What about Shaquem Griffin

[jrry32]

That's why my jaw dropped when I saw he'd be attending the draft.

Do they stay for day two?

Yea.

 

[LACHAMP46]

And I like speed guys too....

I watched his 40...watched his second one too....big discrepancy.....but he's fast....

I saw his last game....and an earlier one...but not as much as the last one....

dude is gonna have problems tackling a PRO with one arm....He's gonna have problems bringing down QBs.....I know he'll have trouble with RB's...

He'll have problems tackling...but he'll really have problems getting off grown man blocks and making plays....You're not blocked the same on ST's....open field...but at the point of attack in a set play...after the snap...dude is gonna have serious problems..

He has a pot gut and weighs 220 lbs.....he probably should be around 200 and play safety.

No way this guy is a success at the NFL level....dudes are too prideful....they'll play harder against him...just to avoid being in a joke...one armed guy did THIS to you....yada yada:blah:

Not hating...just evaluating...

I just don't see how a kid with only one hand can be an effective tackler in the NFL.

Agreed Kevin....

this has been said about him his whole life at every different level, obviously the last one being college. He’s overcome it all so far, I feel like he will again.

And I wish him well...but this isn't college....

OK, I give up. I am completely done on this topic.

Don't give up so fast Kev...they do that in here....only guy on an island...naw...several are with you...you got more than 3 pages in you...plus...you are correct.

Unlike JPP this guy has dealt (and overcame) with this his entire life

JPP still has MOST of his right hand...he can still grab, strike, and rip with his remaining appendages...I'd like to see Shaq do this...against PRO's....b4 assuming he could just do this....and this isn't tackling...this is getting off a block...his only remaining recourse's are to strike and shed with his shoulder/forearm...or out maneuver the opponent with foot speed and quickness....basically running around blocks...and some of you wanna put him in the middle????

 

[jrry32]

And I like speed guys too....

I watched his 40...watched his second one too....big discrepancy.....but he's fast....

I saw his last game....and an earlier one...but not as much as the last one....

dude is gonna have problems tackling a PRO with one arm....He's gonna have problems bringing down QBs.....I know he'll have trouble with RB's...

He'll have problems tackling...but he'll really have problems getting off grown man blocks and making plays....You're not blocked the same on ST's....open field...but at the point of attack in a set play...after the snap...dude is gonna have serious problems..

He has a pot gut and weighs 220 lbs.....he probably should be around 200 and play safety.

No way this guy is a success at the NFL level....dudes are too prideful....they'll play harder against him...just to avoid being in a joke...one armed guy did THIS to you....yada yada:blah:

Not hating...just evaluating...

Agreed Kevin....

And I wish him well...but this isn't college....

Don't give up so fast Kev...they do that in here....only guy on an island...naw...several are with you...you got more than 3 pages in you...plus...you are correct.
JPP still has MOST of his right hand...he can still grab, strike, and rip with his remaining appendages...I'd like to see Shaq do this...against PRO's....b4 assuming he could just do this....and this isn't tackling...this is getting off a block...his only remaining recourse's are to strike and shed with his shoulder/forearm...or out maneuver the opponent with foot speed and quickness....basically running around blocks...and some of you wanna put him in the middle????

Weak. Very weak.

 

[ramsplaya16]

And I wish him well...but this isn't college....

as I said, it’s been said his whole life.

I’m sure when he got to high school they said it, then when he got to college they said this isn’t high school, so he probably won’t suceed.

When you find someone who has drive like this, they constantly prove people wrong, listen, I know it’s not football, but I am a basketball coach, and there’s a ton you can tell about character and how bad a kid wants it. And this kid wants it, hes gonna ball, just watch.

 

[Dodgersrf]

I haven't seen him play, but I don't see a missing hand being a huge problem as far as tackling.
You can still hit and wrap a guy up with the arms. Some guys don't even use their arms anymore, they use their shoulders. (This actually drives me nuts).

Now if he was an offensive lineman, I'd say no way.

 

[LACHAMP46]

Weak. Very weak.

as I said, it’s been said his whole life.

I’m sure when he got to high school they said it, then when he got to college they said this isn’t high school, so he probably won’t suceed.

When you find someone who has drive like this, they constantly prove people wrong, listen, I know it’s not football, but I am a basketball coach, and there’s a ton you can tell about character and how bad a kid wants it. And this kid wants it, hes gonna ball, just watch.

We shall see

He'll get drafted....lets see how he plays

 

[jrry32]

dude is gonna have problems tackling a PRO with one arm....He's gonna have problems bringing down QBs.....I know he'll have trouble with RB's...

