What are they going to do about this O Line?

[V3]

What's the alternative?
Can you fire him?
Can I?

There's always the petition to get him fired method, but I've found nobody really cares about those.

We may not be able to do anything about it but it doesn't mean we have to sit here and pretend everything's going just peachy and that he's some great builder of teams, either, like some people do. He's exactly what his record and fans in Tennessee said he was: an average coach.

 

[HometownBoy]

That's just not true. The Seahawks had just as much roster turnover as the Rams did in the same amount of time. We even had our QB(you left him off your list). Seattle had to draft theirs. Also, Carroll did NOT inherit Lynch. He traded a 4th round pick for him. Wanna know how many inherited players were still on Seattle's team by year four of their rebuild when they won the SB? Three: Red Bryant, Max Unger, and John Ryan. That's actually more turnover than the Rams.

I'm getting tired of hearing we need to cut Fisher some slack because the team was so bad. Other teams have done much more with less. Other teams weren't consistently picking at the top of the draft with multiple first and second round picks like the Rams did.

I left Bradford off because having him for 23 out of 48 games really isn't having him when he didn't even play in half of the games in this coaching staff's tenure.

PFF had Lynch listed as on the team since '09, that was my mistake, I should have dug a little deeper.

But it is not an excuse, it is easier to rebuild from a team that was better than anything we rebuilt from. Carroll still got good years out of the players that remained from the 2006 Super Bowl run, that is crucial, especially when you're trying to rebuild from underneath them. Just because they got rid of all their players doesn't mean they were anything like ours. What situation would you rather be in, inheriting a team with talented players who's window had closed, but still have a few years you can get out of them before you have to replace them, thus giving you time to mull your options or players who are completely mediocre or terrible whom you have to replace immediately with whoever you like at the time because they cannot be relied on. It's the difference in having time to look and throwing whatever you think will stick at a wall and hoping it'll stick while you take care of other glaring deficiencies. It's the difference between being like, oh that guy didn't stick thank god for (blank) lets go try again or fuck (blank) didn't stick now we have to choose between taking care of that hole and leaving another wide open or vice versa.

We hadn't sniffed the playoffs at any time before Fisher was even a twinkle in our eye our team was completely trash and half of our players we couldn't rely on to continue to play while we went and got more talent. Again, situations are not the same just because records or other superlative like that. Lots of different things go into what makes a team shit, the Seahawks teams were not nearly as hard off for talent like we were.

 

[-X-]

We may not be able to do anything about it but it doesn't mean we have to sit here and pretend everything's going just peachy and that he's some great builder of teams, either, like some people do. He's exactly what his record and fans in Tennessee said he was: an average coach.

True, but we also don't have to sit here and complain about things out of our control 24/7.
Like some people do.
If he's an average coach, then he's an average coach. Find a way to deal with it.

 

[FRO]

For the record I am a firm Fisher/Snead guy. The inherited a black hole of a roster. I think Fisher is a solid coach. The team respects him. There is a lot to like with those two. I do think however that it's totally fair to critique how the offense was built considering we are now in year 4 of the rebuild and we are hoping and praying our offense will be at minimum average this year. I think by not being sure what style they wanted to be from day one hurt them a little. If the line gels quickly the other pieces are there to succeed.

 

[V3]

I left Bradford off because having him for 23 out of 48 games really isn't having him when he didn't even play in half of the games in this coaching staff's tenure.

PFF had Lynch listed as on the team since '09, that was my mistake, I should have dug a little deeper.

But it is not an excuse, it is easier to rebuild from a team that was better than anything we rebuilt from. Carroll still got good years out of the players that remained from the 2006 Super Bowl run, that is crucial, especially when you're trying to rebuild from underneath them. Just because they got rid of all their players doesn't mean they were anything like ours. What situation would you rather be in, inheriting a team with talented players who's window had closed, but still have a few years you can get out of them before you have to replace them, thus giving you time to mull your options or players who are completely mediocre or terrible whom you have to replace immediately with whoever you like at the time because they cannot be relied on. It's the difference in having time to look and throwing whatever you think will stick at a wall and hoping it'll stick while you take care of other glaring deficiencies. It's the difference between being like, oh that guy didn't stick thank god for (blank) lets go try again or freak (blank) didn't stick now we have to choose between taking care of that hole and leaving another wide open or vice versa.

