But I can question you. And you can question me. It's all fair game.



Again, this is just you saying you disagree with some of the ratings of Turner. Okay, fine you disagree. But they, disagree with you.
If you have examples, I would be glad to look at them. But I see Turner being rated at worst, top 15 and Bowers also in the top 15, with both likely gone by 19 anyway and both will be taken about the same.

if that is not ranked the same, hence, if equal, then go with the edge rusher comment.


That's fine. And that is why I am engaging. I am only pointing out this exact thing. You are hyping a kid you like. That's fine. I am only responding to say I disagree and I disagree based on a lot of factors. I am not trying to change your mind. You're locked in and that'ss your right.

I've just tried to day I have heard hype before and will hear hype again for various players. And to me, this kid is seemingly a very good prospect. I just don't subscribe that he's what you portend he is. We just disagree.

Sooooo mannny words. Sooooo little time. Sorry my ADD makes me a dick sometimes.

 

[WestCoastRam]

She said in today’s 11Personnel that they were trying to trade up for an offensive skill position player. TE, WR, RB

So maybe :
Jordan Addison
Jaxon Smith-Njigba
Zay Flowers
Dalton Kincaid

I stand corrected! I did just hear that. Of that list, my guess would be Kincaid too. Maybe Flowers.

 

[JimY53]

Sooooo mannny words. Sooooo little time. Sorry my ADD makes me a dick sometimes.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Well, it matters to me. The degree of change. No matter what this TE can do, Rams are not going to lead block. If they wanted to do that they would draft a FB---then I would believe it.

I just disagree.

Because you're an Xs & Os guy going back and forth with a draftnik speaking in generalities. And you are speaking as if this would be a main focus which hasn't been expressed. Just a potential option.

That's not change, that's trying to form what he wanted to do all along. It was just his first and second year in NFL. He's now got a track record. He's not a guy who is going to run ISOs and leads. it's not his DNA.

He had a track record of using mostly zone rushing, too. CHANGE.

Well, it seemed like that is what you were saying, this one thing elevates him into something super special. I thought you were saying that he was a Juice/Deebo/Kupp etc combination and while he may be a great prospect I was not buying that hype and you said those things made him worthy of trading up for or going to get him, things like that.

If you are not saying that then fine. I was only pushing back on what I saw as predraft hype I've seen for a couple of decades ... this guy can do this, this guy and do that as a TE and then they end up being good players ... and all the time the best TEs, Kittle and Kelce, we not hyped as much. They went later in draft not super high.

No. I am saying the guy is capable of filling multiple roles on offense and has some abilities that others have. I don't know who Juice is, but he's a YAC monster like Deebo as he breaks tackles running through people. He can do everything Sam Laporta can do. And he can be an effective FB ala Kyle Juszczyk coming out of the backfield. Maybe that's Juice you are referring to who btw, was more of a TE coming out of college. I was banging the drum for him as I believe he lead his team in receptions or was close to it, if I'm not mistaken.

Well, with Yannick his listed position and what he was playing were the same. He was a starter, though. You just say things differently than I am used to. To me, Yannick was a starter, not a situational guy. Just like Dwight Freeney was a starter, not a situational guy but maybe you'd call him a situational pass rusher.

I'd call him Freeney a starting DE who didn't play the run very well. So, I take it you were really saying Yannick SHOULD have not been a starter, that he should have been a situational player because of his weakness. So fine, I better understand your verbiage for things.
When I see guys playing out of position, like a safety playing LBer, like Mark Barron did I would refer to him as a safety playing LBer. Just like it seems you are saying. But, I dunno, Yannick was a DE playing DE ... but hey, we all have our vocabularies. No one is right or wrong ... I just didn't get why Yannick was mentioned at all for the reasons stated --- plus he was pretty good for a 3rd rounder.

Woah. Freeney fan here. Freeney vs. the run and Yannick vs. the run are two different things altogether.

These are ones I have been seeing, and they are major outlets, Sorry, but these seem equal to me. Some have Bowers higher, some have Turner higher.

