Covid 19 thread

[Ramhusker]

View: https://www.facebook.com/Breitbart/videos/1722837017868299/

 

[thirteen28]

Wow, that's a whole lotta dissembling to try to avoid facing what you wrote earlier:

Peer reviewed studied, that’s what’ll get me.

So I go find an article that directly references a peer-reviewed study, and instead of saying "ok, well, there is a peer-reviewed study, maybe there is something to this HCQ thing", you end up more or less running away from your own words and trying to rationalize while my providing information that is explicitly what you asked for doesn't count. All to maintain the "HCQ ... BAD!!!" narrative.

And what does the information in the link you posted say?

Here's one thing, right in the highlights"

" According to a protocol-based treatment algorithm, among hospitalized patients, use of hydroxychloroquine alone and in combination with azithromycin was associated with a significant reduction in-hospital mortality compared to not receiving hydroxychloroquine. " (My emphasis).

That was the second item in the highlights section.

You seize on the line regarding trials, yet the conclusion still states:

"In this multi-hospital assessment, when controlling for COVID-19 risk factors, treatment with hydroxychloroquine alone and in combination with azithromycin was associated with reduction in COVID-19 associated mortality." (Again, my emphasis).

The study also says this:

"Kaplan–Meier survival curves showed significantly improved survival among patients in the hydroxychloroquine alone and hydroxychloroquine + azithromycin group compared with groups not receiving hydroxychloroquine and those receiving azithromycin alone (Figure 1). The survival curves suggest that the enhanced survival in the hydroxychloroquine alone group persists all the way out to 28 days from admission." (emphasis mine, again).

... and this:

"The results of this study demonstrate that in a strictly monitored protocol-driven in-hospital setting, treatment with hydroxychloroquine alone and hydroxychloroquine + azithromycin was associated with a significant reduction in mortality among patients hospitalized with COVID-19."

That's quite a number of strong statements that they were able to reduce the mortality rate using HCQ, based on a statistically significant sample in a controlled study, peer reviewed. Didn't say it was a magic bullet, didn't say it was a cure, didn't say it worked on all people in all conditions. But the study strongly concludes that they had a high success rate under the conditions under which it was conducted (and surprisingly, that included hospitalization, which means the virus had made significant advances ... which means it performed even better than I had believed it would based on other stuff I'd read, which usually meant administering the drug early and prior to hospitalization).

So getting back to what you said:

Peer reviewed studied, that’s what’ll get me.

... are you going to be honest, or are you going to shift the goalposts now? Because I provided exactly what you said would convince you, and the conclusions of the study are strongly in favor that when applied under certain conditions, HCQ can be an effective treatment for Covid.

As for the remark about India and being an HCQ producer, I have to laugh given that it's an old, inexpensive,out-of-patent drug (unlike the Fauci-touted Remisdivir), so it's not like they are making bank. But you know what skin they do have in the game? Their own people:

This Indian slum contained a possible COVID-19 disaster with hydroxychloroquine - LifeSite

On July 9, 2020, Asia's biggest and densest slum shocked the world by announcing just one new positive COVID-19 case despite being a cluster and hotspot.

www.lifesitenews.com

This was pre-hospitalization, in a densely-packed slum that would be an absolute playground for the virus absent some sort of pharmaceutical intervention.

"Indian doctors used hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) for prophylaxis (preventive) treatment — the same drug the American media have politicized.

Dharavi's COVID-19 infection rate dropped drastically from April through June. In July, new infections were very low, almost reaching zero on July 9.

Officials have credited this turnaround to "[a] combination of hydroxychloroquine, vitamin D, and zinc tablets along with homeopathic medicines.""

 

[Raptorman]

A couple of things. All 5 people at the airline my wife works at that tested positive were given HCQ. Every one of them said it made an immediate difference in how they felt. One guy was kept in a hotel in Houston until he had 2 negative tests in a row. 6 weeks before he was allowed to go home.

Now for some numbers. These are from WI, MN, and FL.



Death rates through July 26th. This is total death rates from those that tested positive. Remember, MN is still closed down, WI and FL have been open for some time.