He'll have problems tackling...but he'll really have problems getting off grown man blocks and making plays....You're not blocked the same on ST's....open field...but at the point of attack in a set play...after the snap...dude is gonna have serious problems..

He has a pot gut and weighs 220 lbs.....he probably should be around 200 and play safety.

No way this guy is a success at the NFL level....dudes are too prideful....they'll play harder against him...just to avoid being in a joke...one armed guy did THIS to you....yada yada:blah:

JPP still has MOST of his right hand...he can still grab, strike, and rip with his remaining appendages...I'd like to see Shaq do this...against PRO's....b4 assuming he could just do this....and this isn't tackling...this is getting off a block...his only remaining recourse's are to strike and shed with his shoulder/forearm...or out maneuver the opponent with foot speed and quickness....basically running around blocks...and some of you wanna put him in the middle????

As for Griffin, I'm just not confident he can hold up to NFL blockers like he did in college. I understand that this is a devisive player amongst posters here, so I'm not gonna get into a big debate. He's gonna get his chance to play somewhere, and we will see how it goes. It's not like I wish him any ill will.

How much of Roquan Smith's film have you two seen? He's considered by some to be the top LB in the Draft. He's basically a lock to go in the 5 to 20 range of the Draft. The guy sticks to blockers like glue. Where did Alec Ogletree get drafted? When did you ever see him fight off blocks? Where did James Laurinaitis get drafted? When did you ever see him fight off blocks? How often does Deion Jones defeat blocks?

The idea that you have to defeat blocks to play LB in the NFL is way off the mark. But here's the silliness of this critique, Shaquem Griffin actually showed the ability to defeat blocks in college. That's more than any of the guys I listed above did. Y'all keep assuming that he won't do it in the NFL, but if he can handle a 300+ pound LT in college, why can't he do it in the NFL?

And I'm happy to provide video evidence of Griffin's ability to stack or shed blocks:

He stands up 6'5" 330 pound LT Derwin Gray, sheds the block, and tackles the HB.

He bullrushed Arkansas State's RT back into the QB's face, sheds the block, and makes the sack.

Temple is stupid enough to try and block him with a HB. He obliterates the HB, strips the ball despite his missing hand, and tackles the runner.

Are you honestly trying to tell me that this guy is a worse at taking on blocks than any other LB with his level of athleticism? Hell to the no. He's better than Roquan Smith at stacking and shedding blocks.

Anyone who thinks this kid will fare worse at taking on blocks in the NFL than any other uber athletic undersized LB has no clue. And the idea that he won't be able to tackle is a farce. Yes, his missing hand will limit him at times, but his incredible athleticism, instincts, and intangibles will more than compensate for that.

How is he going to tackle NFL HBs? Well, shit, here he is tackling a projected second round pick:

Feel free to ask Kerryon Johnson about Griffin's ability to make plays.

 

[jrry32]

BTW, I'm not sure a lot of people will realize how amazing this play is at first blush:

But Griffin stops to carry out his assignment of ensuring that the QB doesn't have the ball on the boot-leg, and then he still runs down a very talented HB from across the field before he reaches the LOS. That's what 4.38 speed on a guy with outstanding instincts and intangibles does. Griffin makes plays very, very few guys could make. Griffin is a special talent who is tailor made for today's NFL. The guy's range is truly incredible, and he's absolutely fearless when it comes to attacking blockers. There are going to be 31 teams kicking themselves for not drafting him higher.

 

[Malibu]

His pluses his desire to win so he definitely has a chip on his shoulder. His speed is a major plus.

His minuses his weight 224 he needs to be in the mid 240s. Most importantly he played inferior competition at UCF.

 

[jrry32]

His pluses his desire to win so he definitely has a chip on his shoulder. His speed is a major plus.

His minuses his weight 224 he needs to be in the mid 240s. Most importantly he played inferior competition at UCF.

His best game of the year came against an Auburn team that beat both Alabama and Georgia.

And he doesn't need to be in the mid-240s. He's 227 right now. Deion Jones and Telvin Smith, two of the best LBs in the NFL, are lighter than Griffin. Luke Kuechly is only 238 pounds despite being 3 inches taller. And then you have Wesley Woodyard, Lavonte David, Kwon Alexander, Darron Lee, Ryan Shazier, Thomas Davis, and Todd Davis who are all similar to Griffin in size. Concerns about his size are way overblown.

 

[shaunpinney]

Personally I think the only thing going against Griffin is the hand issue.

Watching his tape though, you don't notice it, you just see a draft able guy, I love the speed he plays with and he seems to have a high motor - he also punishes as he hits and I LOVE that!!

Some People / GMs will see the lack of a left hand as a major issue in drafting him, but it's not an issue for Griffin and he still plays better than a lot of draftees with 2 hands.

