Goff vs Wentz. Will it be flexed?

[SteveBrown]

a
It will be a major surprise when & IF Goff ever gets better than below average. One caught ball and so many things would be different right now too.:giveup:

A major suprise for him to pass 'below average'....maybe he is below average now, and by next year he becomes average, or in 2019.

 

[shaunpinney]

There's also a couple of years between the boys too, if Goff gets to keep this coaching staff around him, I'd bet that we see him improve beyond expectations. He's improved so much already this season it's scary

 

[SteveBrown]

There is no reason to think this is the best Goff can be. In fact Goff's history from college to now suggests this is only the tip of the ice berg. Also there is nothing to suggest this coaching staff is anything like the Jets back then.

Totally agree. He will get better. I think he 'leveled' off for 2017 the season (I should have stated that explicitly), Yes, I think he will be a pro bowler by 2019....also the Jets staff was awful, and Sanchez was awful considering the awesome O LIne, run game and defense the Jets had. He had it easy, and still did not produce......along that link I think Goff has it very, very easy now, and I am surpised with the the last 2 games (6.0 yards is awful with such great O line play and run game play).

 

[LACHAMP46]

Wentz has all the tools, the size, the arm and and and, but he looks to me like a guy that was always the most athletic dude on the field, and was groomed to be, or 'made' into a QB. He just looks mechanical. I also think he holds the ball to long, (maybe due partly to the fact that in the back of his mind, he's always thinking he can run). At this point though, his long ball is way better than Goff's.

Made into a QB....probably...he's a former free safety....He's probably played a bunch of positions b4 he went over to QB in high school. So, I'd guess he's only played QB for 7 years.

Goff has played QB since 7 years old...no other position.

Yet one guys is being compared to NFL MVP, you say holds the ball too long??? But has thrown 17 TD passes...4 picks. Looks like a guy to me that wants to throw the rock into tight windows...and score TD's.

Another guy completes 59% of his passes with an offensive guru.

You're so hard on for Wentz you can't even imagine that Goff is turning out to be a good QB and the Rams are turning out to be a good team?

He is good. Never said he wasn't looking better.
Wentz is looking great.
See where the discussion is now, coconut?

Name the 2013-15 Cal Bears currently starting in the NFL

Hmmmm, never said "starters"....but I'll try.
Mychal Kendricks, Richard Rodgers, Chad Hansen, Keenan Allen, Brian Schwenke, Stephen Anderson....

Ok, a couple don't "start"...but MADE the NFL....hell, check UCLA or SC...not a bunch that start outta a 3 year period.....
My point was, he played with some talent...not Bama...maybe not Clemson, but talented athletes like any D-1 program.
Oh yeah, here's the list I used Ole School....so I did do an open book exam.
http://www.calbears.com/news/2017/9/7/football-32-former-players-rep-cal-on-opening-day-of-nfl.aspx

Again....you guys think I'm bashing a guy....I see the Wentz wagon has sailed...but I'm not gonna sit here and let some of you try and tear down players that can play...while ignoring real signs on our OWN players....

 

[dieterbrock]

We were 3-1 last year...

Eagles were 3-0 at one point. Then 4-2.
Then they went 1-7 over 8 game stretch. Not sure where Wentz gets labelled a winner and Goff not so much.
I dig your opinions and consistency, I just dont get this line of thinking.
Wentz in year 2 of same system is making huge strides, Goff making huge strides and still hasnt even made 15 starts yet.

 

[Mikey Ram]

A major suprise for him to pass 'below average'....maybe he is below average now, and by next year he becomes average, or in 2019.

If anybody thinks Goff is "below avg", look around the NFL...He's certainly not near elite at this point, but he is certainly not below avg...

 

[Jorgeh0605]

If anybody thinks Goff is "below avg", look around the NFL...He's certainly not near elite at this point, but he is certainly not below avg...

I agree. If you think Goff is "below avg" you need to take a better average.

 

[LACHAMP46]

Then they went 1-7 over 8 game stretch. Not sure where Wentz gets labelled a winner and Goff not so much.
I dig your opinions and consistency, I just dont get this line of thinking.
Wentz in year 2 of same system is making huge strides, Goff making huge strides and still hasnt even made 15 starts yet.