Daniel Jeremiah's
Bowers 7
Turner 12

PFF
Bowers 7
Turner 16

CBS
Bowers 11
Turner 7

CBS
Bowers 13
Turner 7

33rd team
Bowers 8
Turner 10

So, we have different perceptions of what equal is. I see some with one guy higher, others with the other guy. *shrug*

Draft Network
Bowers 4
Turner 14

Dane Brugler
Bowers 5
Turner 12

PFF
Bowers 7
Turner 16

Yahoo (Tice)
Bowers 4
Turner 14

Bleacher Report
Bowers 2
Turner 12

Kiper
Bowers 6
Turner 10

Fox Sports (Rob Rang)
Bowers 5
Turner 20

NBC (Conner Rodgers)
Bowers 5
Turner 14

Sporting News
Bowers 4 (Iyer)
Turner 10

Sports Talk (Teets)
Bowers 7
Turner 27

And our rating exchange here isn't even the best way compare as one could see only 5 blue chip talents in an entire draft and see a major fall off after that. Does that mean #6, 7, or 8 are rated closely to those top 5. NO.

What might also help in the future is not just looking at media draftnik rating, but actually listening to how they come up with them if you have the time. Some stand their ground, but a lot of them fall into group think and make changes as to not be embarrassed at a later date. And they openly admit it.

Not only that, but from time to time it appears that some listed grades don't seem to go with the pros & cons they have listed. Haven't quite figured that one out yet, but perhaps it's simply a general grade that takes little to no account as to team fits. ie. Player A would rate higher or Team B who run one particular scheme vs. another.

Well, draftniks do that all the time. And if you don't then fine. But in the vast majority of evals you see comps. It happens with draftniks, scouts do it. You read a report, "Compare to such and such".

When draftniks offer comparisons, they are basically attempting to provide someone that has similar traits. And if you listen to some of their interviews, you'll find that some are even forced by editors to add them for the non-draftnik people who come aboard about this time of the year.

I will maintain edge is more valuable than a move TE if both are equally talented. I will also say Rams need an edge for than a move TE. I don't think Rams will take this kid, and if they do, will change the offense in any significant way. If they take him he'd play where Gerald Everett did.

In the meantime, Rams would be better off getting a great single-side WR than a move TE, again, if equally talented. That's just my view.

Sorry, I simply don't agree with you. I am not saying you are 100% wrong or I am 100% right. I am saying I have enough information to believe what I believe, this stuff isn't new to me.

I think if Bowers is as good as Kelce --- the odds? Pretty low. That's just me.

I agree that EDGE is more valuable than a move TE if both are equally talented.

We've already established that you have more of a need-based mindset and I lean more towards BPA (within reason). And that you focus more on the positions while I focus more on the players.

Oh well. Here's an interesting take on Turner. Starts at about the 31:28 mark.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pisRLs-dXIw

 

[Allen2McVay]

...


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pisRLs-dXIw

There's so much useless bull-shit out there right now; and the same 25 players are discussed ad nauseum. However, this discussion and exchange was outstanding, in my opinion.

Thank you for posting.

 

[snackdaddy]

I'll be glad when the draft is over. I imagine for a couple days the discussion will be what they shoulda done. Then we'll be talking about what our new guys can do.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

@JimY53 @Memphis Ram

In 2022, when the Rams lost Stafford, Kupp, AD and 4/5ths of the Oline, we saw McVay use Ben Skowronek in a role were he did multiple things. He was a lead blocker, a TE, a runner, and a receiver. I was loving it. A lot of fans loved it. Maybe that was a necessity, but it worked well with a kid that is much less talented than Bowers. It also proves that McVay has it in his tool bag to mix into his offense. He's not completely stuck in his ways.

1. McVay has spoken about how important it is too stay ahead of the league by being willing to make changes to scheme
2. Kupp's age and injury history, may mean he won't be around too many more season's. Nacua has had injuries in college. Then consider that McVay loves weapons and tried to get one in the last draft in round 1.
3. When it comes to taking the best player available that could be Bowers. I can totally understand if McVay were to trade up for Bowers. Brock Bowers is likely to be in the Rams tier 1 grouping of players. Tier 1 is usually a pretty small group.

