Raheem Morris discussion thread

[payote75]

So McVay is going to fire his best buddy after the season but in the mean time he's going to give the DC job in de facto to somebody who's never coached? If he were to shit on his buddy he'd give somebody on the staff the job but does anybody honestly think Morris is going to get benched this week?

No no not what I said at all. First everyone is mcvays buddy til they aren't. What I meant is weddle will hopefully help right the ship the disarray we saw on that last drive and throughout the 2nd half was bad. Weddle might change calls he might make suggestions he may have a better feel for what's going on and where to place people. We will see physically how he is but mentally the dude is sharp and this is not to insult Morris but I bet weddle would be a better defensive coordinator. I don't think mcvay would just fire Morris or anyone at this time it's to late and it just wouldn't be kosher however I think he saw especially on that last drive and placing his trust in the def unit that a team with no Trent Williams and a torn thumb jimmy g who is average when healthy went through our defense with ease.

I'm trying to be positive but in the back of my head I'm thinking unless we blow people out what would a Brady or worse a Rodgers do to us especially right now with a decimated secondary. I think that's why the whiners loss was a weird feeling and has been all week. I think it's because it kind of left me thinking we were helpless. Like a loss is a loss but the whiners loss but this one had be dazed a feeling off helplessness.

 

[oldnotdead]

McVay is shitty at halftime adjustments. His idea of halftime adjustments is to simply go deeper into his playbook. So he's not going to fire Morris yet. But then it's on him if it costs the Rams a shot at the Super Bowl. Remember they have gone all in. Does that mean only with players? Players are only as good as what the coaches will allow them to be. Ramsey, Beckham, and Miller were all castoffs. Particularly Beckham and Miller. who have shown they are still very productive players if used properly.

My reservations about Fangio is that the Broncos were worse defending the run than the Rams this year. That wouldn't bode well when playing the Niners twice a year. IMO the Niners will be the primary competition in the division for at least the foreseeable future. I think Murray is burning out which is why the Cards tend to fade as the season wears on. Regardless of Wilson, the Seahawks will be in a rebuild for the next two years.

That said Zimmer, or Fangio would be an upgrade over Morris.

 

[thirteen28]

They were also a bottom third defense in getting off the field on third down all season long. Their very nature encourages opponents eating clock and chilling their offense.

There is plenty of blame to go around. But when so many pieces of our secondary struggle this season after playing better in 2020 it stinks of preparation and coaching and gameday usage.

These two points really hit home with me, and drive my opinion of the start contrast between last year's D and this years. Last year's D usually had multiple 3-outs per game, and not due to poor execution by other team but our guys being in position to disrupt and make plays. This year it seemed like we rarely had a 3-out, and we saw time and time again where big cushions would be given on 3rd and short, allowing for one easy conversion after another. That is absolutely, unequivocally scheme related.

As for the secondary, where it really stands out to me is the difference between DWill of 2020 and DWill of this season. Nobody thought the corner opposite Ramsey would be a problem going into this season because DWill lit it up last year. He made game saving picks, and many timely defenses of passes. In the playoffs at Seattle, he set the tone for the game by jumping a route to get a pick-six, and it seemed as the Rams never lost momentum after that. We saw none of that from DWill this year, but we saw him giving plenty of huge cushions like the other DBs. He wasn't anywhere near the aggressive, playmaking corner he was last year, and the way he was used, he couldn't have been. Morris's scheme did not put him in position to make plays, and both his play and the entire D suffered for it.

I'm also mystified by Terrell Burgess, who looked great in his few appearances last year before his injury. This year he couldn't even get on the field until the injuries mounted. Given the other problems noted above, I don't trust Morris's evaluation of Burgess, nor do I trust his ability to play him to his strengths.

 

[OldSchool]

No no not what I said at all. First everyone is mcvays buddy til they aren't. What I meant is weddle will hopefully help right the ship the disarray we saw on that last drive and throughout the 2nd half was bad. Weddle might change calls he might make suggestions he may have a better feel for what's going on and where to place people. We will see physically how he is but mentally the dude is sharp and this is not to insult Morris but I bet weddle would be a better defensive coordinator. I don't think mcvay would just fire Morris or anyone at this time it's to late and it just wouldn't be kosher however I think he saw especially on that last drive and placing his trust in the def unit that a team with no Trent Williams and a torn thumb jimmy g who is average when healthy went through our defense with ease.

