Listen to a Dire Wolf howl for the first time in over 10,000 years

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Memento

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You guys know they aren't going to be in the Everglades right?

An Pleistocene Epoch animal which is used to a lot colder weather than the climate in S. Florida.

I know they aren't going to be in the Everglades - it was hypothetical. Wherever you introduce them, they're going to hunt certain animals in the ecosystem to the point of extinction - a lot of which are already endangered or struggling with their habitat. Do you really want keystone animals being hunted to extinction and screw up the environment they're introduced to beyond saving?

I don't like when amoral scientists play God with the wellbeing of animals; this is exactly what Michael Crichton warned us about. Just because you can bring ancient animals back from extinction doesn't mean that you should.

They're extinct for a reason, and they died out naturally, unlike certain animals who died because of human interference that could legitimately have a reason to be brought back. Let them rest in peace.
 

Corbin

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I know they aren't going to be in the Everglades - it was hypothetical. Wherever you introduce them, they're going to hunt certain animals in the ecosystem to the point of extinction - a lot of which are already endangered or struggling with their habitat. Do you really want keystone animals being hunted to extinction and screw up the environment they're introduced to beyond saving?

I don't like when amoral scientists play God with the wellbeing of animals; this is exactly what Michael Crichton warned us about. Just because you can bring ancient animals back from extinction doesn't mean that you should.

They're extinct for a reason, and they died out naturally, unlike certain animals who died because of human interference that could legitimately have a reason to be brought back. Let them rest in peace.
Most mega fauna as we know that went extinct at the end of the Plasticine Epoch went extinct because of a meteor/comet impact about 12800 years ago that happened very rapidly and brought an end to the last ice age. There is plenty of data to support this now as well.

Humans are part of nature yes? So if we let existing endangered species go the way of a DoDo isn't that natural? Survival of the fittest?

Or are all these nature reserves and areas used for protecting species we cordoned off effective to prevent extinctions and protect species? Who is to say introducing animals won't reinstate a natural equilibrium in the eco system like the California Channel Islands. Channel Island Fox through habitat destruction from domestic animals. They removed all the domestic animals then the Golden Eagles started preying on the Foxes and other natural species there. They removed all the Golden Eagles. Right now there is a very good hemostasis on those islands because a predator was allowed to stay on the island and help cull and maintain the population so it didn't Easter Island itself.

The problem with the current problem with disasters is we let idiots vote on issues and not professionals like biologists and Fish and Game Personal be in charge and maintain these population as animals don't see state boundaries.

The point is, we have a way to unfuck some things we have fucked up and to curiously help maintain low populations of existing animals that are genetically bottled up.
 

Memento

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Most mega fauna as we know that went extinct at the end of the Plasticine Epoch went extinct because of a meteor/comet impact about 12800 years ago that happened very rapidly and brought an end to the last ice age. There is plenty of data to support this now as well.

Humans are part of nature yes? So if we let existing endangered species go the way of a DoDo isn't that natural? Survival of the fittest?

Or are all these nature reserves and areas used for protecting species we cordoned off effective to prevent extinctions and protect species? Who is to say introducing animals won't reinstate a natural equilibrium in the eco system like the California Channel Islands. Channel Island Fox through habitat destruction from domestic animals. They removed all the domestic animals then the Golden Eagles started preying on the Foxes and other natural species there. They removed all the Golden Eagles. Right now there is a very good hemostasis on those islands because a predator was allowed to stay on the island and help cull and maintain the population so it didn't Easter Island itself.

The problem with the current problem with disasters is we let idiots vote on issues and not professionals like biologists and Fish and Game Personal be in charge and maintain these population as animals don't see state boundaries.

The point is, we have a way to unfuck some things we have fucked up and to curiously help maintain low populations of existing animals that are genetically bottled up.

