Tua's TBI

  • To unlock all of features of Rams On Demand please take a brief moment to register. Registering is not only quick and easy, it also allows you access to additional features such as live chat, private messaging, and a host of other apps exclusive to Rams On Demand.

XXXIVwin

Hall of Fame
Joined
Jun 1, 2015
Messages
4,955
And I'd argue that the "gross motor instability" is a sure sign as well....


Therefore, if it is indeed the case that Tua's stumbling around was caused by the blow to the head he experienced just seconds earlier, I'd argue that's pretty irrefutable proof he suffered a concussion.
Looks like the NFL is going to adopt a new policy that "gross motor instability" is an irrefutable sign of concussion and therefore will automatically prohibit a player from returning to the game.

Link:

 

Faceplant

Still celebrating Superbowl LVI
Rams On Demand Sponsor
2023 ROD Pick'em Champion
Joined
Aug 11, 2010
Messages
9,992
Ravens coach John Harbaugh made that point on Friday, as tactfully as he could.
“I couldn’t believe what I saw last Sunday,” Harbaugh said regarding Tua clearly wobbling and later returning to the game. “It was just something that was astonishing to see. I’ve been coaching for 40 years now, college in the NFL, almost 40, and I’ve never seen anything like it before. I couldn’t believe what I was seeing.”
The NFLPA couldn’t believe it, either. And the union saw enough to move on from the UNC who was involved in the situation, regardless of the investigation’s specific findings.
Not True. He and I BOTH saw it live with Case Keenum in Baltimore in 2016....


View: https://youtu.be/204GsqfRlKc
 

kurtfaulk

Rams On Demand Sponsor
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
Sep 7, 2011
Messages
16,602
Not True. He and I BOTH saw it live with Case Keenum in Baltimore in 2016....


View: https://youtu.be/204GsqfRlKc


I lost all respect for fisher when he left case out there.

But we'd seen it countless times before in the nfl. Players staggering when they got up and then playing on in the game. Harbaugh is just shitty because tua beat his arse and embarrassed his shit team.

.
 

dieterbrock

Rams On Demand Sponsor
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
Jan 3, 2013
Messages
24,052
Not True. He and I BOTH saw it live with Case Keenum in Baltimore in 2016....
Yup, and then there was that time when Russell Wilson walked in and out of the empty tent, and back on the field. I dont think Seattle/Pete Carrol ever took any heat for that one. Just more examples of the NFL turning its back on "improprieties" in the hopes that they dont get caught, and when they do everyone feigns high moral standards and "we have to be better" bullshit
 

12intheBox

Legend
Joined
Sep 12, 2013
Messages
10,146
Name
Wil Fay
Is there a difference between a stinger and a concussion? I remember coming out of a hit once and feeling like I’d just swallowed a nitrous balloon but I was “fine” 15 seconds letter - or at least I think I was.

I can’t imagine Cooper Kupp having to exit the super bowl in the last minute after that late hit.

There aren’t easy answers here. I believe in assumption of the risk and all but I also believe in an employers obligation to create as safe of a work environment as practicable. Doesn’t mean it will be “safe” but mitigation matters.
 

Merlin

Damn the torpedoes
Rams On Demand Sponsor
ROD Credit | 2023 TOP Member
Joined
May 8, 2014
Messages
39,703
When you have the power to stop self-destructive behavior and do nothing their blood is on your hands. The NFL knows what TBI and CTE are. CTE is a result of repeated TBI. The NFL knows this there is no doubt about it. At what point do you say "I'm sorry but you can't play anymore." Take their millions and drink beer on a hot beach with a hot babe.

The NFL should ensure all players forced into retirement are provided for in terms of lifetime healthcare and income. The NFLPA is complicit in this problem. What Tua experienced was not the average concussion. It was full blown TBI that was clear to anyone with experience watching the game. That is a concussion on steroids. That's why he needs to be shut down now. The only cure is to stop playing and exposing himself.

Someone needs to talk to him honestly in all seriousness about what he is facing and the long term consequences of additional trauma. Unfortunately from Tua's comments, no one is. I was lucky I had a neurologist who did that for me. I was going to make the military my career with a specialty in trauma care. I had just made E5 after 2.5 years so my career path looked good. But with a trauma hold on my record, it would stifle my continuation as I wouldn't be deployable. So I knew my then-current enlistment would be my last.