I'm trying to be positive but in the back of my head I'm thinking unless we blow people out what would a Brady or worse a Rodgers do to us especially right now with a decimated secondary. I think that's why the whiners loss was a weird feeling and has been all week. I think it's because it kind of left me thinking we were helpless. Like a loss is a loss but the whiners loss but this one had be dazed a feeling off helplessness.

I must be the only one that puts as much if not more of the blame on McVay and the offense. I see a dozen pages or close to it added here and that doesn't include the vent thread that's all pile on Morris. And yes the defense was very bad in the 2nd half. The offense was just as bad if not worse and it seems like people are giving McVay yet another free pass for the offense failing vs the Niners. It's a total team philosophy that's let us down which is dictated by him.

 

[Merlin]

I don't think anyone is just pissed at the defense. That was a team loss. Full team loss.

 

[OldSchool]

I don't think anyone is just pissed at the defense. That was a team loss. Full team loss.

100%, I just don't see dozens of pages of venting about the offense and McVay's play calling. I saw one thread that lasted about 2 pages on the empty backfields though.

 

[SteezyEndo]

I must be the only one that puts as much if not more of the blame on McVay and the offense. I see a dozen pages or close to it added here and that doesn't include the vent thread that's all pile on Morris. And yes the defense was very bad in the 2nd half. The offense was just as bad if not worse and it seems like people are giving McVay yet another free pass for the offense failing vs the Niners. It's a total team philosophy that's let us down which is dictated by him.

Problem is the inconsistency on both ends. The 1st half of the Niners game is how this team should be playing. They worked in unison, then halftime came along, and something broke.. It was lopsided, it ended up being a mess. Never seen a team implode that fast.

 

[PARAM]

Do people realize there aren't many defenses who give up less points than Morris' guys? Buffalo. New England. Denver. New Orleans. That's it. And two of those aren't in the postseason. Don't pay attention to the sites that include pick 6's, punt returns and kickoff returns against the defense. Just offensive TDs allowed and FGs.

The Rams D gives up 19.7.
Tennessee gives up 21.1 PPG.
Tampa's D gives up 20.0.
Dallas, for all the accolades they get allows 20.3.

Yards don't matter. It's the points that lose games.

 

[So Ram]

Do people realize there aren't many defenses who give up less points than Morris' guys? Buffalo. New England. Denver. New Orleans. That's it. And two of those aren't in the postseason. Don't pay attention to the sites that include pick 6's, punt returns and kickoff returns against the defense. Just offensive TDs allowed and FGs.

The Rams D gives up 19.7.
Tennessee gives up 21.1 PPG.
Tampa's D gives up 20.0.
Dallas, for all the accolades they get allows 20.3.

Yards don't matter. It's the points that lose games.

What was it in 2020 for hindsight.

Morris is such a solid coach for The Rams.I saw it posted about prevent defense. Just wonder why Jalen RAMsey didn’t stay deep,or trust Rapp in coverage? Fuller was out at the time & wondering who was calling the plays on defense(on field) with the green dot?
How good The Rams play in the Playoffs is what counts most.I guess The Rams have to go to Green Bay again ? That is what Lossing cost them.

 

[payote75]

I must be the only one that puts as much if not more of the blame on McVay and the offense. I see a dozen pages or close to it added here and that doesn't include the vent thread that's all pile on Morris. And yes the defense was very bad in the 2nd half. The offense was just as bad if not worse and it seems like people are giving McVay yet another free pass for the offense failing vs the Niners. It's a total team philosophy that's let us down which is dictated by him.