Humanity is the sole reason for a lot of species going extinct. Why? Because we thoughtlessly hunted them to extinction or destroyed their habitats out of greed. We hunted the dodo, the passenger pigeon, the northern white rhinoceros, the Tasmanian tiger, the great auk, and so many other animals to extinction to get trophies, for poaching, out of massive ignorance, and/or because we thought that they were never going to run out until they did. Compare that to the dire wolf, where an end to the ice age brought about its extinction, where humanity and other animals had nothing to do with it - or do you want to start reviving dinosaurs because they died to a cataclysmic event that brought about the end of their era as well?

Humanity hunting animals to extinction because of the reasons I mentioned is not "survival of the fittest". The animals I mentioned are extinct because of human arrogance, plain and simple. Those are the animals these amoral dumbshits should've been focusing on, not the dire wolf or woolly mammoth. That is the pinnacle of human fucking arrogance and playing God with other animals because we can. This and the woolly mammoth project were not done out of altruism, let me be absolutely clear.

As a major animal lover - and wolves are my favorite animals along with otters - it sickens me that they'd do this project just to pat themselves on the back, say that they did a good job, and then fuck up everything when it came to other species. You want to bring back the northern white rhinoceros? That's an admirable goal because it went extinct because of humans being assholes. This project was done out of nothing more than pride, to say they could, and at the same time being completely thoughtless about the future - both with the dire wolves and with other animals.
 

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It seems Dire Wolves have the same DNA of 99.5 of modern Gray Wolves. It seems that .5% difference is what they found in a few teeth and the petrous bone are where they found that .5% difference to actually map the genome 5 different times to effectively create the species again.

Pretty fucking amazing listening to that CEO talk.


It is amazing.

The science has a long way to go though. That 99.5% can be misleading. Just like it is when some say humans share 90 something percent of the same DNA as a chimp or bonobo. Those percentages are based on what we currently understand. We are discovering new things all the time in the Genetics field.

One example is something we currently call junk DNA. We call it that because it currently appears to us that this "junk" DNA has no use and does nothing. Meanwhile, chimps and bonobos don't share the same "junk" DNA with us... they have just a tiny bit of junk DNA in comparison to us. Now... scientists are finding out that this so-called junk does in fact have much to do with who we become... we just don't know or understand what it's true purpose is so we labeled it "junk". So not to bore everyone with genetic jargon, the simple fact is that we have much to still learn concerning DNA and genetics. That also tells me that we are not close to sharing 90+% the same DNA as any primate.

So it truly is amazing that they've come this far. I did read that these white pups presented them with some surprises. One had something to do with their tails and the amount of fur on their tails. There was something else about their bones too or something like that... as well as several other surprises. Well think about that... if they really have a 100% understanding of genetics and DNA... there would be absolutely nothing that surprised them at all.

I'm sure that dire wolves and gray wolves have much more in common than we do with any primate. They really weren't that much bigger. They were built with more muscle and had bigger heads... we have learned that through the bones we've found of dire wolves. But there's a limit to how much of the story the bones can share. What these white pups are is just our current best guess with a limited understanding.
 

Corbin

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@Memento or do you want to start reviving dinosaurs because they died to a cataclysmic event that brought about the end of their era as well?
You can't revive dinosaurs, that is a movie plain and simple. The farthest back we have an DNA genome is 1.2 million years.


Humanity hunting animals to extinction because of the reasons I mentioned is not "survival of the fittest". The animals I mentioned are extinct because of human arrogance, plain and simple. Those are the animals these amoral dumbshits should've been focusing on, not the dire wolf or woolly mammoth. That is the pinnacle of human fucking arrogance and playing God with other animals because we can. This and the woolly mammoth project were not done out of altruism, let me be absolutely clear.
So again you didn't answer my question, aren't human beings part of nature. Didn't we evolve into being the dominate species today that has been directly or indirectly the cause of the extinction of some species?

You stated an animal shouldn't be revised because it went extinct because of 'nature' and if humans are part of nature then those animals died naturally right?

I suspect that's why you didn't answer my previous question because you don't want to contradict your 'view'.