 

[LACHAMP46]

The idea that you have to defeat blocks to play LB in the NFL is way off the mark.

I doubt that...
Defeating blocks...in the middle of the field...is crucial to successfully stopping the run.

Are you honestly trying to tell me that this guy is a worse at taking on blocks than any other LB with his level of athleticism? Hell to the no. He's better than Roquan Smith at stacking and shedding blocks.

Just a few of those clips above...first one vs Maryland....OT basically pushed him into the play...
Next on vs Arkansas State....Ark St...won't see a tackle like the one at Ark St. or the one at Maryland....
Better than Smith....hmmmm....??? That's one mans opinion....and because I respect you Jrry....I won't get into that...only that....we shall see. These are, in fact, just projections and speculations....

Anyone who thinks this kid will fare worse at taking on blocks in the NFL than any other uber athletic undersized LB has no clue.

He doesn't have two hands....anyone that thinks a guy with one hand....in a contact sport like football...won't be at a severe disadvantage....also may not have a clue...this is the pros....you need two hands to deal with professionals....

Look, I grew up with a guy that had a similar...similar...situation...he was also born with a smaller hand....he played sports....very athletic....he didn't play football, but baseball and basketball....We played pickup ball all the time....I remember this so well because when Rodney...his name...Rod Grey....would stick me in hoops, his smaller hand had these sharp & thick nails....and he's scratch me sometimes....he had a way of shifting his glove in baseball like that guy the Angels signed (Jim Abbott?)....and he could only go left on the courts....but he was athletic...and....yall know me, it took me awhile, but he earned my respect...although I did wanna punch his grabbing ass once or 5 times. LOLOL Point being, one side of his body, he was at a decided disadvantage...the same ones Shaq will face....against top athletes...I don't think he'll be effective. Nothing against him....just don't....Speed, power, ability....that's how I roll....he has speed, may have some ability (but again, only at THAT level), but I can also tell he lacks true power...on that side of his body....he weighs 220 lbs....but has a gut. Indicates to me, to me Jrry, that he's probably playing out of position....
And for these reasons, I wouldn't want to draft him.

 

[jrry32]

He doesn't have two hands....anyone that thinks a guy with one hand....in a contact sport like football...won't be at a severe disadvantage....also may not have a clue...this is the pros....you need two hands to deal with professionals....

Bullshit. We hear crap like this every year. A 285 pound DT can't hold up against NFL OLs. A WR with 4.6 speed can't separate against NFL CBs. A 5'11" QB can't succeed in the NFL. Year after year, those people look foolish. His missing hand is a flaw, but like any other flaw, it can be overcome. You can make all excuses you want about how the NFL is different, but it's unconvincing because I've heard that same excuse a million other times.

P.S. The Maryland OT didn't push him into the play. That was 100% Griffin standing him up, getting himself in a proper position, and then shedding the block.

 

[Merlin]

The lack of a hand does not just limit his ability to disengage, take, catch etc. but, it will play a big role in his strength and conditioning development. Also, what if he injured his other hand/elbow/shoulder etc? Like the poster above, I was wary of him, but after checking his tape, he is actually better than expected. I would still be wary of drafting him. Imagine him dropping a game winning pick or missing a vital tackle. The pressure on the kid is gonna be immense.

For me it just comes down to value irt where they pick him. In that round 3-4 range you have guys like Jewell, who will be a good depth ILB at the least but who is also going to struggle more in coverage than Griffin will. Those types tend to require some time to adjust and in some of the ILB cases will never be more than a guy who can drop into a zone at best. Griffin's athleticism counters his lack of the hand, because the passing game and being able to be a 3 down ILB is extremely desirable.

So basically he slots in before those types for myself. Depending on how guys go off the board it just looks like round 3 but it's really hard to say even if my board were accurate which I realize it's not.

 

[A.J. Hicks]

I really like this guy. I hope Snead has him earmarked in his scouting reports.

The thing about not having a hand is it may be difficult to make some interceptions. May have some other disadvantages.

But this guy shows some incredible intangibles on tape.

By a long shot I think this guy is Ability>disability

 

[jrry32]

I want to come back this because I am truly baffled by your claim here:

That is textbook OLB play. The OL most certainly does not block him into the HB. The OL is trying to drive him out of the play. Watch the OL's body as he approaches Griffin. He's trying to seal him and drive him out of the way to create a huge hole. Griffin stands him up, attacks his outside shoulder to put himself in position to contain the run, and then he throws the OL off of him to shed the block and make the tackle. That is beautiful LB play. He gets an assist from #97 who forces the HB into him, but Griffin is exactly where he should be, containing the run in case the HB tries to bounce outside.

