Brian Flores suing NFL

[dieterbrock]

This is the NFL, highest level in the land. Teams hire guys who they think gives them the best chance to win. This sham interview stuff is just nonsense. If Daboll was the Giants guy then every other candidate who interviewed had little chance of getting the job, regardless of their race, color or creed. The Giants are morons because they hired the wrong guy IMO, but they did do their due diligence. And frankly if Flores thought he should be the HC, he should have went in there and told them that and why. Show them your winning plan, and win the job. Its the highest competition in the land and if the guy isnt up for competition for the job, then how can you expect him to lead a team?
If this is going to lead to a bigger investigation in to league wide practice, then newly hired GM's who hired coaches will also be considered complicit yet I dont see Ryan Poles nor Adofo-Mensah being attached to it. I wonder why?

 

[dieterbrock]

Timeline of Giants process, link after I left out the writer's commentary
an. 11 (Tue) – Giants fire Joe Judge as head coach
Jan. 21 (Fri) – Bills assistant GM Joe Schoen hired as GM
Jan. 21 (Fri) – Bills OC Brian Daboll interviews with Schoen and Giants’ co-owners via teleconference
Jan. 22 (Sat) – Bills DC Leslie Frazier interviews via teleconference
Jan. 23 (Sun) – Bengals DC Lou Anarumo interviews via teleconference
Jan. 23 (Sun) – Daboll and Frazier’s Buffalo Bills eliminated from playoffs
Jan. 24 (Mon) – Cowboys DC Dan Quinn interviews in-person. Giants’ first in-person interview for the job.
Jan. 25 (Tue) – Brian Daboll receives second interview. Interview occurs in-person

Not determined when Belichick text sent other than it was prior to his Thursday interview

Jan. 26 (Wed) – Giants DC Patrick Graham interviews. Does not satisfy Rooney Rule since in-house candidate
Jan. 26 (Wed) – Ex-Dolphins HC Brian Flores has dinner with Schoen
Jan. 27 (Thu) – Brian Flores interviews (satisfies Rooney Rule because it is in-person with someone outside organization)
Jan. 27 (Thu) – Dan Quinn announces he is remaining as Cowboys DC
Jan. 28 (Fri) – Leslie Frazier gets second interview, this time in-person, also satisfying Rooney Rule
Jan. 28 (Fri) – Daboll hired as head coach
Feb. 1 - Suit filed

Timeline of New York Giants head coach interviews and Rooney Rule requirement

The New York Giants are being accused by Brian Flores of committing racial discrimination regarding their head coach hire. The Giants hired Brian Daboll

larrybrownsports.com

 

[12intheBox]

I suspect part of the problem is the idea that teams have their guy before the interview process really gets going. And it turns out - their guy is very very commonly a white guy. The good ol boy network, thus becomes really really hard to break into.

I don’t think that NFL owners and GMs are consciously trying to avoid hiring black coaches - I think that when they make a hire, they really believe that they are hiring the best guy. The whole thing is pretty murky in my mind, really.

But the discovery process - if this case gets there - is going to be brutal - and the optics of the entire situation is another concern for the league.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

There is no question in my mind that there is merit to what Flores is contending. Racism is an insidious thing and is very hard to prove though without a doubt it exists. I like Flores who is a straight up guy. In fact, I'd rather have Flores as DC here than Morris.

Do I think he will win? No, but that doesn't mean his contentions are false. I've had that problem my entire life so I know all too well what it is. I was an analyst at Standard and Poors but kept getting passed over despite constantly being handed the top projects.

If his suit ruins his career then it simply would prove he's right in much the same way as Kap's career was ruined. People who are brutally honest always get tagged with the label of being hard to work with. It's why I left my career as an analyst and in reality, I was much happier running my own businesses for 35 years.

Kaepernick was a back up QB at that point and his flaws were well known.

I've concluded that Flores is risking too much for me to simply dismiss this lawsuit as a guy who is merely disgruntled. That conclusion doesn't make sense. Nor does any claim about his shortcomings. If anything, the dude should have been in far greater demand than he was this off-season, which indicates to me that Ross spoke to other owners after he fired Flores.

You've been dismissive from the start. I don't know where you're getting the certainty. Hell, it's not like the NFL didn't just have a very public collusion case go poorly in the past few years (Kaepernick). I'm going to wait and see what comes of this.

No, you shouldn't interview people out of "courtesy." That's a waste of people's time. I'd be beyond pissed if a company interview me out of "courtesy." If I'm interviewing, I'm taking time away from something else I could be doing.

But here's the kicker, how does Bill Belichick find out? He's not a Giants employee.