I have said that over and over McVay does leave me scratching my head sometimes. During the game day thread soon as he went empty I litter all you ousted how dumb and he is giving momentum to those teabaggers. That said while he makes some bad or questionable calls its not total meltdowns over and over. While the offense has Kupp stafford and a good obj it doesn't poses so he star so he defense does. Also even with some of the play calls we still scored 24pts and for instance a bad 3rd and 1 call is a bad call but to give up multiple plays on defense to allow that field goal is multiple bad plays.
The offense gave us the lead then Mcvay plays to lose not win however that said the worse part is that you allow a team with an injured average qb and without arguably the best left tackle in football to march down the field in what 90 seconds.

McVay by no means is an innocent eventually the big picture will need to be looked at however I believe we are no where near there yet.

 

[Tano]

As for the secondary, where it really stands out to me is the difference between DWill of 2020 and DWill of this season. Nobody thought the corner opposite Ramsey would be a problem going into this season because DWill lit it up last year. He made game saving picks, and many timely defenses of passes. In the playoffs at Seattle, he set the tone for the game by jumping a route to get a pick-six, and it seemed as the Rams never lost momentum after that. We saw none of that from DWill this year, but we saw him giving plenty of huge cushions like the other DBs. He wasn't anywhere near the aggressive, playmaking corner he was last year, and the way he was used, he couldn't have been. Morris's scheme did not put him in position to make plays, and both his play and the entire D suffered for it.

I blame D Wills and Rapps drop in performance almost entirely on Morris

D Will is a man corner and Rapp is an in the box safety.

Both were played out of position.

 

[blackbart]

McVay is shitty at halftime adjustments. His idea of halftime adjustments is to simply go deeper into his playbook. So he's not going to fire Morris yet. But then it's on him if it costs the Rams a shot at the Super Bowl. Remember they have gone all in. Does that mean only with players? Players are only as good as what the coaches will allow them to be. Ramsey, Beckham, and Miller were all castoffs. Particularly Beckham and Miller. who have shown they are still very productive players if used properly.

My reservations about Fangio is that the Broncos were worse defending the run than the Rams this year. That wouldn't bode well when playing the Niners twice a year. IMO the Niners will be the primary competition in the division for at least the foreseeable future. I think Murray is burning out which is why the Cards tend to fade as the season wears on. Regardless of Wilson, the Seahawks will be in a rebuild for the next two years.

That said Zimmer, or Fangio would be an upgrade over Morris.

The injuries are more a problem than either Morris or McVay. That is what may cost us a trip to the SB, we already have a shot at it.

 

[PARAM]

What was it in 2020 for hindsight.

16.8 PPG or almost a FG better. So does that mean Morris isn't as good as Staley? I don't think so. For those who do believe that, they must believe Staley would have this Rams defense playing better than Morris did ....with Johnson, Hill, Brockers, Joseph-Day, Ebukam and Young missing. Perhaps a look at the Chargers defense under Staley might give some indication of whether that's true or not. 49 TDs allowed and 32 FGs for a PPG average of 25.8. They could say, "well yeah, it's not the Rams defensive roster of 2020 that he's running". True. But neither is it the Rams defensive roster of 2021 that Morris is running.

Like I said, there are 4 teams allowing less points per game than the Rams D. Dropping 3 slots from #1 and slightly less than a FG in PPG allowed is yeoman work considering all the losses on the defensive side of the ball. The problem with Morris is style. Fans don't like the drop back and keep everything in front- make teams go the long way to the end zone-style. And yet when the offense does their job and plays up to their capability it ends up with a "W". Sometimes even when they don't it's a "W" (Baltimore, Minnesota, Seattle2).

What game did we lose when the Rams offense did their job and played up to their capability? Sunday vs San Fran? Sure. We lost Fuller with 12:48 left in the 4th, Rapp went out concussed later in the 4th and DWill played the 4th quarter and OT with a bum shoulder.

 

[“Turbo set!”]

If we don’t win the SB Morris will be the scapegoat.

 

[So Ram]

16.8 PPG or almost a FG better. So does that mean Morris isn't as good as Staley? I don't think so. For those who do believe that, they must believe Staley would have this Rams defense playing better than Morris did ....with Johnson, Hill, Brockers, Joseph-Day, Ebukam and Young missing. Perhaps a look at the Chargers defense under Staley might give some indication of whether that's true or not. 49 TDs allowed and 32 FGs for a PPG average of 25.8. They could say, "well yeah, it's not the Rams defensive roster of 2020 that he's running". True. But neither is it the Rams defensive roster of 2021 that Morris is running.