We hadn't sniffed the playoffs at any time before Fisher was even a twinkle in our eye our team was completely trash and half of our players we couldn't rely on to continue to play while we went and got more talent. Again, situations are not the same just because records or other superlative like that. Lots of different things go into what makes a team crap, the Seahawks teams were not nearly as hard off for talent like we were.

If you're replacing just as many players as another team, wouldn't it be easier to rebuild your team if you picked higher in the draft and had more picks in the first and second round? That's what the Rams did. Would you rather start your team with Long, Quinn, and JL (I'll leave Bradford off) or Red Bryant, Unger, and Ryan?

Personally, I'd rather go with what the Rams started with with our players, all the picks, and how high we drafted each year.

 

[HometownBoy]

If you're replacing just as many players as another team, wouldn't it be easier to rebuild your team if you picked higher in the draft and had more picks in the first and second round? That's what the Rams did. Would you rather start your team with Long, Quinn, and JL (I'll leave Bradford off) or Red Bryant, Unger, and Ryan?

Personally, I'd rather go with what the Rams started with with our players, all the picks, and how high we drafted each year.

I'd rather start with a team that had Hasselback, Trufant, Bryant, Locklear, Unger and Ryan on it from when he took over to any point in time where he is now than just JL55, Quinn, Long and absolutely nobody else worth mentioning when Fisher took over in 2012. Having players you can afford the luxury of replacing is a lot better off than having to replace players immediately because your options are guys who have no business being in the league. Having a guy who already proved he can take a team far into the playoffs is what can afford you to take a shot on some QB nobody cared about in the 3rd that took your team far, having guys like Trufant manning the defense is what affords you the luxury to go out and replacements like Chancellor while he's still out there busting heads. There is simply no arguing that having players that can stay and play while you go replace them is better than cutting mediocre guys immediately and having to replace them immediately and hoping that it doesn't fall apart while you worry about trying to replace the other set of mediocre guys out there. You can try and discount them because they weren't still around for their Super Bowl win, but having the guys from the 2006 run still playing good ball definitely helped advance their rebuild by affording them time we couldn't get.

Also that's ignoring again that there was more holes that we needed to fill than they did, because again they had good players who they got a few good years out of before they had to replace them instead of replacing them immediately. High draft picks or not, barring all the trades that's only 7 picks to fix an entire team that only had 3 guys out of 22 guys solid. There's less of a margin for error. If the picks didn't make it who else would they have to fall on? Nobody.

If Wilson hadn't panned out he could have kept Hasselback, if Chancellor hadn't panned out he could have kept Trufant. Our situations were nowhere similar.

 

[jmyb53]

from what im seeing we only have 2 decent players on line . Brown and Saffold. one is a injury waiting to happen and the other just got injured. they gotta do something. The line is going to hurt whole offense

I watched every play by Rhaney and Jones and I think they both did well. Rhaney did a lot of good things, especially on screens, and when he was at center against Tennessee, he had a couple of plays where he blocked two guys,

Jones is much quicker than Barnes, but he's a position blocker. So, my issue now is our tackles. The rookie right tackle's pass blocking isn't there yet nor is Robinson's/

 

[lockdnram21]

I watched every play by Rhaney and Jones and I think they both did well. Rhaney did a lot of good things, especially on screens, and when he was at center against Tennessee, he had a couple of plays where he blocked two guys,

Jones is much quicker than Barnes, but he's a position blocker. So, my issue now is our tackles. The rookie right tackle's pass blocking isn't there yet nor is Robinson's/

run blocking isnt there either. at least we were able to complete some passes. We couldnt run at all

 

[jmyb53]

run blocking isnt there either. at least we were able to complete some passes. We couldnt run at all

I watched Jones and Rhaney every play. HAd to watch it twice, I have not looked at every play by the tackles from last night. Or the left guard. You have to watch the online 5 times to see every guy on every play, but I saw breakdowns from the edges, not the inside, but I admit, I need to look closer.

essentially, the starters were in for the first half only.

