Where Austin Davis, Shaun Hill fit for Rams/Wagoner

[Boffo97]

Since you don't KNOW Davis fell apart big time not rookie time once teams adjusted to him.

I don't buy that "teams adjusted to him" stuff. For whatever reason, he got the yips. If he can be coached out of it, he showed a TON of potential, and it would be awesome to see how he would do with better support around him.

But, with Bradford's injury possibility, we don't have room to develop a guy who MIGHT be good again unless we keep 3, which I don't think we'll do.

 

[WestCoastRam]

I appreciate CoachO has seen Davis in camp. I went back and looked at the coach's tape on game rewind for the season and Davis had all the mistakes CoachO has talked about... I agree with him, if this was only year one then that would be one thing. My hope was that this was a guy who had done good things in camp/preseason year one, regressed in year two and stepped it up in year three. But it sounds like CoachO just saw consistent badness. Shame. I was kinda hoping the light was turning on for him this season and he had been learning how to be more of a professional. Wishful thinking (which is the name of QB1 for the Rams this season). Maybe a QB in this draft outside of the top two can offer us more... I was and am doubtful of that.

 

[jrry32]

Where do they fit? Hill possibly as the #3 QB and Austin Davis on the practice squad or not on the team.

 

[blue4]

Davis got no support from the oline or defense. Around 26yrs? Had a few good drives, couple great drives, made crushing mistakes.
Hill got worse support from the OL, but got in my opinion got the best defensive support in the league for most of his games. Old as dirt, still made crushing mistakes. So...

Bradford, someone else hopefully named Glennon, Davis. Hill I really don't want to see again. Resigning him is a waste to me.

 

[LesBaker]

I don't buy that "teams adjusted to him" stuff. For whatever reason, he got the yips. If he can be coached out of it, he showed a TON of potential, and it would be awesome to see how he would do with better support around him.

But, with Bradford's injury possibility, we don't have room to develop a guy who MIGHT be good again unless we keep 3, which I don't think we'll do.

If Bradford is on the roster they have to have 3 just in case. Either that or they will be scrambling to find a backup ti Hill (or whatever 2nd stringer they have) if Bradford gets hurt again. With his history you have to go in with three this year.

@WestCoastRam Davis was playing in games his first time. He's been playing with scrubs and camp bodies for the most part. And 7 on 7 drills versus real live NFL games????? Which is a better indicator of potential? Anyway I hope they give him a shot.

 

[blue4]

If Bradford is on the roster they have to have 3 just in case. Either that or they will be scrambling to find a backup ti Hill (or whatever 2nd stringer they have) if Bradford gets hurt again. With his history you have to go in with three this year.

@WestCoastRam Davis was playing in games his first time. He's been playing with scrubs and camp bodies for the most part. And 7 on 7 drills versus real live NFL games????? Which is a better indicator of potential? Anyway I hope they give him a shot.

I get what you are saying about Bradford's injury history, but I would go further to say that until we know for sure that for the first time in a decade the OL is fixed, we need 3 QBs.

 

[DaveFan'51]

I get what you are saying about Bradford's injury history, but I would go further to say that until we know for sure that for the first time in a decade the OL is fixed, we need 3 QBs.

I'd say two QB's, with a good PS QB will do fine!

 

[blue4]

I'd say two QB's, with a good PS QB will do fine!

You sir are ever the optimist. I salute you.

 

[CoachO]

If Bradford is on the roster they have to have 3 just in case. Either that or they will be scrambling to find a backup ti Hill (or whatever 2nd stringer they have) if Bradford gets hurt again. With his history you have to go in with three this year.

@WestCoastRam Davis was playing in games his first time. He's been playing with scrubs and camp bodies for the most part. And 7 on 7 drills versus real live NFL games????? Which is a better indicator of potential? Anyway I hope they give him a shot.

you seem to be hung up of the 7 on 7 stuff thinking that is my ONLY gauge for evaluating Davis.

What I said,, was the same sort of things I have seen from him in training camp, INCLUDING his struggles in that particular drill, as well as the 11 on 11 stuff, the 1 on 1 stuff, and just his overall lack of accuracy, and indecisive tendencies. You want to use what you see in actual games. Great. All the games did for me, was confirm the things I have seen from him for THREE YEARS....

You seem to dismiss the turnovers, especially the critical "pick 6's", because he showed flashes of making a play every now and then. You seem to dismiss his tendency to bail out of the pocket PREMATURELY because he panics. And even worse, once he does take off, the play is virtually over, because he SELDOM makes a play once he scrambles. In fact, that's when most of his poor decisions occur.