I'm guessing you both know that Snead uses the tier system, where he groups players into tiers. So by pick 19, if nobody is still on the board in tier 1, they look at how many players they give a tier two grade too, and if there are enough of them, they are usually looking to trade back. If there is only one player from tier 1 on the board at pick 19, then they pick him.

If they see one of the tier one players dropping within a tradeable range, they try to trade up to get that player. Obviously, teams don't always agree on a trade, or the team with the next pick may covet the same player.

 

[WestCoastRam]

So much ink spilled for a guy (Bowers) who won't even be there for us and who it would be terribly cost prohibitive for us to jump up and draft.

 

[bwdenverram]

View: https://x.com/owehsburner/status/1765626573208555609?s=46&t=gEUcKN5ugzpn7hhJJvpNKw

Some of the comments lol

It's like Kupp and Nacua morphed into one

 

[JimY53]

@JimY53 @Memphis Ram

In 2022, when the Rams lost Stafford, Kupp, AD and 4/5ths of the Oline, we saw McVay use Ben Skowronek in a role were he did multiple things. He was a lead blocker, a TE, a runner, and a receiver. I was loving it. A lot of fans loved it. Maybe that was a necessity, but it worked well with a kid that is much less talented than Bowers. It also proves that McVay has it in his tool bag to mix into his offense. He's not completely stuck in his ways.

For one, I happen the love lead-blocking plays, so I watch for them. And at some point I was keeping track of how many times Skow did it. They did it for a while, but then abandoned it. The most snaps they had with Skow as a FB was 19 and that was about 1/3 of the 2022 total... 66 plays Skow was a FB

How many in 2023?

Five.

So, you tell me --- is that enough to matter? Looks more like desparaion was the mother of invention ... it was a 1-2 game gimmick, I think ... when they were having online issues

1. McVay has spoken about how important it is too stay ahead of the league by being willing to make changes to scheme

Yeah, I get it, but as I said --- they did something 66 times in 2022 with a guy and then 5 times the next year. I am suggesting that is not a change of scheme.

1. Kupp's age and injury history, may mean he won't be around too many more season's. Nacua has had injuries in college. Then consider that McVay loves weapons and tried to get one in the last draft in round 1.

1. When it comes to taking the best player available that could be Bowers. I can totally understand if McVay were to trade up for Bowers. Brock Bowers is likely to be in the Rams tier 1 grouping of players. Tier 1 is usually a pretty small group.

I don't know what they will do. But to trade up to where Bowers will be would cost more than just a 2nd round pick... so, you think he's so special that Rams would give a #1, #2 and maybe the late #3 to get to 8-9 in the draft -- you have to get ahead of the Jets

So you think it's possible Rams give up 2 premium picks to swap #1 picks for him?
Would YOU do that?

I'm guessing you both know that Snead uses the tier system, where he groups players into tiers. So by pick 19, if nobody is still on the board in tier 1, they look at how many players they give a tier two grade too, and if there are enough of them, they are usually looking to trade back.

Yes, aware of basics, not specifics.

If there is only one player from tier 1 on the board at pick 19, then they pick him.

Within reason. Not an absolute.

In 2017, for example if there was a 3-tech available and fell to 19 and they already had Donald--they don't take him.
In 2018, say a QB fell to where they were, a tier 1 guy --- they wouldn't take him because at that time they had Goff.

If they see one of the tier one players dropping within a tradeable range, they try to trade up to get that player. Obviously, teams don't always agree on a trade, or the team with the next pick may covet the same player.

As I said, you have to presume Bowers is going to the Jets --- so, to get him you need to get to 8 or 9 ... to get there based on both trade charts --- you give the #19 the #52 and #99 ... 3 picks.

Rams need edge for sure, DT for sure, also other needs --- so you think they would pick a TE, even one who will lead block maybe 66 times in a season (stretching it) while giving away a 52 overall pick and the 99?

Not seeing it. I make it a habit of saying never say never, but Rams are on verge of being division champs the way to get there is to replace the snaps of Williams ... however they want to do it and have an effective edge ... and also they could use a WR and CB and some other things.