Let's go off history...that's where the winning starts....
Small school college national championship...yeah he didn't start right away...but when he did...they won. Started out winning last year....but hit a rookie wall. And was quite awful. Has rebounded nicely to win 6 of the first 7 games.close games..not blowout wins.....with no running game...some say Alshon & Torrey Smith are good receivers....well, I never been a big fan of Alshon....forty time and all, and came to combine outta shape, looked plump. So average wr talent....I do like Agholor....SC guy...tough....Yet Wentz is continually making plays that decides the game. He scrambles....Some say his running is a detriment...not me. I also like that he's relatively new to the QB position. Seems that he has less baggage or bad habits to clean up...So, in his 2nd year, he's 6-1, leads the league in TD passes. Winner to me.

I've stated several times why I don't think Goff is a winner...main points used: never beat SC, UCLA, Stanford, Oregon...seems to play out in any close game...with INT's....FUMBLES...BATTED PASSES.....I think he's not as accurate as many have claimed...hell, I've said it too...but he consistently has missed deep passes....until he shows the ability to lead a game winning drive, against a quality opponent, I'll continue to have doubts he has what it takes to beat a good/great team.

Being a winner is showing dedication to ones craft....if you're weak in an area, you'll work hard to bring up any weakness. I think guys that are committed to their craft if football, workout like it...I used to watch a bunch of Drew Brees workout clips on youtube...bunch of stuff posted in a site called "Stacks"...Brees is a workout monster...and it shows too....Tom Brady is another guy that's committed to being in the best shape of his life. I think Aaron Rodgers is also like this, and many, many more professional QB's. TO ME, I don't see the commitment to changing his body type into an NFL QB...and I know a bunch are gonna jump on me, but I'm sure the wobbly passes are related to this guys lack of strength...in his arm and HANDS.

He's gotten better...Wasn't hard to not improve from 2016. He seems to be an alright player...Decent.

To win in the playoffs, you need a lil more than decent. To win tough regular season games you need more than decent...

Even a great offensive mind like McVay needs help from his players. Some plays need a player, when all else is failing, when the defense knows the play....they need a QB to just make it work. Not throw it away...not take a sack...but make a PLAY...that wins a game.

 

[PhillyRam]

"I've stated several times why I don't think Goff is a winner...main points used: never beat SC, UCLA, Stanford, Oregon.."

By this logic Peyton Manning was not going to be great because he could not win the big one in college, in fact the year after he left the Great Tee Martin won it all... You know the Tee Martin that is now in the HOF... or is he?

Btw, whatever happened to that Manning guy.

 

[Rmfnlt]

"I've stated several times why I don't think Goff is a winner...main points used: never beat SC, UCLA, Stanford, Oregon.."

By this logic Peyton Manning was not going to be great because he could not win the big one in college, in fact the year after he left the Great Tee Martin won it all... You know the Tee Martin that is now in the HOF... or is he?

Btw, whatever happened to that Manning guy.

I have to say @LACHAMP46 's criteria - to me - is somewhat random and very specific (as to make a case).

 

[PhillyRam]

For the old timers out there.... I see Wentz as your Roger Staubach type. He can run around and make big plays, but is also accurate for the most part.

Then maybe Goff could be more Montana-like. Not saying he is next Joe Montana, but a pure pocket passer, but can move in the pocket buy time, but he actually has a better arm.

Obviously the key is will he be clutch like Montana.

 

[dieterbrock]

Let's go off history...that's where the winning starts....
Small school college national championship

C'mon, that team wins with you or me playing QB. Brock Jensen won more championships and he cant even play in Canada. If winning was a big deal, the NFL would be littered with Alabama QB's....
Elway never won in college, he was the whole team. Like Goff. One year without Goff and the team implodes and fires the HC.
Seems like a double standard man. I get it, you didnt like him as a prospect and I respect your reasons for that. This winning pedigree thing? Nah, cant buy that when Wentz is gonna be the example of a winner. He was a stud last year for 4 games, then fell off a cliff. Rookie wall after 4 games? Nah, he was just being a rookie.
He's got weapons there in Philly, Ertz has always been good
Goff has weapons now and has ground to catch up on.