 

[lockdnram21]

I watched Jones and Rhaney every play. HAd to watch it twice, I have not looked at every play by the tackles from last night. Or the left guard. You have to watch the online 5 times to see every guy on every play, but I saw breakdowns from the edges, not the inside, but I admit, I need to look closer.

essentially, the starters were in for the first half only.

what about brown before he got hurt

 

[jmyb53]

what about brown before he got hurt

I think I will invest another 18 minutes to watch the first half and focus on Brown. On NFL replay you can watch it in condensed mode and see every play from last nights first half in less than 20 minutes.

actually, did it faster,

I grade Brown as positve on 15 of 18 plays, and that is grading pretty hard. No big errors, no holds, no pressures allowed.

 

[OldSchool]

What are we going to do about the OLine? Well chances are pretty good we're going to let them practice together and receive coaching. Then we'll let them run out together and get lots of game time experience because that's the only way they get better. I know it's a novel concept to let people work at their craft to get better and not give up on them after a couple practices and scrimmages.

 

[lockdnram21]

I think I will invest another 18 minutes to watch the first half and focus on Brown. On NFL replay you can watch it in condensed mode and see every play from last nights first half in less than 20 minutes.

i have it on dvr im a watch again to

 

[Rams43]

I think much of the angst in this thread might be a bit premature, guys.

Here's my thinking from a macro POV...

I think our D is likely gonna be a top 5 unit once GW settles down and let's them play as they did in the last half of '14.

I think we have every reason to expect excellent ST play again this year.

Can I get an amen on those two phases of the game?

Now as to the O, there's lots of good news there, too.

I'm now convinced that Foles can be our playoff caliber QB. That's beyond huge.
I think our RB corps is playoff worthy, too.
I think our WR corps is 6 deep thanks to Givens and also playoff worthy.
Cook, Kendricks, and Harkey make our TE corps strong, as well.

Which leaves the OL subset that many are fretting over...

But there's good news there, also...

I think we found our starting C in Jones last night.
Rhaney looked really promising at RG.
JB, when healthy again, should be a stud at LG next to GRob.
Saffold can return to RG where he played his career best football in '13, helping Hav in the process.
GRob is admittedly a work in progress, but his high ceiling comforts me. He's still a baby at LOT with only 8 career starts there under his belt.
Hav is a rookie work in progress, too. Might need TE blocking help for a while. Kinda normal for rookie OL, actually.
The Battle pick looks like a brilliant move.
Reynolds has generally played well when he's in there.
Rhaney, as mentioned, looks like a quality backup at C and OG.
Donnal has played well in preseason.

That's a helluva lot of good news for our developing OL, if you ask me.

So, given the strength of our D and ST, plus the strengths of the other parts of our O, I think we have good reason for optimism, fellas. They may have to scheme around our OT's for a while, but I do believe the ingredients for success on O are already on the roster.

Foles was the biggest question mark, at least for me. And he has answered that question in a positive manner, IMO.

 

[RamFan503]

Bleh. I'm staying off this board today.

Don't feel like getting out of bed just to hang my head. Last night got me excited for some real Rams football (win or lose), but instead I get to read about how the O-line sucks, Fisher freaked up the rebuild, we can't stop committing penalties, pre-season matters for suck-ass teams, we overreached for Tavon, and blah blah boo fuckety hoo. It's a beautiful morning, so I'm gonna go enjoy it.

If there's a big pool of tears on this board when I get back, I ain't cleanin' it up.

Yep. Gets pretty old.

The great thing is that we have a few members that really see what we are obviously missing. I mean if we are not preaching doom and gloom and how bad is the coaching staff, we obviously can't see it. Thanks guys. Blue font should be obviously missing here.

They should have come in day one with an offensive philosophy like they did on defense a drafted guys that fit. We aren't too far off however. If this line can gel quickly we have enough offense to make the playoffs. Foles is a good QB. We have quality backs. Our receivers aren't the greatest, but they are good enough. We just need that line to come together quickly. My only complaint is waiting until year 4 of the rebuild to invest heavily in the line. Cordy Glenn and Larry Warford would do more for this team than Brian Quick and Tavon Austin in my opinion.

I can appreciate what you are saying but almost to a man everyone was bitching about the talent level of our skill positions before. Choose your poisons. I like the approach of building units and not using a shot gun. There are 5 guys on the O-line. If a couple are really good and others are decent/good, often times you have a pretty good unit. It's not like we did nothing over that time. It just didn't work out that great largely due to injuries to our best O-linemen. So now we go youth and it is still the wrong way to do it according to some.