As a major animal lover - and wolves are my favorite animals along with otters - it sickens me that they'd do this project just to pat themselves on the back, say that they did a good job, and then fuck up everything when it came to other species. You want to bring back the northern white rhinoceros? That's an admirable goal because it went extinct because of humans being assholes. This project was done out of nothing more than pride, to say they could, and at the same time being completely thoughtless about the future - both with the dire wolves and with other animals.

That's not the case at all and if you actually did a bit of investigating the researchers and projects ongoing you'd know multiple areas in this last paragraph are absolute falsehoods.
 

IowaRam

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The doctors who created them call them "Modified gray wolves with characteristics of the dire wolves".

Those pups look giant at 3 and 6 months. Wow!.
Imagine having to feed those giants.
Yea , I have a full grown German Shepard , and at 5 months they were already larger then she is

1000000286.jpg
 

IowaRam

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It is amazing.

The science has a long way to go though. That 99.5% can be misleading. Just like it is when some say humans share 90 something percent of the same DNA as a chimp or bonobo. Those percentages are based on what we currently understand. We are discovering new things all the time in the Genetics field.

One example is something we currently call junk DNA. We call it that because it currently appears to us that this "junk" DNA has no use and does nothing. Meanwhile, chimps and bonobos don't share the same "junk" DNA with us... they have just a tiny bit of junk DNA in comparison to us. Now... scientists are finding out that this so-called junk does in fact have much to do with who we become... we just don't know or understand what it's true purpose is so we labeled it "junk". So not to bore everyone with genetic jargon, the simple fact is that we have much to still learn concerning DNA and genetics. That also tells me that we are not close to sharing 90+% the same DNA as any primate.

So it truly is amazing that they've come this far. I did read that these white pups presented them with some surprises. One had something to do with their tails and the amount of fur on their tails. There was something else about their bones too or something like that... as well as several other surprises. Well think about that... if they really have a 100% understanding of genetics and DNA... there would be absolutely nothing that surprised them at all.

I'm sure that dire wolves and gray wolves have much more in common than we do with any primate. They really weren't that much bigger. They were built with more muscle and had bigger heads... we have learned that through the bones we've found of dire wolves. But there's a limit to how much of the story the bones can share. What these white pups are is just our current best guess with a limited understanding.
I think they also said they have a thicker mane , almost like a lion
 

Memento

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You can't revive dinosaurs, that is a movie plain and simple. The farthest back we have an DNA genome is 1.2 million years.

I understand that. It doesn't make it any less sensical to revive something that died to actual survival of the fittest criteria.

So again you didn't answer my question, aren't human beings part of nature. Didn't we evolve into being the dominate species today that has been directly or indirectly the cause of the extinction of some species?

We are not. We are not part of nature and haven't been part of nature for thousands of years; we have merely had an unsteady truce with it while screwing it simultaneously. Nature and civilization don't mix, haven't mixed, and will never mix because we made it so. We evolved into the dominant species because of our intelligence and our ability to build through civilization and scrapping our "hunter/gatherer" background, nothing more or less. It didn't give us the right to hunt hundreds of species of animals into extinction then, and it doesn't give us the right to play God now.

You stated an animal shouldn't be revised because it went extinct because of 'nature' and if humans are part of nature then those animals died naturally right?

I suspect that's why you didn't answer my previous question because you don't want to contradict your 'view'.

I stated that an animal that died thousands of years without our intervention shouldn't be prioritized over animals that went extinct by our hand. Dire wolves will not be able to survive in the environments of today without either dying out or - worse still - dying out after destroying an ecosystem in the process. I also stated that if these scientists truly cared about anything other than their pride, they'd be doing the same for the northern white rhinoceros and other species that have gone extinct solely because of us and nothing more.

If you have a problem with my view, Corbin, say what it is plainly to my face. I have no issues with that.

That's not the case at all and if you actually did a bit of investigating the researchers and projects ongoing you'd know multiple areas in this last paragraph are absolute falsehoods.

I don't give a single shit what their reasons are. What they're doing is not fair to the dire wolf pups, and it's not fair to whatever biome they put them in. It's unethical and immoral to an animal lover like me.
 

Corbin

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It is amazing.