FL 1.4%
WI 1.8%
MN 3.2%

Now, Death rates for people under the age of 65 for FL and 60 for WI and MN. (it's how the states separate the ages)

FL .28%
Wi .28%
MN .29%

Please note, that is POINT 28 percent. Not 28%

Now for kids under the age of 18. (FL 14 and under)

FL .0136%
WI 0%
MN .0162%

On a side note. It's been reported that as of the other day 36 kids under the age of 18 have died in the US of Covid-19. So far in 2020 in FL, 48 kids have died due to drowning. Maybe we should fill in all the pools and keep them off the beaches.

 

[OC--LeftCoast]

I would think after 125 pages the one thing...oh god I shudder when I say this cuz last time ...well it seems that there may be other interests at play than meets the eye.

Lots of selfish or could it be greedy, oh insert... fear mongers out and about, I blame cable news annnnnd social media

Great, GREAT points Vikings man or @Raptorman, gotta be proper, you’ve always be welcome here, as for Myyyy man @thirteen28 ...remind me not to get into a debate with you, like, ever? just say Goff is great or will be, and we’re good, lol

edit

Personally I’ve already shot my wad here, anything else would be rehashed baloney sausage, it’s good some of you guys “keep up the fire“ (a Manchu thing) yeah even on both sides, this has become a very interesting and as far as I’m concerned a must read daily thread

The fact that we’ve basically kept it mutual and non toxic is a credit to all of you guys...lol,even you @12intheBox damn you to this I lift my glass to all of you...to nicely, no VERY nicely done.

Cheers!

 

[XXXIVwin]

I mean Tom Cruise and John Travolta believe that Xenu flew a bunch of people across the universe in a Boeing 707 and dumped them into a volcano on earth. Doesn't mean they are wrong with regard to acting in movies.

This isn’t about actors having weird religious beliefs.

This is about a medical doctor expressing crazy-town medical opinions. (And prominent leaders of our country retweeting her post with the caption “fearless warrior for truth”).

Dr. Immanuel says ovarian cysts are caused by dream sex with demons. (Not to mention her thoughts about reptilian overlords in the government who use magic 8-balls and splice alien DNA into vaccines).

So go ahead and believe her when she says, “Hello, you don’t need to wear a mask. There is a cure.”

Good Lord

Just unbelievable how entrenched some people are in their own opinions, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. If “dream sex with demons” isn’t enough to provoke a little doubt, then nothing can.

 

[Ramhusker]

This isn’t about actors having weird religious beliefs.

This is about a medical doctor expressing crazy-town medical opinions. (And the leader of our country retweeting her post with the caption “fearless warrior for truth”).

Dr. Immanuel says ovarian cysts are caused by dream sex with demons. (Not to mention her thoughts about reptilian overlords in the government who use magic 8-balls and splice alien DNA into vaccines).

So go ahead and believe her when she says, “Hello, you don’t need to wear a mask. There is a cure.”

Good Lord

Just unbelievable how entrenched some people are in their own opinions, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. If “dream sex with demons” isn’t enough to provoke a little doubt, then nothing can.

Yeah, but one kooky doctor doesn't change the fact that Hydroxy is working rather well. There are plenty of other doctors that have come forward and most of them are dismayed about the blow back concerning the use of a drug that they see working.

 

[-X-]

I have no idea why the public would be confused about certain issues.
I mean, it's all settled science. What're you dumbfucks even arguing about?

 

[OldSchool]

I have no idea why the public would be confused about certain issues.
I mean, it's all settled science. What're you dumbfucks even arguing about?
View attachment 37824

Just like some politicians and some doctors on the networks like CNN on a regular basis flip flopping on the issue from day 1.

 

[OldSchool]

Yeah, but one kooky doctor doesn't change the fact that Hydroxy is working rather well. There are plenty of other doctors that have come forward and most of them are dismayed about the blow back concerning the use of a drug that they see working.

Yup hundreds of doctors are saying the same thing but lets try to discredit it because of one person Classic

 

[OC--LeftCoast]

This isn’t about actors having weird religious beliefs.