Sorry but I've seen some pretty damn fine no name O-lines and the fans never saw them coming together until it happened - I can guarantee you.

Or even worse went half in on offense and half in on defense and neither side is able to do much at all.

Thank you. Losing 28 - 12 is always a great time - eh?

When your 2nd year OT that was taken 2nd overall looks like Jason Smith, there are going to be concerns. He's not only getting beat due to poor technique, he's getting overpowered. Not calling him a bust yet or anything but if you don't see why people are starting to voice some concerns, I don't know what to say. It's worthy of being mentioned.

I call bullshit. Jason Smith was a mistake. The writing was on the wall. From the system he played in to the fact that he was a converted TE to the work ethic that was discovered when he got here. No it's not worthy of being mentioned OVER AND OVER again. "Not calling him a bust yet" Well that's mighty big of you. BTW - using the word "yet" there is kind of a tell.

Look. We're not blind. Some of us just may not see the high school level line you apparently do or would rather not be constantly berated with negativity, so we don't spew it ourselves so others have to read it.

And we do remember Jason Smith, it's why everyone is concerned. You know, guy's got the physical tools, just needs time, well we'll work on that technique, that stuff?

The knock against Jason Smith was that he actually didn't have the physical tools until Baylor U essentially built him into a LT. But by that time, the hype machine was in full motion and JS was everyone's top LT. In hindsight, we should have seen that coming.

Guess we'll see but GRob has the natural size, is faster, bigger, longer arms, better punch, and has a very good work ethic.

Fixed it for ya -X-, blue'd it up.....know you're just BS'ing everybody!

Not sure he was.

We may not be able to do anything about it but it doesn't mean we have to sit here and pretend everything's going just peachy and that he's some great builder of teams, either, like some people do. He's exactly what his record and fans in Tennessee said he was: an average coach.

Much cooler to harp on everything.

 

[FRO]

Yep. Gets pretty old.

The great thing is that we have a few members that really see what we are obviously missing. I mean if we are not preaching doom and gloom and how bad is the coaching staff, we obviously can't see it. Thanks guys. Blue font should be obviously missing here.


I can appreciate what you are saying but almost to a man everyone was bitching about the talent level of our skill positions before. Choose your poisons. I like the approach of building units and not using a shot gun. There are 5 guys on the O-line. If a couple are really good and others are decent/good, often times you have a pretty good unit. It's not like we did nothing over that time. It just didn't work out that great largely due to injuries to our best O-linemen. So now we go youth and it is still the wrong way to do it according to some.

Sorry but I've seen some pretty damn fine no name O-lines and the fans never saw them coming together until it happened - I can guarantee you.


Thank you. Losing 28 - 12 is always a great time - eh?


I call bullcrap. Jason Smith was a mistake. The writing was on the wall. From the system he played in to the fact that he was a converted TE to the work ethic that was discovered when he got here. No it's not worthy of being mentioned OVER AND OVER again. "Not calling him a bust yet" Well that's mighty big of you. BTW - using the word "yet" there is kind of a tell.

Look. We're not blind. Some of us just may not see the high school level line you apparently do or would rather not be constantly berated with negativity, so we don't spew it ourselves so others have to read it.


The knock against Jason Smith was that he actually didn't have the physical tools until Baylor U essentially built him into a LT. But by that time, the hype machine was in full motion and JS was everyone's top LT. In hindsight, we should have seen that coming.

Guess we'll see but GRob has the natural size, is faster, bigger, longer arms, better punch, and has a very good work ethic.



Not sure he was.


Much cooler to harp on everything.

I was one who wanted playmakers over weapons. Looking back I was dead wrong. If I could go back I would advocate building a killer line over playmakers. I've only high lighted two instances where picking line over playmaker would have helped us more for what we want to do. Total hindsight and unfair, but it's what I believe. I haven't been malicious or ignorant about what I've said, just used it as a discussion point. I don't know why it angers people. Maybe our inexperienced line pulls it together for week one and makes me look like an idiot. It wouldn't be the first or last time I was wrong and in this instance I pray I am wrong.