The science has a long way to go though. That 99.5% can be misleading. Just like it is when some say humans share 90 something percent of the same DNA as a chimp or bonobo. Those percentages are based on what we currently understand. We are discovering new things all the time in the Genetics field.

One example is something we currently call junk DNA. We call it that because it currently appears to us that this "junk" DNA has no use and does nothing. Meanwhile, chimps and bonobos don't share the same "junk" DNA with us... they have just a tiny bit of junk DNA in comparison to us. Now... scientists are finding out that this so-called junk does in fact have much to do with who we become... we just don't know or understand what it's true purpose is so we labeled it "junk". So not to bore everyone with genetic jargon, the simple fact is that we have much to still learn concerning DNA and genetics. That also tells me that we are not close to sharing 90+% the same DNA as any primate.

So it truly is amazing that they've come this far. I did read that these white pups presented them with some surprises. One had something to do with their tails and the amount of fur on their tails. There was something else about their bones too or something like that... as well as several other surprises. Well think about that... if they really have a 100% understanding of genetics and DNA... there would be absolutely nothing that surprised them at all.

I'm sure that dire wolves and gray wolves have much more in common than we do with any primate. They really weren't that much bigger. They were built with more muscle and had bigger heads... we have learned that through the bones we've found of dire wolves. But there's a limit to how much of the story the bones can share. What these white pups are is just our current best guess with a limited understanding.
You're 100% right, there are a lot that was fill in the blank back in the day and even the turn of the decade but now with AI ( as I'm a computer geek trying to keep up with the what seems semi yearly breakthroughs) they are actually using AI to make sense of all of the billions of different letters within a subjects DNA now.

This all is literally evolving at a previously unheard of pace because of AI and quantum computing (which I admit physics makes total sense but quantum anything makes zero sense to me) and the recent breakthroughs with those. What is scary is Moore's Law is basically obsolete now the same as Amdahl's Law which were both from the 1960's.

We are in a new age since everyone internalized the focus because of Covid Pandemic and breakthroughs have really taken place since 2020.

Anyways, as I understand it today the Gray Wolf and Dire Wolf both diverged 6 million years ago from each other. It also is suggested that Dire Wolves are closer related to African Jackals than actual Gray Wolves today. The Paper was released in 2021 and was written with DNA help from AI mapping the genome of Dire Wolves, the most that had ever been done at that time.


I follow all this stuff for about a decade of de-extinction and now that fields close to mine are merging with de-extinction it's definitely a hobby of mine. it's exciting asf for multiple reasons.
 

Selassie I

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I freaking love science and genetics. My son has a degree in genetics and I have a friend who is a genetic virologist. They both have taught me things about the science of it all that would bore most people into a deep sleep. I just can't get enough of it though. My friend always tells me that there's more that they don't know than what they do... they are just scratching the surface still to this day.

As for AI...
I stopped worrying about AI taking over or getting hopeful that it could tell us the true meaning of everything when someone sent this to me recently. It's AI's invention of what it considers the greatest country song. I posted it below. It's clear to me now that AI has a long long way to go as well. LOL



View: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DH4l3rAvNmy/?igsh=MTlyaHFubDV1aDAyMw==
 

RamFan503

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As for AI...
I stopped worrying about AI taking over or getting hopeful that it could tell us the true meaning of everything when someone sent this to me recently. It's AI's invention of what it considers the greatest country song. I posted it below. It's clear to me now that AI has a long long way to go as well. LOL



View: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DH4l3rAvNmy/?igsh=MTlyaHFubDV1aDAyMw==

That’s pretty damn funny. Not sure where it got “bump stock ammunition”, but otherwise it seemed to nail modern country music.
 

Corbin

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I understand that. It doesn't make it any less sensical to revive something that died to actual survival of the fittest criteria.
That is "your" criteria.
Here is the definition.
Screenshot (170).png


We are not. We are not part of nature and haven't been part of nature for thousands of years; we have merely had an unsteady truce with it while screwing it simultaneously. Nature and civilization don't mix, haven't mixed, and will never mix because we made it so. We evolved into the dominant species because of our intelligence and our ability to build through civilization and scrapping our "hunter/gatherer" background, nothing more or less. It didn't give us the right to hunt hundreds of species of animals into extinction then, and it doesn't give us the right to play God now.
You are arguing an argument and points that are even being discussed.