This is about a medical doctor expressing crazy-town medical opinions. (And prominent leaders of our country retweeting her post with the caption “fearless warrior for truth”).

Dr. Immanuel says ovarian cysts are caused by dream sex with demons. (Not to mention her thoughts about reptilian overlords in the government who use magic 8-balls and splice alien DNA into vaccines).

So go ahead and believe her when she says, “Hello, you don’t need to wear a mask. There is a cure.”

Good Lord

Just unbelievable how entrenched some people are in their own opinions, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. If “dream sex with demons” isn’t enough to provoke a little doubt, then nothing can.

Edit;

”Jane, you ignorant slut”. (I’m betting you know the reference amigo)


Okay, you addressed the baby shit, I sorta read that as tongue in cheek but...how about the meat of the topic?

Please don’t disappoint

How about a reply to Raptorman? ( ooops) Lol, I like guys that bring real numbers

I’ll hold my breath, actually no I won’t

Good Lord?

 

[thirteen28]

Yeah, but one kooky doctor doesn't change the fact that Hydroxy is working rather well. There are plenty of other doctors that have come forward and most of them are dismayed about the blow back concerning the use of a drug that they see working.

Don't even try, Ramhusker - they're just trying to distract you from the main point. The publication of the original article about her kooky beliefs and the pushing of it here is just an attempt to sidetrack things away from the main point about HCQ, and says nothing about the 350 or so patients to whom she had prescribed HCQ and treated. They can't falsify those numbers, so the move to the tactic of distracting away from them, while ignoring that she's not the only doctor at the press conference and that those doctors have made similar observations with regard to HCQ treatment.

As I stated before, it's a red herring.

 

[XXXIVwin]

Okay, you addressed the baby shit, I sorta read that as tongue in cheek but...how about the meat of the topic?

Please don’t disappoint

How about a reply to Raptorman? ( ooops) Lol, I like guys that bring real numbers

I’ll hold my breath, actually no I won’t

Good Lord?

I’m not against the use of HCQ because of one kooky doctor. I’m against the use of HCQ because of recommendations by the FDA. The FDA goes by weighing the preponderance of the evidence from hundreds of studies worldwide.

(But yeah, if ppl want to argue that the FDA is against it because of some grand conspiracy, there’s nothing I can say to refute that. And if there are “armchair quarterbacks” who think their ability to evaluate the science is superior to that of the FDA, I can’t argue with that either. Again, people are gonna persist in believing what they want to believe no matter what.)


Q. Why was the Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) for hydroxychloroquine sulfate (HCQ) and chloroquine phosphate (CQ) revoked?

Specifically, FDA has determined that CQ and HCQ are unlikely to be effective in treating COVID-19 for the authorized uses in the EUA. Additionally, in light of ongoing serious cardiac adverse events and other serious side effects, the known and potential benefits of CQ and HCQ no longer outweigh the known and potential risks for the authorized use.

https://www.fda.gov/media/138946/download

I said from the very beginning of all this— way back in March and April— that I hated that HCQ was politicized. If the FDA supported HCQ, I’d support it too. If the FDA recommended against it, I’d stay away from it.

Follow the science. That is all.

 

[OC--LeftCoast]

I’m not against the use of HCQ because of one kooky doctor. I’m against the use of HCQ because of recommendations by the FDA. And yes, the FDA goes by weighing the preponderance of the evidence from hundreds of studies worldwide.

(But yeah, if ppl want to argue that the FDA is against it because of some grand conspiracy, there’s nothing I can say to refute that. Again, people are gonna persist in believing what they want to believe no matter what.)


Q. Why was the Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) for hydroxychloroquine sulfate (HCQ) and chloroquine phosphate (CQ) revoked?

Specifically, FDA has determined that CQ and HCQ are unlikely to be effective in treating COVID-19 for the authorized uses in the EUA. Additionally, in light of ongoing serious cardiac adverse events and other serious side effects, the known and potential benefits of CQ and HCQ no longer outweigh the known and potential risks for the authorized use.

https://www.fda.gov/media/138946/download

Right but apparently there are two very compelling sides to this coin.

we could debate this till the end of time, one thing I’d hope we could agree on...Ah yes conjecture strikes it’s ugly head yet once again

Hey...Cheers my misguided wayward yet passionate in his beliefs friend

 

[RamBall]

Personally, I don’t agree with the conspiracy theories.