I get that he is still "young" (inexperienced), and sure there may be a chance he matures. But the accuracy issues, and lack of arm strength will always be a part of who he is as a QB, IMO.

As far as Bradford is concerned. The ONLY thing holding him back, IMO, (and apparently Fisher's as well) is the injury factor. To even try to compare a 25 year old (not all that young) Austin Davis to and healthy Sam Bradford is just a waste of time.

 

[Dodgersrf]

Where do they fit? Hill possibly as the #3 QB and Austin Davis on the practice squad or not on the team.

I would like to see 3 Qbs on the roster this year. At least for the first 8-10 weeks.
Another season combing practice squads for a qb doesn't sound appealing to me.

 

[Thordaddy]

How can you possibly know what kind of shape Hill was in? Sorry, not buying into that theory.

The same way you "know" what you do, a well trained eye,hell the coaches joked about his gut and FWIW if you can't ,and I haven't heard anyone who can identify when and how he hurt his quad AS I SAID it's JUST as reasonable to come to that conclusion .really more reasonable than this: If Hill had not had the quad injury, there is ZERO chance that anyone here would even remember the guys name at this point
A guy gets hurt in the first regular season game in the first half and you basically conclude that was the ONLY reason we ever see Davis,WHEN he was the second QB we had hurt already.
You've made some outlandish assertions in this thread O , the more strident you become about them the less I for one put in even the reasonable ones.
I never said I agree with Les THAT Davis was the "best" QB on the roster, but to be so adamant that he's terrible puts you in Jerry Glanville territory who decided a QB was terrible and traded him because he couldn't allow for his own fallibility, do I need to tell you who that QB was?
Give yourself some wiggle room dude, we all need to

 

[LesBaker]

you seem to be hung up of the 7 on 7 stuff thinking that is my ONLY gauge for evaluating Davis.

What I said,, was the same sort of things I have seen from him in training camp, INCLUDING his struggles in that particular drill, as well as the 11 on 11 stuff, the 1 on 1 stuff, and just his overall lack of accuracy, and indecisive tendencies. You want to use what you see in actual games. Great. All the games did for me, was confirm the things I have seen from him for THREE YEARS....

You seem to dismiss the turnovers, especially the critical "pick 6's", because he showed flashes of making a play every now and then. You seem to dismiss his tendency to bail out of the pocket PREMATURELY because he panics. And even worse, once he does take off, the play is virtually over, because he SELDOM makes a play once he scrambles. In fact, that's when most of his poor decisions occur.

I get that he is still "young" (inexperienced), and sure there may be a chance he matures. But the accuracy issues, and lack of arm strength will always be a part of who he is as a QB, IMO.

As far as Bradford is concerned. The ONLY thing holding him back, IMO, (and apparently Fisher's as well) is the injury factor. To even try to compare a 25 year old (not all that young) Austin Davis to and healthy Sam Bradford is just a waste of time.

You're way to emotionally invested in this topic, and especially Bradford, to have this discussion with so I'm wrapping it up on my end.

And as far as discounting Davis' accuracy if there was JUST ONE THING you couldn't criticize him for as a guy getting his first starts it would be that. Go look for yourself. I'll provide the link......

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DaviAu00/gamelog/

 

[Dodgersrf]

you seem to be hung up of the 7 on 7 stuff thinking that is my ONLY gauge for evaluating Davis.

What I said,, was the same sort of things I have seen from him in training camp, INCLUDING his struggles in that particular drill, as well as the 11 on 11 stuff, the 1 on 1 stuff, and just his overall lack of accuracy, and indecisive tendencies. You want to use what you see in actual games. Great. All the games did for me, was confirm the things I have seen from him for THREE YEARS....

You seem to dismiss the turnovers, especially the critical "pick 6's", because he showed flashes of making a play every now and then. You seem to dismiss his tendency to bail out of the pocket PREMATURELY because he panics. And even worse, once he does take off, the play is virtually over, because he SELDOM makes a play once he scrambles. In fact, that's when most of his poor decisions occur.

I get that he is still "young" (inexperienced), and sure there may be a chance he matures. But the accuracy issues, and lack of arm strength will always be a part of who he is as a QB, IMO.

As far as Bradford is concerned. The ONLY thing holding him back, IMO, (and apparently Fisher's as well) is the injury factor. To even try to compare a 25 year old (not all that young) Austin Davis to and healthy Sam Bradford is just a waste of time.