I'm 73 and I was 21 then. I've lived a good and very happy life. I've got good memories I can still recount. I've never regretted one day of walking away from my planned career path, and I didn't have $30M to live on either. The Navy was rightly not willing to extend me and one neurologist talking to me was the best thing that could have happened to me.
What you and the rest of us vets face with VA compensation has nothing to do with this topic. The military put us in dangerous environments and the government has all the resources it requires to back us when we punch out.

But the NFL is a business. It exists to make money. Requiring the NFL to be a fucking retirement home for former players is ridiculous. Once again this is the sentiment that will drive the league to flag football rules and games that feel like the Pro Bowl. That sentiment is destined to change the league into something that many of us will not be happy with.
 

oldnotdead

Legend
Joined
May 16, 2019
Messages
5,406
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #47
Ben Shpigel
By Ben Shpigel
July 5, 2022
Chronic traumatic encephalopathy, or C.T.E., has affected boxers since the 1920s, but it surged into the national consciousness in 2007, when The New York Times reported that Andre Waters sustained brain damage from playing football, which led to his depression and ultimate death by suicide.

The degenerative brain disease associated with repeated blows to the head has been found in the brains of more than 320 former N.F.L. players, Waters the third but whose death brought the condition into the mainstream. The group includes at least 24 players who died in their 20s and 30s, according to Dr. Ann McKee, a neuropathologist and the director of the C.T.E. Center at Boston University.
Junior Seau, 43, Waters, 44, and Dave Duerson, 50, were all found to have C.T.E. after their deaths by suicide, as were Jovan Belcher, 25, a linebacker for the Kansas City Chiefs who killed his girlfriend before shooting himself in 2012; Aaron Hernandez, 27, a former New England Patriots tight end who died by suicide after being convicted of a 2013 murder; and Phillip Adams, 32, an N.F.L. defensive back who shot and killed six people in April 2021 before dying by suicide.

Vincent Jackson, a longtime receiver with the San Diego Chargers and Tampa Bay Buccaneers who was found dead in February 2021, was determined to have had a mild form of C.T.E. Demaryius Thomas, a former receiver for the Denver Broncos, was diagnosed with it after his death in December 2021

What has been C.T.E.’s impact on the N.F.L.?​

The Hall of Fame center Mike Webster was the first N.F.L. player found to have had C.T.E., with the result published in a scientific journal three years after his death in 2002. More than 320 former players, including Ken Stabler and Frank Gifford, who have been posthumously diagnosed with C.T.E. Researchers at Boston University announced in a 2019 study that tackle football players doubled their risk of developing the worst forms of C.T.E. for each 5.3 years they played.

For many years, the N.F.L. denied any connection between long-term brain damage and blows to the head until confronted with overwhelming scientific evidence. After a class-action lawsuit brought by former players surfaced, the league agreed to a roughly $1 billion settlement

*******

I shortened the article by taking out a lot of the clinical stuff. But the bottom line is that the NFL knows they have a problem. It has cost them over a billion dollars to date. Burying their heads in the sand won't make it go away. Merlin makes the point that the NFL is a business. Well as a former business owner I know that they will never make the problem go away, but at some point, mitigation is required to protect themselves from continued litigation. The next step logically would be to put players on a TBI count and mandatory, minimum downtime for the first one and perhaps retirement after the second. What goes unsaid is that once you have suffered TBI you are more susceptible to another for a prolonged period of time. Your body can heal over time but the timeline is months or years not days or weeks.

Repeated TBI level hits are what causes CTE. Smaller concussive hits have not been shown as a causative agent to the development of CTE. Even one TBI level hit is enough to cause problems 13-20 years down the line. Nerve impairment symptoms are clear indicators Of TBI. Tua has exhibited two such hits in less than a week. This is the conversation with Tua, that must be made mandatory IMO. This is why some neurologists are advising Tua to retire. It is why I'm saying Tua could be well on his way to CTE. Another event such as these two could be catastrophic because once CTE begins there is no cure. The NFL knows this.

Smaller concussions have not definitively been ruled as a cause of CTE. But TBI level injuries have. A TBI level injury should be a season-ender with one year between injury and return to play. A second TBI injury should be a mandatory medical retirement. To do less would continue to expose the NFL to costly litigation and the negative publicity that goes with it.
 