 

[OldSchool]

Let's go off history...that's where the winning starts....
Small school college national championship...yeah he didn't start right away...but when he did...they won. Started out winning last year....but hit a rookie wall. And was quite awful. Has rebounded nicely to win 6 of the first 7 games.close games..not blowout wins.....with no running game...some say Alshon & Torrey Smith are good receivers....well, I never been a big fan of Alshon....forty time and all, and came to combine outta shape, looked plump. So average wr talent....I do like Agholor....SC guy...tough....Yet Wentz is continually making plays that decides the game. He scrambles....Some say his running is a detriment...not me. I also like that he's relatively new to the QB position. Seems that he has less baggage or bad habits to clean up...So, in his 2nd year, he's 6-1, leads the league in TD passes. Winner to me.

I've stated several times why I don't think Goff is a winner...main points used: never beat SC, UCLA, Stanford, Oregon...seems to play out in any close game...with INT's....FUMBLES...BATTED PASSES.....I think he's not as accurate as many have claimed...hell, I've said it too...but he consistently has missed deep passes....until he shows the ability to lead a game winning drive, against a quality opponent, I'll continue to have doubts he has what it takes to beat a good/great team.

Being a winner is showing dedication to ones craft....if you're weak in an area, you'll work hard to bring up any weakness. I think guys that are committed to their craft if football, workout like it...I used to watch a bunch of Drew Brees workout clips on youtube...bunch of stuff posted in a site called "Stacks"...Brees is a workout monster...and it shows too....Tom Brady is another guy that's committed to being in the best shape of his life. I think Aaron Rodgers is also like this, and many, many more professional QB's. TO ME, I don't see the commitment to changing his body type into an NFL QB...and I know a bunch are gonna jump on me, but I'm sure the wobbly passes are related to this guys lack of strength...in his arm and HANDS.

He's gotten better...Wasn't hard to not improve from 2016. He seems to be an alright player...Decent.

To win in the playoffs, you need a lil more than decent. To win tough regular season games you need more than decent...

Even a great offensive mind like McVay needs help from his players. Some plays need a player, when all else is failing, when the defense knows the play....they need a QB to just make it work. Not throw it away...not take a sack...but make a PLAY...that wins a game.

So Wentz is winning with a running back averaging almost 6 ypc. One of the best TE in the game. A good OLine, some damned good receivers and a very good defense. But it's all him willing them to win.

Goff on the other hand is winning with a RB leading the league in all purpose yards and touchdowns. A good OLine, 2 young and inconsistent TE, a good WR corp with some inconsistent hands and route running. A defense that took 4 games to figure out the scheme and probably the best special teams in the league that tried to fumble away three games. And the Rams players have to carry Goff.

I agree with Dieter I love your player input. But your inconsistencies when it comes to your evaluation of current Rams in comparison to people on other teams makes zero sense. You go out of your way to boost Wentz and then ignore Goff's good play. You ignore the consistent and good coaching that Wentz has had for two years. But you hold it against Goff that he's had 7 games under a good coach. You boost Wentz as a winner for taking over one of the winningest programs in college football and criticize Goff for inheriting a dumpster fire and actually improving that team. I think I'm done with this thread and others like it. Jared Goff is our QB and he's a damned good one. I hope you can enjoy him and this team someday soon because the arrow is pointing way the hell up.

 

[OldSchool]

"I've stated several times why I don't think Goff is a winner...main points used: never beat SC, UCLA, Stanford, Oregon.."

By this logic Peyton Manning was not going to be great because he could not win the big one in college, in fact the year after he left the Great Tee Martin won it all... You know the Tee Martin that is now in the HOF... or is he?

Btw, whatever happened to that Manning guy.

Let's not confuse him with reality.

 

[LACHAMP46]

By this logic Peyton Manning was not going to be great because he could not win the big one in college, in fact the year after he left the Great Tee Martin won it all.

Logic

reasoning conducted or assessed according to strict principles of validity.