You cannot address that with a 1st and a 3rds-- IMO

 

[JimY53]

Because you're an Xs & Os guy going back and forth with a draftnik speaking in generalities. And you are speaking as if this would be a main focus which hasn't been expressed. Just a potential option.

He had a track record of using mostly zone rushing, too. CHANGE.

But using a FB 66 times in 2022 then 5 times does not (in my opinion, obviously you disagree) constitute change. Going from 60% zone blocking to 60% Gap blocking does constitute change ... but we can agree to disagree.

No. I am saying the guy is capable of filling multiple roles on offense and has some abilities that others have. I don't know who Juice is, but he's a YAC monster like Deebo as he breaks tackles running through people. He can do everything Sam Laporta can do. And he can be an effective FB ala Kyle Juszczyk coming out of the backfield. Maybe that's Juice you are referring to who btw, was more of a TE coming out of college. I was banging the drum for him as I believe he lead his team in receptions or was close to it, if I'm not mistaken.

Yes, I can spell his name, and he goes by Juice, so I just type that, and yes he was a TE in college. And he converted to FB in NFL.

Woah. Freeney fan here. Freeney vs. the run and Yannick vs. the run are two different things altogether.

Freeney was terrible vs the run. Read he had 35 or so run stuffs ... tackles on RBs for losses. Not including sacks, which the TFL stat does -- I think PFF has both graded poorly, orange, red, yellow ---- maybe Yannick was lower but it's the same concept. Freeney got got much better pass rush but there are reasons teams ran for 4.3-4.5-4.7, 5.0 yards a carry over the years - and Freeney was one of them.

But I like him ... he was HOFer. But, IMO, and this is just me, not a HOFer vs the run -- worse than Sapp even

Draft Network
Bowers 4
Turner 14

Dane Brugler
Bowers 5
Turner 12

PFF
Bowers 7
Turner 16

Yahoo (Tice)
Bowers 4
Turner 14

Bleacher Report
Bowers 2
Turner 12

Kiper
Bowers 6
Turner 10

Fox Sports (Rob Rang)
Bowers 5
Turner 20

NBC (Conner Rodgers)
Bowers 5
Turner 14

Sporting News
Bowers 4 (Iyer)
Turner 10

Sports Talk (Teets)
Bowers 7
Turner 27

And our rating exchange here isn't even the best way compare as one could see only 5 blue chip talents in an entire draft and see a major fall off after that. Does that mean #6, 7, or 8 are rated closely to those top 5. NO.

Well, I can only go by what I read. I don't scout the guys myself. And when I post things I do myself, I can vouch for them. In this case I go by what I found and I found those with Turner higher on a few and Bowers on others. You found some I have not heard of with Turner faw lower -- Teets and Rang ... that, to me is a big difference.

The difference between 4 and 10 and 6 and 10 ... to me is nothing given the positional value.

What you are saying you see it differently, and that fine. And you and these experts are saying Bowers is higher in terms of being in the top 5 and there is a gap in the draft, like in 1981, draft was 8 deep, Rams thought. Or in 1982 when it was 2 deep or 1983 when it was maybe 20 deep.

I get it. I was just taking into account positional value and Rams needs. Therefore, trading up would not be wise for a TE, not matter how good. And also this: Is Bowers actually that good? I don't know but I have seen hype before and will see it again and I gave examples.

And gave examples of the two best TEs coming later, 2nd, 3rd, 5th, etc. So, to me, there is no reason to trade up or to take a TE if they are evenly rated.

You are simply saying Bowers is better than Turner. I see their value as basically the same. W

What might also help in the future is not just looking at media draftnik rating, but actually listening to how they come up with them if you have the time. Some stand their ground, but a lot of them fall into group think and make changes as to not be embarrassed at a later date. And they openly admit it.

Well, I don't follow draftniks and don't care what they say or do. I begin to watch guys when they get to NFL. I watch some before the draft but not a ton. So, if you say that some of these guys fall into group think or are not good, or whatever --- I believe that. It is about as inexact a science as there is in football. Pro player personnel can be risky but it's far better than the draft.