 

[V3]

I call bullcrap. Jason Smith was a mistake. The writing was on the wall. From the system he played in to the fact that he was a converted TE to the work ethic that was discovered when he got here. No it's not worthy of being mentioned OVER AND OVER again. "Not calling him a bust yet" Well that's mighty big of you. BTW - using the word "yet" there is kind of a tell.

Look. We're not blind. Some of us just may not see the high school level line you apparently do or would rather not be constantly berated with negativity, so we don't spew it ourselves so others have to read it.

If you don't like it, don't read it. Simple as that. And yes, "yet". I say, "yet" because there's still the possibility he'll eventually get it. It has nothing to do with how I felt about him before the Rams took him. I honestly thought he'd be better than this by now. I realize it takes some longer than others to get it so there's still a chance, hence the "yet". I just have my odds of him becoming the All Pro LT that the Rams sold him as becoming much lower than before.

But again, if you don't like that, by all means, use the ignore feature.

 

[RamFan503]

I was one who wanted playmakers over weapons. Looking back I was dead wrong. If I could go back I would advocate building a killer line over playmakers. I've only high lighted two instances where picking line over playmaker would have helped us more for what we want to do. Total hindsight and unfair, but it's what I believe. I haven't been malicious or ignorant about what I've said, just used it as a discussion point. I don't know why it angers people. Maybe our inexperienced line pulls it together for week one and makes me look like an idiot. It wouldn't be the first or last time I was wrong and in this instance I pray I am wrong.

Nah man - it's just the constant harping by some. It gets old. We can see. Most of us are pretty well in tune with what the Rams are doing even if we don't choose to make every post about how bad we have looked in pre-season. Some of can even see some good things when watching.

I appreciate what you are saying about playmakers over weapons in that we all have a method we see as the way to go. It's just the incessant griping harshes my mellow. Feel me dog?

Anyway, I gotta go put some siding on my house.

Cheers

 

[RamFan503]

If you don't like it, don't read it. Simple as that. And yes, "yet". I say, "yet" because there's still the possibility he'll eventually get it. It has nothing to do with how I felt about him before the Rams took him. I honestly thought he'd be better than this by now. I realize it takes some longer than others to get it so there's still a chance, hence the "yet". I just have my odds of him becoming the All Pro LT that the Rams sold him as becoming much lower than before.

But again, if you don't like that, by all means, use the ignore feature.

I am suggesting you tone it down. Simple as that. I am a moderator and don't use the ignore function. Capiche? If I feel you are dragging down the mood of the site, I am going to say something. I have and you are.

 

[ramsince62]

Yeah, but there's a flip-side to that too. They could have invested heavily in the O-line early on, but then it's possible we're complaining about our super sucky defense that can't seem to cover anyone or stop the run, and we constantly give up 30+ points to other teams.

Now I gotta hear, "What the freak is wrong with Fisher? He's supposed to be a strong defensive minded coach, and we absolutely suck on defense. I don't know why he kept drafting offensive linemen when we have nobody to run the ball and no receivers worth a crap. Could have used some draft capital on that, right? And why can't we EVER find anyone who can return punts???? It's been 15 years since we were glad to have Hakim fumbling for us! And can we PLEASE get someone to plug up the middle of the defense so we stop getting gashed for 200 yards by no-name running backs for once! And maybe a corner or two who knows how to play man coverage? I swear to God, Fisher is the worst thing to happen to us since Jason Smith. At least he didn't have a hand in drafting THAT pile of rubbish with one of his high picks. I guess I'll give him a D- where Devaney gets an F."

I think it's just about human nature Paul, especially when one considers the seemingly endless drought this team seems to experience. Let's be honest, this team disappoints all too often. We watch other teams bring in a new coach and staff and rapidly become successful. This team never seems to get it completely done despite the endless drafts. Heaven knows we've been through an amazing rotation of coaches, philosophy's, injuries, top draft flops and cursed QB's.

Heck, maybe the answer is a witch doctor or perhaps even an exorcism. In any event, I've personally attempted to hold my opinion's and expectations until after game 3, which I'll now save for the I'm sure to follow, early season win-loss polls and predictions.

Ultimately, it's all about winning, do that and all is forgiven........fail to win......well we know that story already.