Peyton Manning....as a rookie....faced #14 UCLA (lookie here), #23 Georgia, #1 Florida, #27 Washington State, #20 Alabama, and #17 Virgina Tech in the Gator Bowl.....Freshman in college.....guess what?
He lost to UCLA (first game of year 23-25...yeah, we bad!), he beat Georgia, lost to Florida, beat Washington St., lost to Bama, beat Virgina Tech in the Gator Bowl...First year in college. #Winning gene
In case you wanted to see his sophomore year.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/tennessee/1995-schedule.html

nice try....but thanks for helping me make my point....you were saying now???

 

[LACHAMP46]

Let's not confuse him with reality.

I'd like to know, do you enjoy lying to the kids in here? Does it seem cool to spread fake facts?

Attack the message....delusional much? Oh, you didn't remember Peyton as a college stud....Say that....

 

[dieterbrock]

Goff played on a college team that gave up 46 ppg and finished 2nd to last in the NCAA as a true freshman, then they gave up 40 ppg (5th worst in all of D1) in his 2nd season and we are wondering why he wasnt winning?
Is this a serious conversation??

 

[OldSchool]

I'd like to know, do you enjoy lying to the kids in here? Does it seem cool to spread fake facts?

Attack the message....delusional much? Oh, you didn't remember Peyton as a college stud....Say that....

I don't remember Peyton beating Florida, you know their rival the team you have to beat or the rest of the wins are meaningless. In fact he was 0-3 against them. That kind of record against a chief rival gets coaches fired. He was so earl good at beating the Kentucky, Vanderbilt and South Carolina's of the SEC. just couldn't get it done in those high pressure Florida games.

 

[LACHAMP46]

So Wentz is winning with a running back averaging almost 6 ypc. One of the best TE in the game. A good OLine, some damned good receivers and a very good defense. But it's all him willing them to win.

who is this stud running back? who was he before the season? when was he drafted???

Best TE in the game...Who ever called Zach Ertz that before the season? Who made him relevant?

Good O-line...by who's metric? Yours? How many yards rushing a game do they average? How many sacks have they allowed?

Damn fine receivers huh.....all wr's in the league can play...usually when you get one as a FA, they aint all that.

Goff on the other hand is winning with a RB leading the league in all purpose yards and touchdowns. A good OLine, 2 young and inconsistent TE, a good WR corp with some inconsistent hands and route running. A defense that took 4 games to figure out the scheme and probably the best special teams in the league that tried to fumble away three games. And the Rams players have to carry Goff.

Gurley is an ALL PRO talent...thought we agreed to that yesterday...but ok

A good o-line...we'll agree to that as well....

Good wrs too....gotcha

Defense has played well except for 2 games Washington...and Dallas.....great defense IMO...

Goff started the season completing >70% of his passes..during the EASY part of the schedule...remember some know it all expected us to be 7-0.....he's at 59% now...you do the math

You go out of your way to boost Wentz and then ignore Goff's good play. You ignore the consistent and good coaching that Wentz has had for two years. But you hold it against Goff that he's had 7 games under a good coach. You boost Wentz as a winner for taking over one of the winningest programs in college football and criticize Goff for inheriting a dumpster fire and actually improving that team. I think I'm done with this thread and others like it.

Out of my way....nope...spreader of facts and truth...too many liars in this world....some guys lie to kick it..to seem relevant...to ACT like they know something....and, in reality...know nothing....

Hey, we've been out of the playoff race for so long we should be happy with decent....

Sorry, I'm the greedy type....

I want it all

Super Bowl or bust...

I am curious...you should know me...you always get into these....discussions...and always finish with...I'm outta this....

why even get in it??

 

[LACHAMP46]

I don't remember Peyton beating Florida, you know their rival the team you have to beat or the rest of the wins are meaningless. In fact he was 0-3 against them.

Oh, so it's his Florida record that's got your panties in a bunch...
He was 8-4 as a freshman.....11-1 as a sophomore....10-2 as a Junior....11-2 as a senior....

The discussion and particular topic was on winning.....

Do you see a winner now, genius?