Also, humans are apart of nature whether you like it or not and ability to evolve and assist and correct mistakes from the past are present now.
I stated that an animal that died thousands of years without our intervention shouldn't be prioritized over animals that went extinct by our hand. Dire wolves will not be able to survive in the environments of today without either dying out or - worse still - dying out after destroying an ecosystem in the process. I also stated that if these scientists truly cared about anything other than their pride, they'd be doing the same for the northern white rhinoceros and other species that have gone extinct solely because of us and nothing more.

If you have a problem with my view, Corbin, say what it is plainly to my face. I have no issues with that.
I obviously have problems with your point of view which is why we are discussing this now. Plainly to your face? :eyeroll: Those are words that people tell each other in person, not online, not to a disabled confused person. There is no glory or satisfaction of making someone like that realize they made a big mistake realizing in person conversations isn't the internet. However the soy boys and everyone sue crazy has put a stop to much of the respect people once had for another.

On the prioritization of what should be revived first, what projects do you think actually carry the banner for funding? A Carrier Pigeon or a Woolly Mammoth? A DoDo bird or a Dire Wolf? Specially the Woolly Mammoth is literally the banner carrier for every other species, regardless if you like that or not, that is what is going to make all the come back of all these other animals and provide further genetic bio diversity for current endangered species that are alive currently but are experiencing genetic bottlenecking. And that is literally the key to keeping what's currently alive here and healthy.

Shit I want to see a Thylacine, DoDo, Carolina Parrot, you like otters? Japanese Otter, Aurochs, Eastern Elk, Elephant Bird and Rhinoceros's, a couple of Eagles.


I don't give a single shit what their reasons are. What they're doing is not fair to the dire wolf pups, and it's not fair to whatever biome they put them in. It's unethical and immoral to an animal lover like me.
This thought process is exactly why things like the reintroduction of wolves or not being able to hunt bears in certain areas has wrecked the local biom because people are "animal lovers" who vote horrible policies into law and literally know shit about what actually works in reality.
 

Memento

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That is "your" criteria.
Here is the definition.
View attachment 70550


You are arguing an argument and points that are even being discussed.

Also, humans are apart of nature whether you like it or not and ability to evolve and assist and correct mistakes from the past are present now.

You can't seriously say that animals going extinct - animals that would still be fine and dandy, had humans not poached the shit out of them - solely because of human selfishness were "survival of the fittest". I can't agree with that.

I can agree with assisting and correcting mistakes from the past, but right now? Right now, I'd rather save the biomes we can save (and given the state of, just as one example, the Amazon rainforest and the lack of care given to it, I'd rather save the tens-of-thousands of endemic species of animals, plants, and fungi there that will go extinct, should Brazil carry on what it's doing - and that's just one example out of hundreds of ecosystems that we are currently fucking up. Humanity may be nothing more than a higher evolution of animal, but we have not been part of nature for some time; we evolved far past it.), and if you want to reintroduce a previously extinct animal, make it one that would've been just fine had we not hunted it to extinction. There is no need to introduce dire wolves and make a bad problem even worse. They died a long time ago for a reason that wasn't because of us.

As was stated in Pet Semetary: "Dead is dead." As was stated succinctly in The Mortuary Assistant, "Help the living...and let the dead rest."

I obviously have problems with your point of view which is why we are discussing this now. Plainly to your face? :eyeroll: Those are words that people tell each other in person, not online, not to a disabled confused person. There is no glory or satisfaction of making someone like that realize they made a big mistake realizing in person conversations isn't the internet. However the soy boys and everyone sue crazy has put a stop to much of the respect people once had for another.