Obviously the coaching staff sees the same thing, or they wouldn't have signed Hill last year to be our #2.

 

[snackdaddy]

I would rather sign a FA or trade for one and draft a QB in the mid rounds that you think can eventually be something than bring back Hill and Davis. Both showed they had too many limitations. Davis had mobility, but lacked arm strength. Hill had neither. Draft a rookie with a good arm and the ability to move around. Maybe they can turn him into something.

 

[LesBaker]

Obviously the coaching staff sees the same thing, or they wouldn't have signed Hill last year to be our #2.

Maybe, yet when Davis was playing and Hill was healthy and recovered from his injury Fisher said it was Davis' job. So coaches can (and do) change their minds based on what they see. Maybe they thought "well he certainly plays differently in games than in practice" and kept him in because of that. We don't know of course, and I am speculating just like we all are.

All I'm saying is IMO he played well enough for a guy who was essentially a rookie that he deserves the same chance everyone else is going to get.

 

[Dodgersrf]

Maybe, yet when Davis was playing and Hill was healthy and recovered from his injury Fisher said it was Davis' job. So coaches can (and do) change their minds based on what they see. Maybe they thought "well he certainly plays differently in games than in practice" and kept him in because of that. We don't know of course, and I am speculating just like we all are.

All I'm saying is IMO he played well enough for a guy who was essentially a rookie that he deserves the same chance everyone else is going to get.

Agree.
I believe he deserves the chance as well. Sometimes guys just aren't ready. That doesn't mean they can't improve.
Warner was terrible in Green Bay. He just wasn't there yet.
Davis was fun to watch but some of his decisions were tough to swallow.
Let him come back and fight for a spot. He's going to have to show it on the practice field though.

 

[CoachO]

The same way you "know" what you do, a well trained eye,hell the coaches joked about his gut and FWIW if you can't ,and I haven't heard anyone who can identify when and how he hurt his quad AS I SAID it's JUST as reasonable to come to that conclusion .really more reasonable than this: If Hill had not had the quad injury, there is ZERO chance that anyone here would even remember the guys name at this point
A guy gets hurt in the first regular season game in the first half and you basically conclude that was the ONLY reason we ever see Davis,WHEN he was the second QB we had hurt already.
You've made some outlandish assertions in this thread O , the more strident you become about them the less I for one put in even the reasonable ones.
I never said I agree with Les THAT Davis was the "best" QB on the roster, but to be so adamant that he's terrible puts you in Jerry Glanville territory who decided a QB was terrible and traded him because he couldn't allow for his own fallibility, do I need to tell you who that QB was?
Give yourself some wiggle room dude, we all need to

fair enough.

That being said, I have been consistent in those feelings from the day he took over the reigns in the second half of the opener after Hill went down.

But I will ask you this question, then I am done beating this into the ground.

Do you accept the premise that Austin Davis was a week away from not being on the roster? Were it not for Bradford's injury, he would have been back coaching the Westminister High School team. If you in fact agree with that, doesn't it say something about the guys pedigree, that he couldn't make it out of his 3rd camp with the same organization?

 

[CoachO]

You're way to emotionally invested in this topic, and especially Bradford, to have this discussion with so I'm wrapping it up on my end.

And as far as discounting Davis' accuracy if there was JUST ONE THING you couldn't criticize him for as a guy getting his first starts it would be that. Go look for yourself. I'll provide the link......

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DaviAu00/gamelog/

His completion % doesn't mean a thing to me with regards to ACCURACY, assuming that is what you are referencing. The ONLY thing that jumps off that game log for me, is in every game he threw the ball 30 or more times, THEY LOST. In the only games he won he threw it less than 30 times. In fact, he ATTEMPTED 20 passes in the win vs Seattle for a total of 155 yards, and a whopping 24 times (105 yards) in the win vs. SF. I'd say he had less to do with those wins than anyone else on the field.

The only thing I will agree with you on, is this has gone on far too long. But please spare me the holier than thou act, as if you aren't just as emotionally invested in this topic. And from your perspective on Bradford? PLEASE!

 

[Thordaddy]

Obviously the coaching staff sees the same thing, or they wouldn't have signed Hill last year to be our #2.

And then they saw some potential in Davis, which I still see,many guys who've had a possible future in this league have been kicked to the curb prematurely, and IN game he outperformed Hill.

 

[LACHAMP46]

so I'm wrapping it up on my end.

It was just gettin good Les...I'll come back later to see if you've caught you're second wind....:snicker: