Views on PFF - curious what everyone thinks

[Elmgrovegnome]

They always had AD at the top of their grades and rankings. So, they can’t be that bad of a system because we all witnessed his domination.

However, they often have grades that make no sense. So they need to rethink how they do it, especially on Oline.

 

[Merlin]

That same system also rated Byron Murphy II (0.5 sack rookie season) as the 2nd best interior pass rusher in the country and Braden Fiske (8.5 sack rookie season) as basically undraftable. Can anyone explain this?

He had some iffy games. I remember watching a couple that were early in the season and not thinking much of him. Then after Senior Bowl week and game where it was clear he was a problem as a pass rush threat, I watched more. So maybe they did similar.

His later games in the season he was beasting. Which matches what he said about adjusting from the MAC.

 

[DzRams]

I fully agree with what’s already been said regarding schemes and assignments.

Additionally, the average game has about 150 plays. With 22 players on each of these, that’s 3,300 individual assessments to be made per game.

There’s absolutely no way that can accurately be done in the time frame they have for releasing their grades post-match.

You're a tad high on number of snaps. If you just look at Rams plays on offense and defense for this year, it's averaged approx. 60 snaps per side. The average game is closer to 120 total snaps.

That is still a staggering amount of plays to grade....However, we have no idea how large PFF's staff is. I've been a subscriber to PFF for many years. What I do know is that years ago, they used to take longer - sometimes a few days - to release grades. Now it seems overnight. As they've grown in prominence, they probably have a pretty large staff now.

 

[bubbaramfan]

PFF Worthless. Armchair geeks who can't get laid.

 

[20hrswk]

I'm not saying PFF is perfect, for me especially because they don't account for level of competition, but I am saying it's way better than me/average fans in analyzing player performance.

I don't think it will matter as those of you who are negative on PFF seem pretty dug in, but some stuff I found on the internet seems to say all nfl teams use PFF to some extent. If it's good enough for them . . . :

"Rams head coach Sean McVay, meanwhile, hired PFF senior analyst and former NFL QB Zac Robinson this offseason to be L.A.’s assistant quarterbacks coach. Robinson had been watching and grading every QB snap for PFF, and his knowledge of the position and the Rams’ offense impressed McVay" - 2019

"4. Conversely, the value of the data in those areas is proven in that nearly the entire NFL has subscribed to Stats LLC and/or Pro Football Focus, and some rely on smaller services, like Pro Scout Inc., which is run by 64-year-old former Utah coach Mike Giddings." - SI 2017

"One commonality? Most subscribe to services. Cincinnati-based Pro Football Focus now lists 27 teams as clients, and founder Neil Hornsby says, “I’d be surprised if we haven’t got 32 of 32 by next season, if not this season.” -SI 2017

"Owned by broadcaster and former NFL player Cris Collinsworth, PFF works with all NFL teams and more than 95% of the Power Five colleges." - 2022

"The Cris Collinsworth-led Pro Football Focus is a leading provider of advanced analytics in use by all 32 NFL teams, 130 FBS college programs and 42 FCS teams. - 2023 article

"The Cincinnati-based football analytics company, under celebrity owner Cris Collinsworth, counts every NFL team as a customer. It charges each of them $150,000 annually for its services, including its golden ticket: a proprietary, labor-intensive player-grading system." - 2024

 

[jrry32]

I'm not saying PFF is perfect, for me especially because they don't account for level of competition, but I am saying it's way better than me/average fans in analyzing player performance.

I don't think it will matter as those of you who are negative on PFF seem pretty dug in, but some stuff I found on the internet seems to say all nfl teams use PFF to some extent. If it's good enough for them . . . :

"Rams head coach Sean McVay, meanwhile, hired PFF senior analyst and former NFL QB Zac Robinson this offseason to be L.A.’s assistant quarterbacks coach. Robinson had been watching and grading every QB snap for PFF, and his knowledge of the position and the Rams’ offense impressed McVay" - 2019

"4. Conversely, the value of the data in those areas is proven in that nearly the entire NFL has subscribed to Stats LLC and/or Pro Football Focus, and some rely on smaller services, like Pro Scout Inc., which is run by 64-year-old former Utah coach Mike Giddings." - SI 2017

"One commonality? Most subscribe to services. Cincinnati-based Pro Football Focus now lists 27 teams as clients, and founder Neil Hornsby says, “I’d be surprised if we haven’t got 32 of 32 by next season, if not this season.” -SI 2017
"Owned by broadcaster and former NFL player Cris Collinsworth, PFF works with all NFL teams and more than 95% of the Power Five colleges." - 2022
"The Cris Collinsworth-led Pro Football Focus is a leading provider of advanced analytics in use by all 32 NFL teams, 130 FBS college programs and 42 FCS teams. - 2023 article

The NFL teams use PFF for their data. The grades are for fans.