A little more discipline and simply following the science, like most countries around the world have done, and the U.S. would be in much better shape.

I agree if America used a little more common sense and did what the countries that have had the most success did we would be better off. Unfortunately there are many in America that would rather watch people die than use the treatment that has been found successful all around the world, hydroxychloroquine. We cant really discuss the reasoning because it all falls back to politics, and we know how that goes.

I'm ok with a timeout if the mods feel this deserves one.

 

[thirteen28]

I’m not against the use of HCQ because of one kooky doctor. I’m against the use of HCQ because of recommendations by the FDA. The FDA goes by weighing the preponderance of the evidence from hundreds of studies worldwide.

(But yeah, if ppl want to argue that the FDA is against it because of some grand conspiracy, there’s nothing I can say to refute that. Again, people are gonna persist in believing what they want to believe no matter what.)


Q. Why was the Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) for hydroxychloroquine sulfate (HCQ) and chloroquine phosphate (CQ) revoked?

Specifically, FDA has determined that CQ and HCQ are unlikely to be effective in treating COVID-19 for the authorized uses in the EUA. Additionally, in light of ongoing serious cardiac adverse events and other serious side effects, the known and potential benefits of CQ and HCQ no longer outweigh the known and potential risks for the authorized use.

https://www.fda.gov/media/138946/download

I said from the very beginning of all this— way back in March and April— that I hated that HCQ was politicized. If the FDA supported HCQ, I’d support it too. If the FDA recommended against it, I’d stay away from it.

Follow the science. That is all.

And yet there is a study I cited above, at the request of mr. coconuts to produce something peer-reviewed, that showed very good results ("significant" was the word used multiple times to describe the reduction in mortality). I posted another article where HCQ was used as a propholactic in a densely packed slum in India (more than 6 times denser than NYC), and there they smashed the infection rate to almost zero. You have all these different doctors speaking up about the success stories they have had prescribing and treating Covid using HCQ. And in this thread you have a first hand account of someone who knows people that were treated with HCQ and felt better almost immediately.

Did you ever stop to think that maybe the word of the FDA shouldn't be treated as absolute gospel? Does the fact that more and more evidence is coming out that contradicts their position give you pause in taking their word for it?

It wouldn't be the first time a government agency has been wrong ... nor the first time that agency specifically has been wrong.

 

[OC--LeftCoast]

I agree if America used a little more common sense and did what the countries that have had the most success did we would be better off. Unfortunately there are many in America that would rather watch people die than use the treatment that has been found successful all around the world, hydroxychloroquine. We cant really discuss the reasoning because it all falls back to politics, and we know how that goes.

I'm ok with a timeout if the mods feel this deserves one.

It’ll be a sad day when “telling it like it is” get you banned from thee greatest of Rams forums, we’ve pretty much been quite open here with minimal toxic b/s

 

[RamBall]

So there’s a few issues, which is likely what led to the removal. First, those doctors don’t represent thousands of others, and there are not thousands and thousands of doctors using it to treat Covid. It’s not approved by the FDA, those numbers just don’t add up. Second, this was a clear political move, not scientific. It was organized by political groups, and had politicians standing by them, and it was broadcast all over political pages and retweeted by politicians to drive a narrative.

And finally, one of the doctors is claiming it’s a cure. That should be the big ol red flag and bullshit alarm going ding ding ding in people’s head moment. The studies that they are trying to cite don’t even say that, it was only found to reduce the death rate by about half in patients that met a very limited set of conditions while being constantly monitored in a hospital. And there just isn’t a cure for a coronavirus, that’s not how it works. We can eventually figure out enough to develop antiviral medicine for it, but you can’t cure it anymore than you can cure the common cold. It mutates and adapts too quickly. Once you get the baseline down you can develop antibodies and such that will aid the body in their fight, but you can’t cure it.

And that’s likely why it got pulled. It was a political stunt with misleading information.