Like I said, there are 4 teams allowing less points per game than the Rams D. Dropping 3 slots from #1 and slightly less than a FG in PPG allowed is yeoman work considering all the losses on the defensive side of the ball. The problem with Morris is style. Fans don't like the drop back and keep everything in front- make teams go the long way to the end zone-style. And yet when the offense does their job and plays up to their capability it ends up with a "W". Sometimes even when they don't it's a "W" (Baltimore, Minnesota, Seattle2).

What game did we lose when the Rams offense did their job and played up to their capability? Sunday vs San Fran? Sure. We lost Fuller with 12:48 left in the 4th, Rapp went out concussed later in the 4th and DWill played the 4th quarter and OT with a bum shoulder.

Still the offense got the ball back to win the game after the defense stopped them. All they needed to do was make a first down & the clock would have ran to zero with a Rams victory.
Raheem Morris is also about challenging his players & doesn’t mind giving up points for a win & lessons learned.

 

[Kupped]

Before I start this I want to say I do enjoy discussing things with you. You're frustrating as hell, but I enjoy it. You've made a lot of decent points along the way, especially here starting at the "Yep... The offense" part.

That being said, do we know that Morris is actually doing what McVay wants? I think it's entirely possible that McVay asked Morris if he could learn Staley's system and call it like that. In this theory Morris, not being a complete moron, says of course he can. Then we get the first several games if the year. Like you pointed out several times, we were winning so who cares what's happening right? Bad defense? No fucks, we won. Unsustainable performances? No fucks, we won. Then it an fell apart and both sides had to go back to the drawing board to figure out how to play sustainable winning ball. Morris is trying to call more tough defense, but it's not in his nature so sometimes he slips back into what's most comfortable. That's when we get games like SF.

We returned 3 of 5 players in the secondary. The drop off from JJ and the third CB shouldn't be that damn big. It's one safety and the third CB. The third CB. I'll say it again for the people on the back: the third CB isn't quite as good as last year. You said in another post that or third CB options were put in the best places to succeed this season. If they aren't as good as last year, why would we highlight that problem by moving Ramsey to the star and forcing them into being (effectively) the number 2 CB? That's not putting players in their best position to win. Dude can't make it as a 3, so let's force him into being a 2. That's bad decision making on the defensive coaching staff. Burgess played well last year. I think he's played well whenever he gets in the games this year. Why isn't he playing? We don't know, but we'll see this weekend. You said in another post that you think he's put Rapp in the best position to succeed this year. Rapp can't play deep safety. Morris has consistently put him at deep safety. And as we found out during the Ravens game, he plays too deep often enough to cause somebody to slap him for it. That's not playing a guy to his strength and he's either not holding his coaches accountable for his they are training Rapp or they are coach him that way and it's hurting the team. Either way that's a failure of the defensive coaching staff. Which includes, but is not limited to and the buck stops with, Morris. McVay's responsibility is to hold Morris accountable for the defense. If he stops doing that then he's failed as a head coach. Until then, Morris is responsible for the defense and his head is on the chopping block if it comes to that.

McVay isn't going to fire Morris mid season. That's basically giving up. That's for loser teams that don't really have hope. He won't do that. But would he chew the dude's ass behind closed doors and tell him to call more aggressive plays? I fully believe so. I can't believe that McVay is totally hands off and completely satisfied with the defense. I'm not saying nothing will convince me of that, but I've seen nothing to make me think he's that stupid and oblivious (which I realized after typing may seem like a shot at you; it was not, sorry about the confusion). What the defense did in the first half of the season is similar to Stafford's performance in the Ravens game. Bad but with just enough to win it, but still a problem. Unsustainable. We all said, eventually with good offenses if you let them get to the red zone as a part of the scheme they will make it into the end zone. The defense won't always get a pick or a sack and hold them to a field goal or get the ball back. Good offenses will put it in. Then we saw that happen. Now it's happened again. This defensive scheme may work against bad teams and it may sporadically work against good teams, but it's not smart, sustainable football. McVay has to know that and I can't imagine he's going to just sit on everything the way it is when this season is over unless we win the super bowl of the back of a dominant defensive performance. Iterate and improve is what I expect he'll do. Some way, although I won't guess how.