 

[brucebruce]

You personify your screen name. This must be a satirical account.

 

[methomas50]

Nutshell version: its an indicator not a be all end all. Some times I like to use it to check and see if I missed or over looked something. I personally view it more positively than negatively. Form your own opinion though.

 

[bubbaramfan]

PFF blowing smoke

 

[20hrswk]

If you guys don't use PFF, what sites do you use when you want to see how players/teams are being graded/ranked?

I used to look at DVOA, etc at "footballoutsiders", but I can't seem to find that anywhere?

 

[TexasRam]

The NFL teams use PFF for their data. The grades are for fans.

Good point and I’m sure PFF data is one of many sources to analyze player.

To 20hrswk’s arguement that the data must be valueable to NFL teams because they pay for it:

As was already stated several teams have explicitly stated the data is often subjective due to the analysts lack of familiarity with the assignments for each player on each play and Unless the PFF analyst worked directly for the NFL team, they would have no possibility of knowing the assignment for every play or how to correctly grade each play.

 

[DzRams]

Good point and I’m sure PFF data is one of many sources to analyze player.

To 20hrswk’s arguement that the data must be valueable to NFL teams because they pay for it:

As was already stated several teams have explicitly stated the data is often subjective due to the analysts lack of familiarity with the assignments for each player on each play and Unless the PFF analyst worked directly for the NFL team, they would have no possibility of knowing the assignment for every play or how to correctly grade each play.

Depsite the data being subjective it must have some utility or no NFL team would pay for it.

Is it not ironic that the team that explicitly stated whatever you heard is still paying for data?

The fact that any NFL team, let alone all of the NFL teams, pay for data is conclusive proof that PFF is not worthless or blowing smoke.

 

[Merlin]

PFF Worthless. Armchair geeks who can't get laid.

I'm hearin geeks are cool now.

 

[jrry32]

Depsite the data being subjective it must have some utility or no NFL team would pay for it.

Is it not ironic that the team that explicitly stated whatever you heard is still paying for data?

The fact that any NFL team, let alone all of the NFL teams, pay for data is conclusive proof that PFF is not worthless or blowing smoke.

This thread is about PFF's grading of players. That's not what NFL teams are paying for. Again, they're paying for the data PFF collects (ex. how many out routes Cooper Kupp ran this year, how effective he was on those routes, and how that compared to other NFL WRs). The grades are for the fans.

 

[So Ram]

This thread is about PFF's grading of players. That's not what NFL teams are paying for. Again, they're paying for the data PFF collects (ex. how many out routes Cooper Kupp ran this year, how effective he was on those routes, and how that compared to other NFL WRs). The grades are for the fans.

So it can be used for both teams.Figuring out what works & tendencies for both offenses & defenses . Whatever advantage a team can get they will. NJ ow how that gets computed is another thing in a process.

 

[Ellard80]

I find PFF to be inconsistent.

Sometimes makes sense... other times looney tunes.

 

[dang]

Depsite the data being subjective it must have some utility or no NFL team would pay for it.

Is it not ironic that the team that explicitly stated whatever you heard is still paying for data?

The fact that any NFL team, let alone all of the NFL teams, pay for data is conclusive proof that PFF is not worthless or blowing smoke.

Ok. Full admission. You and 20hrswk work for PFF - right???

Seriously - I often look up players PFF ratings but that’s because I love stats. I prefer to use my own eyes for my primary assessment (as flawed as that might be) and PFF/ESPN stats, FFB stats/etc. as complimentary.

 

[Giles]

I think it's a bias, and very subjective grading system.

 

[Jorgeh0605]

Lets not make PFF grades be the only thing you attribute to PFF. PFF is a great resource that tracks tons of statistics that can be extremely useful.

PFF grades are an attempt to grade each player and is not infallible. It's actually a tough task for someone outside the team to take all the stats and performance of a player and standardize it to a grade you can compare to other players of the same position.

So the grades should be taken with a grain of salt, but PFF as a resource for statistics is very valuable.

 

[Soul Surfer]

PFF got this one right.