Bottom line --- I don't know enough about any of these guys (the names you listed above- -- have not heard of most of them)

Not only that, but from time to time it appears that some listed grades don't seem to go with the pros & cons they have listed. Haven't quite figured that one out yet, but perhaps it's simply a general grade that takes little to no account as to team fits. ie. Player A would rate higher or Team B who run one particular scheme vs. another.

Have no idea. I don't vouch for their work. I only rely on it when doing what little predraft stuff I do - i.e. what Rams may do.

When draftniks offer comparisons, they are basically attempting to provide someone that has similar traits. And if you listen to some of their interviews, you'll find that some are even forced by editors to add them for the non-draftnik people who come aboard about this time of the year.

I get that. But you need to understand that it has been going on forever. They did it in 1981 (first year I watched draft) they did it with Buschbaum, Ourlads, all the stuff when you had to but books to get this stuff ... comps are a thing and they are now. If some are being forced, I don't know about it -- same as above.

I do know this--I recognize hype. And have seen it before with players, including the TEs I mention. They were this and that and they turned out to be good but not the game-changers they were touted to be. They missed on Kittle and Kelce, two of the best.

What this is to me, and you are kind of confirming it --- - they are doing a lot of guesswork. And they do it for hits. And that is fine, it's how they make money. But as I said and you seem to be agreeing it is so inexact that it doesn't really carry a lot of weight.

I am most familiar with Kiper and Mayock and I have seen their blunders and I assume all these guys are the same. It's a cottage industry with a lot of error. And that is what I have been saying.

No matter if the yare rated the same or if they are different with Bowers being far superior, there is chance of failure for both, chance of success for both or one fails one success. I don't know. I don't think anyone knows.

I agree that EDGE is more valuable than a move TE if both are equally talented.

That's all I was saying.

We've already established that you have more of a need-based mindset and I lean more towards BPA (within reason). And that you focus more on the positions while I focus more on the players.

I disagree. I think the same as you--BPA (within reason).
I agree that I focus and positions of need.

That is why I was mad Rams took Tute vs Humphrey for example. And why I was shouting for IOL last year. I said many times on another board that the lack or Rams picking an online no higher than 3rd round cam back to bite them. Hav was last 2nd rounder until last year.

So, yeah, when I see a team that lacks edge pressure I want that addressed---with the best available player. But, if there is a better CB or DI or WR at 19 than edge, go for the others. But if roughly equal, let's call it tiers, if they are in same tier --- get the edge. It is the reason Rams lost and needs to be addressed. No lower than 2nd round.

The odds of success for an edge below round 2 is very low. And THAT is something I have looked at. Byron Young may end up the best 3rd round or lower OLBer edge in a generation. It's rare to get a good one low.

Oh well. Here's an interesting take on Turner. Starts at about the 31:28 mark.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pisRLs-dXIw

I will watch it ... but let me guess --- it says he has weaknesses?

 

[DzRams]

So much ink spilled for a guy (Bowers) who won't even be there for us and who it would be terribly cost prohibitive for us to jump up and draft.

This is draft season, sometimes called silly season. All things should be discussed!

And what is "cost prohibitive?" What if Bowers slides to the 12-14 range? How do we know that McVay wouldn't have a lot of interest in moving up for him?

 

[Memphis Ram]

@JimY53
I don't believe that we are on the same page on everything, but we've told each other that we disagree with each other enough.

I'm done.

 

[JimY53]

@JimY53
I don't believe that we are on the same page on everything, but we've told each other that we disagree with each other enough.

I'm done.

 

[WestCoastRam]

This is draft season, sometimes called silly season. All things should be discussed!

And what is "cost prohibitive?" What if Bowers slides to the 12-14 range? How do we know that McVay wouldn't have a lot of interest in moving up for him?

I wouldn't pay to move up for him at 12-14 given what most likely would be avail at 19 but hard to know without seeing the board. I don't think McVay will either but there's a small chance.

Only thing we can know is what would you pay, I guess?

I would much rather pay a greater premium to try to get Odunze, FWIW. And even then, I don't want to do that that much.

 

[Memphis Ram]

So much ink spilled for a guy (Bowers) who won't even be there for us and who it would be terribly cost prohibitive for us to jump up and draft.

