Tua's TBI

[oldnotdead]

I think this deserves it's own thread because it's about all football players. I'm happy to see the concern (belated) over CTE. But it needs to be more than talk.

I saw that injury. IMO Tua should medically retire. If he plays again this season it would be criminal medical malpractice IMO. I spent 2 years working in ER, recovery, and SICU (trauma unit), trained in field emergency med, and it was fucking scary to watch him, especially his hands. The doctors are right that was a classic sign of brain trauma (TBI). I've seen it before, from the concussive force of explosions. Tua would be well on his way to CTE if he continues to play and would be surprised if he doesn't have symptoms later in his life even if he never has a concussion again. Tua needs long term help now.

I saw how Jr Seau deteriorated after he retired. I used to see him at his restaurant which was one of my favorites, and in the surfing scene since I lived in Carlsbad. It was beyond sad. Tua could get a coaching internship and still have a good football life. IMO the media would be complicit in fraud if they gloss over his injury.

I truly hope the NFL pays close attention to Tua and his injury. Brain injuries are cumulative and TBI can have a good long term prognosis when caught and addressed early and the TBI doesn't continue. It takes YEARS to even come close to fully recovering from TBI which is exactly what Tua suffered. The NFL would be criminally remiss if they didn't dictate a medical retirement for Tua. Research by the University of Pennsylvania has shown that even a single TBI injury can lead to dementia later in life. His injury can heal over time but it's critical that he not suffer more injuries.

For god sake, Tua retire. The NFL isn't worth dying for.

I love the NFL but there is no denying the violence and the toll that violence takes. I hope the NFL codifies how much injury is acceptable and at what level they say enough is enough.

 

[Merlin]

Hmm. I think Tua's a big boy and capable of running his own life. If he wants to play and make money and roll the dice that's his call.

 

[12intheBox]

Hmm. I think Tua's a big boy and capable of running his own life. If he wants to play and make money and roll the dice that's his call.

I mostly agree with this - or at least I want to - but at some point your brain can be so damaged that you aren’t capable of running your own life.

Does the team or the league have any responsibility here? If his leg were broken but he wanted to play thru it, would that be different?

 

[MadGoat]

I mostly agree with this - or at least I want to - but at some point your brain can be so damaged that you aren’t capable of running your own life.

Does the team or the league have any responsibility here? If his leg were broken but he wanted to play thru it, would that be different?

Tua has the potential to sign a $150M + contract extension after next year if he develops into a top QB. No, the league doesn't have the right to take that from him if he clears through the required protocols. His own backup has taken similar hits (One delivered by a Rams player BTW) and is successfully continuing his career. They know the risks. They know the rewards. They can make their own choices.

 

[12intheBox]

Tua has the potential to sign a $150M + contract extension after next year if he develops into a top QB. No, the league doesn't have the right to take that from him if he clears through the required protocols. His own backup has taken similar hits (One delivered by a Rams player BTW) and is successfully continuing his career. They know the risks. They know the rewards. They can make their own choices.

The “required protocols” is the issue, isn’t it? If the league said the required protocol was to be able to raise your left hand - we would agree that that is inadequate, right?

I mean - I suppose if a doctor clears him then it should be his call … but I do worry that the whole “show must go on” mentality can turn bad.

 

[SteezyEndo]

I am Switzerland on this. I just know there is a lot of BS and politics behind it all. Dude does need to make a choice though, he is a grown ass man at the end of the day.

 

[rdlkgliders]

I am not here to make decisions for the NFL, Tua, The players association, or the medical teams. I will say the likelihood and probability of that happening 4 days after he was knocked silly on Sunday seem way too elevated for a league that has had recent discussions, lawsuits, and new protocols in place to help minimize and greatly reduce the chances of this happening. I have been around concussed athletes and it is clearly expressed you go to all lengths to avoid having a second occurrence on top of the first concussion. It seems that something went egregiously wrong prior to him suiting up on Thursday.

 

[tklongball]

The “required protocols” is the issue, isn’t it? If the league said the required protocol was to be able to raise your left hand - we would agree that that is inadequate, right?

I mean - I suppose if a doctor clears him then it should be his call … but I do worry that the whole “show must go on” mentality can turn bad.

But the protocol is that he has to be cleared by a Dr and the Independent Neurological Consultant. Here is the 5 step return to Participation Protocol after a concussion.

Good article on the whole thing at This Link

 

[12intheBox]

I don’t know - it doesn’t seem like that protocol is followed. I guess maybe we aren’t close enough to the action to know when the protocol should be triggered but didn’t Tua get to play the week before this after what looked like a clear concussion without the protocol being followed?

 

[OldSchool]

It is interesting how many neurological experts there are. And how many people were there to examine Tua with the independent doctor responsible the night of the two games.

Until the doctor that cleared him vs Buffalo comes out by all means please continue to speculate. But nobody but that doctor and the others that were there to examine him or during said examination come forward and speak or the review of the incident(s) are release it's all just guesses by internet experts. These incidents are usually best left to wait for more info. For now we have heard he was cleared vs Buffalo and had no concussion that's the only fact we know right now.

 

[tklongball]

I don’t know - it doesn’t seem like that protocol is followed. I guess maybe we aren’t close enough to the action to know when the protocol should be triggered but didn’t Tua get to play the week before this after what looked like a clear concussion without the protocol being followed?

What makes you think the protocol wasn't followed?