And he's not defeating some D-II 260 pound jobber who will never sniff the NFL. That OT is 6'5" 330 pounds and would have been drafted this year had he declared for the Draft. That guy is going to play on Sundays.

Simply put, Griffin takes on blockers better than just about any LB his size. He takes on blockers better than Roquan Smith, Deion Jones, Ryan Shazier, and Telvin Smith. Yet, he still possesses the athleticism and instincts that all those guys possess. You don't care about any of that. You made your mind up on the kid when you heard he only has one hand. Ignoring the film is always a big no-no.

 

[fanotodd]

And I like speed guys too....

I watched his 40...watched his second one too....big discrepancy.....but he's fast....

I saw his last game....and an earlier one...but not as much as the last one....

dude is gonna have problems tackling a PRO with one arm....He's gonna have problems bringing down QBs.....I know he'll have trouble with RB's...

He'll have problems tackling...but he'll really have problems getting off grown man blocks and making plays....You're not blocked the same on ST's....open field...but at the point of attack in a set play...after the snap...dude is gonna have serious problems..

He has a pot gut and weighs 220 lbs.....he probably should be around 200 and play safety.

No way this guy is a success at the NFL level....dudes are too prideful....they'll play harder against him...just to avoid being in a joke...one armed guy did THIS to you....yada yada:blah:

Not hating...just evaluating...

Agreed Kevin....

And I wish him well...but this isn't college....

Don't give up so fast Kev...they do that in here....only guy on an island...naw...several are with you...you got more than 3 pages in you...plus...you are correct.
JPP still has MOST of his right hand...he can still grab, strike, and rip with his remaining appendages...I'd like to see Shaq do this...against PRO's....b4 assuming he could just do this....and this isn't tackling...this is getting off a block...his only remaining recourse's are to strike and shed with his shoulder/forearm...or out maneuver the opponent with foot speed and quickness....basically running around blocks...and some of you wanna put him in the middle????

Like I posted earlier, this is a very devisive player on this board; but I think you have very accurately represented the "other side" in your analysis. I could not express succinctly what you have.

Another factor is where would he be playing? Inside or out? His only shot is situational on the outside, IMHO.

 

[Corbin]

Idk about you guys but this dude is a beast. I have no question he’ll succeed if used right but I’m not sure with our scheme and current personal if he fits for us using our limited 3rd rounders on him. I’d love to have him but it seems we really need a run stopping strong ILB and a OLB tweeter right? He strikes me more as the Barrón role within our D and personal right? I wouldn’t mind picking him up and release Barrón. Just wasn’t a fan of releasing Barrón this year.

 

[jrry32]

Idk about you guys but this dude is a beast. I have no question he’ll succeed if used right but I’m not sure with our scheme and current personal if he fits for us using our limited 3rd rounders on him. I’d love to have him but it seems we really need a run stopping strong ILB and a OLB tweeter right? He strikes me more as the Barrón role within our D and personal right? I wouldn’t mind picking him up and release Barrón. Just wasn’t a fan of releasing Barrón this year.

This is my thought. I believe the Rams are genuine about their liking Littleton. The dude can play the run. I have concerns about him in pass coverage, but Wade has been willing to accept that in the past. My thought is that we draft Griffin to replace Barron, but he won't replace him this year. We cut Barron after 2018 to open up cap to re-sign our FAs. Griffin replaces him as the starter in 2019. That makes sense to me because Griffin might need some time to adjust to playing ILB.

What does Griffin do in 2018? He plays special teams (the dude will be a monster special teamer), and he rushes the passer in passing situations. The guy has insane speed/explosion/acceleration with the ability to bend around the edge. With our interior push, he'd feast as a situational rusher. QBs would have nowhere to go.

That's why I love the pick. He prepares us to save money in the future, he stars on special teams today, and he brings pass rushing ability in subpackages. But frankly, if we wanted Griffin to start next to Barron, I think he could. With Suh, Donald, and Brockers on the DL, our LBs aren't going to get pounded by blockers like last year. Griffin has already shown the ability to shed blocks, fearlessness when attacking downhill, and the range to run down any play anywhere on the field. He'd be a true 3-down ILB for us. Still, I think they really like Littleton in the thumper role.

 

[jrry32]

Like I posted earlier, this is a very devisive player on this board; but I think you have very accurately represented the "other side" in your analysis. I could not express succinctly what you have.

Another factor is where would he be playing? Inside or out? His only shot is situational on the outside, IMHO.

How? He's got the same skill-set that Ryan Shazier does, except he's shown more ability to defeat blocks at the POA. Shazier plays ILB for the Steelers. And he actually had developed into their best defensive player before his spinal injury.

He's a perfect fit as the Mo in this defense.