SteezyEndo

The Immaculate Exception
Joined
Sep 16, 2012
Messages
7,528
Once again this is the sentiment that will drive the league to flag football rules and games that feel like the Pro Bowl.
That is how it will be unfortunately, but if it does end up being flag football, there would be no reason for players to be making millions. They can make as much as UFC fighters if that’s the case.
 

oldnotdead

Legend
Joined
May 16, 2019
Messages
5,406
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #49
You can make light of it if you want. But people who have never had TBI don't really understand the consequences of ignoring it. What good are millions of dollars if you can't live to enjoy it. Seau's life was a living hell after football because of CTE. Those of us in San Diego and Oceanside/Carlsbad in particular witnessed it.

All I'm saying is that guys like Tua should have it laid out for them. Their options and the consequences. If they want to continue with their self-destructive nature so be it. All I'm saying is that the NFL can get themselves off the hook by simply creating a redline.

The NFL knows there is always another superstar around the corner.
 

Faceplant

Still celebrating Superbowl LVI
Rams On Demand Sponsor
2023 ROD Pick'em Champion
Joined
Aug 11, 2010
Messages
9,992
I was at the game too.

And he fumbled on the next play IIRC
Also remember AD breaking Forsett's arm in that game. Also remember it was windy and cold that day. So many Tucker jerseys it wss ridiculous. He ended up winning it for them too....
 

Tano

Legend
Joined
Jun 11, 2017
Messages
10,052
Also remember AD breaking Forsett's arm in that game. Also remember it was windy and cold that day. So many Tucker jerseys it wss ridiculous. He ended up winning it for them too....
Coldest 40 degree day I have ever experienced
 

Mister Sin

Formally Known as Juggs
Rams On Demand Sponsor
Joined
Apr 11, 2013
Messages
5,378
Name
Sin
I think this deserves it's own thread because it's about all football players. I'm happy to see the concern (belated) over CTE. But it needs to be more than talk.

I saw that injury. IMO Tua should medically retire. If he plays again this season it would be criminal medical malpractice IMO. I spent 2 years working in ER, recovery, and SICU (trauma unit), trained in field emergency med, and it was fucking scary to watch him, especially his hands. The doctors are right that was a classic sign of brain trauma (TBI). I've seen it before, from the concussive force of explosions. Tua would be well on his way to CTE if he continues to play and would be surprised if he doesn't have symptoms later in his life even if he never has a concussion again. Tua needs long term help now.

I saw how Jr Seau deteriorated after he retired. I used to see him at his restaurant which was one of my favorites, and in the surfing scene since I lived in Carlsbad. It was beyond sad. Tua could get a coaching internship and still have a good football life. IMO the media would be complicit in fraud if they gloss over his injury.

I truly hope the NFL pays close attention to Tua and his injury. Brain injuries are cumulative and TBI can have a good long term prognosis when caught and addressed early and the TBI doesn't continue. It takes YEARS to even come close to fully recovering from TBI which is exactly what Tua suffered. The NFL would be criminally remiss if they didn't dictate a medical retirement for Tua. Research by the University of Pennsylvania has shown that even a single TBI injury can lead to dementia later in life. His injury can heal over time but it's critical that he not suffer more injuries.

For god sake, Tua retire. The NFL isn't worth dying for.

I love the NFL but there is no denying the violence and the toll that violence takes. I hope the NFL codifies how much injury is acceptable and at what level they say enough is enough.
I was just telling one of my employees this Friday. He needs to retire. He is too early in his career to have this level of injury. He can sue the Dolphins and live well for the remainder of his days.

It disgusted me the week before, watching him stumble around and still playing.
 

Jacobarch

Legend
Joined
Mar 28, 2016
Messages
5,325
Name
Jake
This is part of the bigger problem with society today. We all think we have a voice in what another person chooses to do with their own body. it's weird.
 

Classic Rams

Hall of Fame
Joined
Jan 15, 2016
Messages
3,352
Is there a difference between a stinger and a concussion?
Yeah, stinger isn't a hit in the head or a brain injury. Pretty much a hit in another part of the body where the bruised nerve lets out a temporary sting. Renders the player unable to move the area or body part normally for several seconds. For example Jack Younglbood suffered a shoulder stinger once when he tackled Calvin Hill in 1981.