OK, you be pissed, and turn it down because of the wasted time, I will do the interview and be happy for the experience. That experience is GOLD. Are you really saying you wouldn't take an interview in that scenario? Man, I don't understand that mentality at all. Do you think head coaching interviews are available whenever you need one? They are rare. You make the time, even if you don't want or can't get the job. I am amazed that people look at interviews that way. You might not understand how big of a gift an interview for a job you don't want is, until you blow an interview for a job you do want.

I see what you are saying - but if it’s not a real interview, is it actually worthwhile experience? Are you gaining real skills with a pro forma - running thru the motions - setting? Might it even lead you astray? You could crush the interview, do everything right - not get the job and then feel like you should do it differently next time.

I think it depends on your individual situation - but where I am - no I don’t feel like the opportunity to sit for a bullshit interview is much of a gift.

To all of these: Interviewing can be a source of networking. Even if Flores wasn’t the Giants choice, and it was already decided that Daboll was the guy, the interview was a chance to impress. Impress an owner, President or GM and then they talk to others in the field and tell them Flores was very impressive and made our decision tougher, you should check him out. That’s a positive outlook on opportunity. Brian seems to have a negative outlook on it.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

The idea that an NFL owner wanted to pay a head coach to throw games is beyond disturbing for this sport. I’ve brought this up before, it’s sports entertainment and they can do what they want. The owners rule this sport. If they want to gamble on their team what’s stopping them? NFL head coaching jobs are precious. How many coaches will start complying to keep their job? The relationship that the NFL has with gambling is the beginning of the end for this league.

 

[I like Rams]

Racism is going to be hard to prove in this case, bc racism is a motive not to hire someone. Unless you can prove that they didn't want to hire him SPECIFICALLY bc he was black, you don't have a case. But in today's world everything everything is racist, so this blowing up doesn't surprise me.

 

[Selassie I]

I just heard that Hue Jackson came out this morning and stated that he was paid extra money by the Browns' owner to lose games.

 

[dieterbrock]

I just heard that Hue Jackson came out this morning and stated that he was paid extra money by the Browns' owner to lose games.

View: https://twitter.com/ericj_d/status/1488676832648040453?s=20&t=-JbtmF3C7Fcvlli1cNmxCA


View: https://twitter.com/huejack10/status/1488671614581592065?s=20&t=-JbtmF3C7Fcvlli1cNmxCA


View: https://twitter.com/huejack10/status/1488678199265480705?s=20&t=-JbtmF3C7Fcvlli1cNmxCA


View: https://twitter.com/huejack10/status/1488690460977684488?s=20&t=-JbtmF3C7Fcvlli1cNmxCA

 

[dieterbrock]

I always supported Hue Jackson as an OC, but his coaching record is impossible to defend. If he's admitting he tanked games for money he should be fired from his current job and be banned from any coaching opportunity

 

[Faceplant]

Just watched Flores live on Get UP.....this is going to be interesting,

 

[Faceplant]

So much for the Rams and Bengals getting any well deserved press for the next 2 weeks......shame.

 

[OldSchool]

So I asked earlier can this force an ownership change in Miami? The NFL has a new betting partner and they're dropping a lot of money on the NFL. And now we have an owner who's accused of asking his employees to throw games thereby potentially causing the NFL's business partner to lose a lot of money while giving the league a lot of money. I can see how this doesn't end well for Ross.

 

[12intheBox]

I wonder what kind of power the league has to force the sale of a team? I have to assume that’s laid out in their contract. This is what happened in the NBA, right?

 

[Jacobarch]

It's pretty simple, someone told Bill that the Giant's had their guy THREE days before Flores was supposed to be interviewing for the position. NFL teams are supposed to interview at least one minority before they hire a new head coach. Giants call Flores and tell him they're interested, bring him in solely to satisfy the Rooney Rule and waste his time when they've already made their choice. I don't know if it's illegal but it clearly violates the entire intended purpose of the Rule and it's a pretty crappy thing to do.

I think the far more interesting allegations involve paying for losses and numerous attempts to get Flores to violate NFL tampering rules by trying to recruit Tom Brady, but I think the reason this gets traction is because of the racism accusations. It also doesn't help that every coaching vacancy so far has gone to a white dude. 5 for 5.

It's also pretty crappy that a team or org has to interview someone based upon race. I'm pretty sure the rule in itself is infact racist.

I also agree the interesting parts of the story are getting completely overlooked. Typical

 

[dieterbrock]

So I asked earlier can this force an ownership change in Miami? The NFL has a new betting partner and they're dropping a lot of money on the NFL. And now we have an owner who's accused of asking his employees to throw games thereby potentially causing the NFL's business partner to lose a lot of money while giving the league a lot of money. I can see how this doesn't end well for Ross.