This turned out way longer than I thought it would. Sorry about that as well.

Thanks for the conversation.

On the first point, I'll just say I don't think it's plausible that Morris isn't running the defense McVay wants. McVay brought him in and there's a lot of reporting on what was the intent there.. to keep the core concepts, but to build on it.
I don't think it's plausible because of a couple of main things.. their relationship is too deep and too longterm for Morris to pull something like that. He wasn't going to be out of work this year, he's a respected coach. Also, based on what we know about McVay, he says his best coaching relationships are with guys who honestly challenge him, he talks a lot about really getting into it with LaFluer when he was on staff. I don't believe for one second that McVay wouldn't say, clearly, what he wanted to see on that side of the ball.
So, it's possible that he's not running what McVay wants, but I don't think it's plausible.

I get your point about corners, but, based on snap count, Troy Hill was the #2 Corner on the Rams last year. What's more, he was their most versatile corner outside of Ramsey. He played the star role a bunch, which isn't something that I think Williams can do. Late in the season, if you remember, Hill started a couple of games at outside corner ahead of Williams.
I'm happy to argue that the difference between Hill and Long/DD has been that big in several ways.. including the fact that he played the star very well, which helped keep Jalen outside. The dropoff from JJ to Rapp in coverage is very large.

I understand what you and everyone say about Rapp playing close to the line, and Morris has tried to make that happen more as the season goes on. The problem is you can't *only* have Rapp play close to the line. Neither he nor Scott are really any good deep and they don't have anyone else. The dropoff in that specific aspect from JJ has been massive. My hope and expectation going into this season was that Burgess was going to develop into the guy who would be able to play in coverage or the high shell. Nope. Or, maybe Morris is fucking up and he can play, but they're just not playing him. I doubt that, but, hey.. anything is possible.

There is literally no reason to fire Morris mid-season and even thinking that seems outrageous to me. The Rams are top 5 in defensive points allowed. To think that there is some kind of problem that demands change is wild.

I am going to get back to the end of the 9ers game.

The Rams D had given up a FG drive in a short time at the end of the first half. They'd been gashed pretty good in the second and had just lost one of their two best DBs and the guy who calls the signals for the defense.
McVay decided not to try very hard to get a first down and end the game.

I'm still having a hard time processing that decision.

 

[Kupped]

So McVay is going to fire his best buddy after the season but in the mean time he's going to give the DC job in de facto to somebody who's never coached? If he were to shit on his buddy he'd give somebody on the staff the job but does anybody honestly think Morris is going to get benched this week?

There is some wild stuff out there.

 

[Kupped]

This is the most talented defense in the division IMO. But they are ranked 4th in the division in points allowed. They were also a bottom third defense in getting off the field on third down all season long. Their very nature encourages opponents eating clock and chilling their offense.

There is plenty of blame to go around. But when so many pieces of our secondary struggle this season after playing better in 2020 it stinks of preparation and coaching and gameday usage.

On the other hand being the worst in the division isn't so bad. Rams gave up 21.9 which placed them 15th. But for a team with our level of expectations it is not going to be acceptable.

I've seen a lot of comments about how McVay would never fire his friend. Well, I am not so sure about that. Simply because look at his friends that he has passed over to fill roles on his team. Up until the Morris hire he has seemed to be immune to that friend shit. I think that if he decides Morris is not up to snuff he'll change him out. Might look weird too, like a promotion or whatever, but he'll make the move.

Bottom line is I have felt all along this was a friend hire who is going to need to learn on the job. Well he has learned. We could see the difference in the defense in the first and second halves of the season. So that is encouraging for a year two. Also the playoffs are going to be a big part of that decision process. How will this defense play in the playoffs? We're about to find out. Good chance at some point we're going to find out we've got too many flaws on the back end but we do have the kind of front who can disguise that if the back end at least straightens up their BS and quits blowing assignments.