I said what I said more politely to you than I was going to say it. I asked you to give me the reasons why you had issues. Maybe you have given me those reasons because you've apparently studied this, and if so, I apologize for snapping. But I've done a fair bit of research as well (have been into the study of animals since I was old enough to read and my maternal grandmother once worked at the St. Louis Zoo and taught me a lot of what she knew). I may be disabled, but I'm far from confused when it comes to animal conservation and animals as a whole.

On the prioritization of what should be revived first, what projects do you think actually carry the banner for funding? A Carrier Pigeon or a Woolly Mammoth? A DoDo bird or a Dire Wolf? Specially the Woolly Mammoth is literally the banner carrier for every other species, regardless if you like that or not, that is what is going to make all the come back of all these other animals and provide further genetic bio diversity for current endangered species that are alive currently but are experiencing genetic bottlenecking. And that is literally the key to keeping what's currently alive here and healthy.

Shit I want to see a Thylacine, DoDo, Carolina Parrot, you like otters? Japanese Otter, Aurochs, Eastern Elk, Elephant Bird and Rhinoceros's, a couple of Eagles.

Completely agreed on the bold. Disagree on the latter. If scientists were going to bring any extinct animal back to life and given proof, it would've gotten funding up the ass. You have funding for all types of things nowadays from all sorts of corporations. The thylacine (Tasmanian tiger) would've gotten just as much funding as a woolly mammoth. The northern white rhinoceros would've gotten just as much funding as a dire wolf. I agree with bringing back animals that have been extinct, just not the ones for that long, and not the ones that haven't died out because of humanity. I have not seen any proof where these scientists of this corporation are going to bring back anything other than woolly mammoths and - as of now - dire wolves at the time of the article. Other than those two long extinct animals? Nada.
This thought process is exactly why things like the reintroduction of wolves or not being able to hunt bears in certain areas has wrecked the local biom because people are "animal lovers" who vote horrible policies into law and literally know shit about what actually works in reality.
So, you want the deer to overrun the area (particularly Yellowstone, where the wolves have been reintroduced) and destroy the grazing grounds of other animals, including and especially themselves? The very reason why wolves have been reintroduced to certain areas is to help with an exploding deer population. It has not wrecked the local biomes: only the farmers and ranchers way out in Bumfuck, Nowhere, and if they hadn't prepared for anything to attack their livestock, whether it's a wolf, a bunch of coyotes, a pack of wild dogs, etc., and made plans to prevent it from happening? Then they must be really shitty at their job.

Have they thought of where to put the dire wolf pups, in particular? Which biome do you want them to destroy, hmm? Because all they're going to do is either die or die while wrecking whatever biome they're put in. What happens when those dire wolf pups start to get old enough to breed? Where are you going to put them all? What are you going to do with them?

That's what I am against. It's not fair to the pups, it's not fair to the animals where they're going to put them, and it feels like a colossal waste of time and resources that could've been used to revive animals that would've been fine had we not destroyed them.
 

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whoever named the female Kahlesi should be shot

should have been named Sansa or Arya
 

Selassie I

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That’s pretty damn funny. Not sure where it got “bump stock ammunition”, but otherwise it seemed to nail modern country music.


LOL

It ain't no David Allen Coe !

"Well I was drunk, the day my Momma, got outta prison"
 
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IowaRam

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AI is coming , sooner then you think

heck , it's already here

5EC6.gif
 

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LOL

It ain't no David Allen Coe !

"Well I was drunk, the day my Momma, got outta prison"
haha.. one of my all time favs right there, along with If that ain't country
 

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haha.. one of my all time favs right there, along with If that ain't country

It's of my go to karaoke songs.

Also crowned itself as the world's greatest country and western song... once the last verses were added. LOL
 

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Yeah I haven't read the full thread but these dudes did fuck all with direwolves. The genetically modified the Grey Wolf. Totally different thing.
 

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Yeah I haven't read the full thread but these dudes did fuck all with direwolves. The genetically modified the Grey Wolf. Totally different thing.
Exactly, they modified Grey Wolves to be white and since they share a lot of their genome with Dire Wolves they called them that. It's just recoloring of another wolf.