The bold part of your statement makes two huge assumptions. First that he had a concussion. Second that the protocol wasn't followed. Maybe someone did screw up last week, It is possible. But, that wouldn't be my assumption without some good bit of evidence for it. Certainly more than, "It looked like he had a concussion, on TV, but he played in the 2nd half.

Again, it isn't just the coach and Team Doctors making these evaluations. There are INDEPENDENT Neurological Consultants that also have a Go/No Go say.

Take a few min and read the info on the Link I posted earlier. The protocol is well thought out, and has many checkpoints and decision Points by lots of different people.

 

[OregonRamsFan]

I watched the game and saw Tua’s helmet smack the ground pretty hard. I saw his hands contort. I hope Tua retires. I really do. I think it is his best move. It’s not worth the risk for him to keep playing.

 

[Steve808]

I wish him well. His high school took the fun out high school football because they won the state title almost every year since the 1990's it seems. (St Louis). That school was a quarterback factory.

 

[oldnotdead]

The official view was that the concussion protocol wasn't followed because they "believed" it was a back issue.

When I got back from Nam I knew I had a problem. The official VA diagnosis was PTSD so I was prescribed a bunch of psychologists. I fought for 6 years that the diagnosis was wrong. I knew it was TBI and began my own treatment regime. Finally, I was allowed a board of 3 neurologists who took 1 hour to say that it was TBI.

I was not granted a disability because I was "healing". I know what I'm talking about. It took 10 years for me to have a clear head. Before the Navy I lived in Ocean Park and would bike from Santa Monica pier to Redondo down the beach path. After I got out I never rode a bike again, even with a helmet. That's why it was so heart breaking for me to watch Jr Seau deteriorate.

Regardless of his decision I wish Tua well. Oh BTW Tua is guaranteed $30.2M under his current contract. He would not be a pauper.

 

[kurtfaulk]

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I remember years ago when brain injuries became an issue the league had to enforce and players started attacking the knee area of players to avoid penalties. Tony Gonzalez was on some show and said please hit me in the head, leave my knees alone. It seems players still have the same view. Only concerned about injuries that affect their ability to earn money right now, not in the future some time.

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[BuffaloRam]

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I remember years ago when brain injuries became an issue the league had to enforce and players started attacking the knee area of players to avoid penalties. Tony Gonzalez was on some show and said please hit me in the head, leave my knees alone. It seems players still have the same view. Only concerned about injuries that affect their ability to earn money right now, not in the future some time.

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It’s only with the passage of time do you wish you were nicer to your body unfortunately

 

[Merlin]

It is interesting how many neurological experts there are. And how many people were there to examine Tua with the independent doctor responsible the night of the two games.

Until the doctor that cleared him vs Buffalo comes out by all means please continue to speculate. But nobody but that doctor and the others that were there to examine him or during said examination come forward and speak or the review of the incident(s) are release it's all just guesses by internet experts. These incidents are usually best left to wait for more info. For now we have heard he was cleared vs Buffalo and had no concussion that's the only fact we know right now.

Yeah this is the world we live in. Snap judgment and electronic herd stampedes.

I do suspect he was concussed. Not an expert, just what it looked like to me. But that said do we want a flag football league. Because this type of overreaction is how we get a flag football league.

 

[OldSchool]

Yeah this is the world we live in. Snap judgment and electronic herd stampedes.

I do suspect he was concussed. Not an expert, just what it looked like to me. But that said do we want a flag football league. Because this type of overreaction is how we get a flag football league.

It sure looked like he was but all we have to go on is the neutral doctor cleared him to come back in. I'm not much of a tin foil hat kind of guy so I'll believe the neutral doctor.

 

[OldSchool]

The official view was that the concussion protocol wasn't followed because they "believed" it was a back issue.

When I got back from Nam I knew I had a problem. The official VA diagnosis was PTSD so I was prescribed a bunch of psychologists. I fought for 6 years that the diagnosis was wrong. I knew it was TBI and began my own treatment regime. Finally, I was allowed a board of 3 neurologists who took 1 hour to say that it was TBI.

I was not granted a disability because I was "healing". I know what I'm talking about. It took 10 years for me to have a clear head. Before the Navy I lived in Ocean Park and would bike from Santa Monica pier to Redondo down the beach path. After I got out I never rode a bike again, even with a helmet. That's why it was so heart breaking for me to watch Jr Seau deteriorate.

Regardless of his decision I wish Tua well. Oh BTW Tua is guaranteed $30.2M under his current contract. He would not be a pauper.

Sorry but that's just completely false and goes against what the official response has been. Wait for an investigation before spreading this shit.

 

[XXXIVwin]

It sure looked like he was but all we have to go on is the neutral doctor cleared him to come back in. I'm not much of a tin foil hat kind of guy so I'll believe the neutral doctor.

I'm not a tin foil hat guy at all either. But I do think doctors disagree with each other all the time. And it sounds like several concussion experts disagree (based on the video of Tua after the hit in the Bills game) with the neutral doctor who allowed Tua back in the game. Also, the diagnosis of a "mild" concussion can be difficult, especially if a patient feels motivated to be untruthful about subjective symptoms (such as dizziness or blurred vision or "not feeling quite right", etc. )

I'm not taking a side on this debate until after I hear more info about the investigation. I'm just saying there might not be easy answers, even after we get more info. Concussion diagnosis can be tricky, and doctors can have conflicting opinions.