But regardless, the science says HCQ is an effective treatment. It is cheap, safe and effective, what do we have to lose? People are dying without it and living with it, it is also showing to be effective at preventing covid when used as a prophylaxis. I had a conversation with a woman today that takes HCQ for lupus, her husband caught covid and their son ended up catching it. She didnt catch it and when she spoke with her Dr about it, he told her that because she was taking HCQ chances of her getting it were slim to none. Although the HCQ wasnt necessarily the only reason she didnt get it, it isnt spread that easily either. My wife was quarantined in the same house as me neither of us wore a mask and she didnt catch it.

 

[RamBall]

It’ll be a sad day when “telling it like it is” get you banned from thee greatest of Rams forums, we’ve pretty much been quite open here with minimal toxic b/s

It was kind of tongue in cheek. I know politics is a bad place to go, but yet it seems to be the only explanation for why people have been allowed to die.

 

[XXXIVwin]

And yet there is a study I cited above, at the request of mr. coconuts to produce something peer-reviewed, that showed very good results ("significant" was the word used multiple times to describe the reduction in mortality). I posted another article where HCQ was used as a propholactic in a densely packed slum in India (more than 6 times denser than NYC), and there they smashed the infection rate to almost zero. You have all these different doctors speaking up about the success stories they have had prescribing and treating Covid using HCQ. And in this thread you have a first hand account of someone who knows people that were treated with HCQ and felt better almost immediately.

Did you ever stop to think that maybe the word of the FDA shouldn't be treated as absolute gospel? Does the fact that more and more evidence is coming out that contradicts their position give you pause in taking their word for it?

It wouldn't be the first time a government agency has been wrong ... nor the first time that agency specifically has been wrong.

Correlation does not mean causation.

Suppose there were a test of 50 people and tell ‘em all to let out a big fart at 2pm every afternoon. After one month, all 50 are Covid free.

So does this mean that regular 2pm farting has special prophylactic powers? Of course not. Regular farting was correlated with being Covid free, but it’s a heck of a stretch to say it caused ppl to be Covid free.

I don’t trust random stories of people “taking HCQ and saying it works.” That could just as easily mean they were never exposed in the first place.

The power of placebo is extraordinary. The primary studies we should trust are the ones that are strictly controlled and double-blind.

And I’m not dismissing out of hand the studies you cited. But there are TONS more studies on the other side. When there are mixed results, I’ll go with experts at the FDA who are trained to weigh the preponderance of the evidence.

The vast majority of studies out there that show HCQ is unlikely to be effective (in either treatment or prevention) of Covid. Not to mention, there are a LOT of studies out there that show HCQ is very risky re. dangerous heart rhythm complications. I don’t have the time or patience to prove there are overwhelmingly more studies “against” HCQ than there are “for” HCQ.

Remdesevir passed the test. Dexamethasone passed the test. Hydroxychloroquine failed the test.

Follow the science, that is all

 

[thirteen28]

Correlation does not mean causation.

Suppose there were a test of 50 people and tell ‘em all to let out a big fart at 2pm every afternoon. After one month, all 50 are Covid free.

So does this mean that regular 2pm farting has special protective powers?
Of course not.

I don’t trust stories of people “taking HCQ and saying it works.” That could just as easily mean they were never exposed in the first place. Or if people have mild symptoms and take HCQ, and get over it quickly, that could mean the same thing— maybe they would have recovered quickly without having taken HCQ in the first place.

The power of placebo is extraordinary. The best studies are the ones that are strictly controlled and double-blind.

Remdesevir has passed the test. Dexamethasone has passed the test. Hydroxychloroquine has failed the test.

Follow the science, that is all

Flatly untrue.

As linked upthread, there was a scientific study of over 2500 patients. It used all the scientific protocols for such a study and got the stamp of approval from peer review. It was conducted on Covid-positive patients who for whom the illness had progressed enough to require hospitalization. And the results of that study showed (their words) "significant" reduction in mortality relative to groups that were not administered the drug. You can't simply ignore that and then admonish others to "follow the science". When you do that, you are ignoring evidence that contradicts your belief, which is about as unscientific as it gets.