Maybe. Maybe not.

Bowers could slide on draft day simply due to his position. As Daniel Jeremiah stated, if he's a top 10 pick, his rookie contract will be comparable to the league's top veteran TEs which won't fly for some teams.

Early on, many mocked him to the Chargers until Harbaugh pointed out how he feels about the OLIne.

Now the common spots are either the Jets and Broncos. However, the Jets have two aging injury prone tackles and need to keep Rodgers healthy. Broncos? They need a QB and don't have a 2nd round pick.

From Denver down to the Bengals you have a lot of teams that look to be set at TE. And the Bengals also need a OT.

So unless someone trades up it's possible the Rams could have a decision to make if he gets close to or past the Bengals at #18.

 

[DzRams]

I don't know what they will do. But to trade up to where Bowers will be would cost more than just a 2nd round pick... so, you think he's so special that Rams would give a #1, #2 and maybe the late #3 to get to 8-9 in the draft -- you have to get ahead of the Jets.

I think the argument being discussed is in the scenario that Bowers falls. If he gets past the Jets, and is available in the 12-14 range, the Rams may have interest and their 1st and 2nd could get it done.

Within reason. Not an absolute.

In 2017, for example if there was a 3-tech available and fell to 19 and they already had Donald--they don't take him.
In 2018, say a QB fell to where they were, a tier 1 guy --- they wouldn't take him because at that time they had Goff.

Snead has described the system. Their board is structured in Tiers, arranged in most acute need from greatest to least. All players don't make it on the board. If a player is not a scheme fit, they're not on the board. If a player has serious enough character/red flag issues, they're off the board. If they absolutely don't need a 3T or a QB, those players wouldn't even be on the board. That addresses your two examples.

Rams need edge for sure, DT for sure, also other needs....

Not seeing it. I make it a habit of saying never say never, but Rams are on verge of being division champs the way to get there is to replace the snaps of Williams ... however they want to do it and have an effective edge ... and also they could use a WR and CB and some other things.

You cannot address that with a 1st and a 3rds-- IMO

This is YOUR way to get there. I strongly doubt it's the Rams way. May I suggest that the Rams look at team building and strategizing differently than you? You seem very need-focused. Based on my interpretation of their history, I believe the Rams to be more impact-player focused as @Memphis Ram has pointed out.

Snead is always talking about getting the elite player and filling in around them. He's called them various names. Load-bearing walls (Stafford, Kupp, AD), game wreckers (AD, Ramsey), difference makers, etc. Other than words, their actions have shown their belief system. They've consistently traded 1st and 2nd round picks for these difference-makers.

So the idea that they may package multiple picks to move up for a player they deem elite is not far-fetched. In fact, I'd say it has a strong probability of happening.

Sure, they have the needs you identified above. Who's to say they can't fill those in the 2nd to 7th rounds? Last year they may have had the best Rams draft of all time and they didn't have a 1st round pick. I seriously doubt they're panicking about filling those needs like it sounds you are.

 

[KA210927]

If they spent a 1st rounder on an offensive weapon I pray that it is somehow Bowers. I want the rams to be a team with a top 5 tight end for the next decade.

 

[dang]

It's like Kupp and Nacua morphed into one

Looks faster than Kupp but similar YAC moves and sticky hands. I like what I see but what I haven’t seen too much of him. Gone by very early R2 so how would Rams pull that off?

 

[DzRams]

I wouldn't pay to move up for him at 12-14 given what most likely would be avail at 19 but hard to know without seeing the board. I don't think McVay will either but there's a small chance.

Only thing we can know is what would you pay, I guess?

I would much rather pay a greater premium to try to get Odunze, FWIW. And even then, I don't want to do that that much.

I can't say I personally would be thrilled about moving up for Bowers since I haven't dug into him much. I also agree that I would much rather pay more to move up for Odunze.

That said, the reason I don't eliminate these move up possibilities is because McSnead has shown a penchant for using high draft picks for what they deem to be difference-makers. So for me it's more 'what do I think they're going to do', not what would I do.

I think there is about a 40% probability they move up.