I guess it depends on how you look at talent on a defense and whether distribution of that talent matters to you.
The Rams have the dead-last worst-no-even-close ILB unit. It's so far behind the other three, it's not really possible to describe the chasm appropriately.
Their #3 & 4 Corners and #3 safety wouldn't even see the field on other teams in the division and I think it's fair to argue that Rapp couldn't start for any other team in the division if everyone is healthy.
The 9ers and Rams Dfronts are very, very close.

So.. I don't know.

Also.. going into the last week, the Rams D was 5th in the NFL in points allowed, that's points scored on defense, taking out ST and return scores. It doesn't factor possessions started by the other team inside the 10 yard line, btw. So, I'd say they are absolutely not the 4th defense in the division.

The secondary struggles sure look like personnel to me. I think I've said that enough. Sure, there may be some scheme things, and maybe losing Pleasant was a bigger deal than we thought. But, bottom line to me.. DD & Long shouldn't see the field and Rapp is an absolute liability in coverage.. basically, he's got he game of an ILB. I just don't think there's much to do there. My expectations were by the end of the season we would see a bunch of Burgess and Rochelle.. but that didn't work out, I guess.

If they don't get major upgrades on the back end, they'll continue to struggle. I think we saw in a small sample.. that Jones showed what an upgrade at ILB can do for the D. Not much Morris can do about key injuries.

 

[Tano]

Sure, there may be some scheme things, and maybe losing Pleasant was a bigger deal than we thought.

This times 1000

Plus I really wanted Pleasant to be promoted to DC

 

[Merlin]

16.8 PPG or almost a FG better. So does that mean Morris isn't as good as Staley? I don't think so. For those who do believe that, they must believe Staley would have this Rams defense playing better than Morris did ....with Johnson, Hill, Brockers, Joseph-Day, Ebukam and Young missing. Perhaps a look at the Chargers defense under Staley might give some indication of whether that's true or not. 49 TDs allowed and 32 FGs for a PPG average of 25.8. They could say, "well yeah, it's not the Rams defensive roster of 2020 that he's running". True. But neither is it the Rams defensive roster of 2021 that Morris is running.

Like I said, there are 4 teams allowing less points per game than the Rams D. Dropping 3 slots from #1 and slightly less than a FG in PPG allowed is yeoman work considering all the losses on the defensive side of the ball. The problem with Morris is style. Fans don't like the drop back and keep everything in front- make teams go the long way to the end zone-style. And yet when the offense does their job and plays up to their capability it ends up with a "W". Sometimes even when they don't it's a "W" (Baltimore, Minnesota, Seattle2).

What game did we lose when the Rams offense did their job and played up to their capability? Sunday vs San Fran? Sure. We lost Fuller with 12:48 left in the 4th, Rapp went out concussed later in the 4th and DWill played the 4th quarter and OT with a bum shoulder.

What we know for sure is that Staley can coordinate a top defense when he's got the right pieces for how he calls it. That is a fact. Now none of us are happy with how the Green Bay playoff game turned out, but bottom line is he got the most from that unit up until their inability to stop the run in GB.

So this little exercise in diminishing what Staley accomplished by drawing parallels with the 2022 Chargers defense is a waste of time. It's a different roster. He's not a DC any more. I realize it's hard to imagine that having the head coach responsibilities can affect your ability to coordinate but it does. Completely different situation and a waste of time to get all crazy with comparisons on.

Re: Morris when you talk about his style it is not just the fans noticing it and overreacting about it. It is a fact that you try to beat a team like ours by eating clock. And it is a fact that our third down conversion percentage sucks ass and has all season long. Not only does a poor third down conversion percentage affect the fans, but it also leads to a defense getting gassed, particularly when you're facing a team that can mash it on the ground. We saw that effect in that SF loss.

Bottom line here is it's the oldest story in the league to beat a team who might outstrip you offensively by using the ground game to eat the clock and sustain long drives and wear out their defense. And it's a fact that Morris "style" as you put it invites that very thing. His defensive style is simply not beneficial to how McVay wants to play the game.