I guess this is what bothers me most. I totally understand why Flores has an axe to grind with the Dolphins and Ross in particular. Why not just go after him? If he has any proof of this I cant see the other owners supporting Ross, and if he had league support, this thing moves awful fast. However, trying to work the race angle in? I find that very frustrating, as the more the race card gets played, the less value it holds. Trying to make the league complicit in the act as well? Thats just a money grab IMO and sets him back. And the timing is for sure very awkward, why would he make the complaint now while he's still a candidate for open jobs?

 

[Jacobarch]

So I asked earlier can this force an ownership change in Miami? The NFL has a new betting partner and they're dropping a lot of money on the NFL. And now we have an owner who's accused of asking his employees to throw games thereby potentially causing the NFL's business partner to lose a lot of money while giving the league a lot of money. I can see how this doesn't end well for Ross.

definitely an interesting point

 

[OldSchool]

I guess this is what bothers me most. I totally understand why Flores has an axe to grind with the Dolphins and Ross in particular. Why not just go after him? If he has any proof of this I cant see the other owners supporting Ross, and if he had league support, this thing moves awful fast. However, trying to work the race angle in? I find that very frustrating, as the more the race card gets played, the less value it holds. Trying to make the league complicit in the act as well? Thats just a money grab IMO and sets him back. And the timing is for sure very awkward, why would he make the complaint now while he's still a candidate for open jobs?

I think you have a couple things with the league being brought into it. One is it's multiple teams not just the Dolphins so that will bring all of them in eventually. But mostly I think it's about the rule and it's enforcement or implementation. It's good to want more minority coaches/gms/owners but a lot of people don't like how they're going about it.

I don't have a valid solution really. But lets say last year Snead retired. We obviously had Brad Holmes ready for the job as he got the job with Detroit but lets say Snead retired. We couldn't just give the job to Brad that wouldn't comply with the rule to promote minorities because we didn't give two guys outside the organization meetings and one of them in person. So the leagues rule mandates we give sham interviews which is part of Flores suit. Now I've said before locking in to one candidate as your guy and not really giving others a chance is bad business already but the rules actually call for interviews to be done no matter what.

 

[dieterbrock]

I think you have a couple things with the league being brought into it. One is it's multiple teams not just the Dolphins so that will bring all of them in eventually. But mostly I think it's about the rule and it's enforcement or implementation. It's good to want more minority coaches/gms/owners but a lot of people don't like how they're going about it.

That's the part we disagree on I guess. There is no issue with the Giants, the complied with the hiring rules. And I think if its determined they didnt, then the whole thing is just effed. Other than hiring a minority, they did everything they were bound to do. To me the Giants is a reach, and the implication that Belichick's text is somewhat of a smoking gun is silly.
I dont know enough about the Broncos sitch but to me it just sounds like they needed 3 examples to make it class action, so they pulled that one out of a hat.

 

[OldSchool]

That's the part we disagree on I guess. There is no issue with the Giants, the complied with the hiring rules. And I think if its determined they didnt, then the whole thing is just effed. Other than hiring a minority, they did everything they were bound to do. To me the Giants is a reach, and the implication that Belichick's text is somewhat of a smoking gun is silly.
I dont know enough about the Broncos sitch but to me it just sounds like they needed 3 examples to make it class action, so they pulled that one out of a hat.

I'm not trying to validate any of his claims that's for others to do. Simply said with three teams in the complaint it's natural the league as a whole will be involved especially since they're league policies.

 

[Curiousenigma]

Kaepernick was a back up QB at that point and his flaws were well known.







To all of these: Interviewing can be a source of networking. Even if Flores wasn’t the Giants choice, and it was already decided that Daboll was the guy, the interview was a chance to impress. Impress an owner, President or GM and then they talk to others in the field and tell them Flores was very impressive and made our decision tougher, you should check him out. That’s a positive outlook on opportunity. Brian seems to have a negative outlook on it.

This is describing exactly what the Rooney Rule was supposed to do. It was not to guarantee jobs to Black coaches but to give them a chance in the interview process that would help put them on the horizon for any future openings. I simply do not understand why people keep bringing up Kaepernick being black listed. He opted out of his contract after being a backup. Nobody was overly interested in giving him a starting job, which was all he wanted. He refused offers to prove himself as a backup. You have seen the circus around Kap as he messed up the Raven's deal with him. He got some money because they wanted him to go away...not because he was actually correct about the black list. Flores is going to end up the same unfortunately. It's too bad because he made that Dolphins team competitive and is a good coach.