Trust you're own eyes...

[NJRamsFan]

NJ- some guys are lazy and vague- some guys do their homework- and usually you can tell. Mayock does his homework. He knows what he is looking for and has a good knowlege of the game because of his background. I would take his advice over a Kiper/McShay anyday. But even those guys know their stuff and do extensive background work that you or I cant do on all players. They have WAY more access and time to do analysis than anyone on here- so just because we get one here or there on them- over a whole draft, they will kill us- despite what some on here think.

They do have way more access and time to do analysis which is why the should be WAY better and tell us things we wouldn't know otherwise. The issue with them is they have cornered the market on Mock Drafts/Analysis. They were there since the NFL offseason really started to take off a few years back and they were loud. Sure they have their moments but who wouldn't.

Mel Kiper and Mike Mayock amongst others are their own brands and people tend to listen just because they are saying it rather than actually seeing if what they are saying has any validity. which i think is the point of the OP...dont just trust these guys because they are on TV and so called experts because in reality they are not very good at what they do. Theres not many jobs in the world you can fail at WAY more than you succeed and still have such strong job security. And thats what I'm getting at..theres no accountability in their profession, when they are wrong (i.e Gabbert) no one cares, but when they are right the receive credit. They are the Face of the draft, nothing more, nothing less

 

[tbux]

Both. Although I agree 100% with your assessment that it is nearly impossible to predict what guys like that are going to do...thats my issue with the term expert. In reality their mocks aren't very good.

To the player analysis all I'm saying is I bet if you go around and put together a comprehensive scouting report/analysis for Watkins/Robinson/Matthews/Clowney just based on ROD posts/debates...it would be eerily similar to what these experts are paid to come up with. And most of our opinions are coming from watching those guys a couple times live and youtube videos...

and some of those same posters are using Mayocks analysis as a basis for their opinion. You cant be as good using a couple games and youtube highlites as someone who understands football better and who watches nearly every snap. When you do, it is mostly luck. There are some good posters who watch certain teams and players etc who can probably have a good scouting on a few players- but Mayock is scouting hundreds, so for a full draft, he will kill anyone on here. I know certain teams and players and can talk intelligently on some- but no way am I naive enough to think I can outscout any of those guys who have 100 times more info and time than I do.

 

[iced]

Both. Although I agree 100% with your assessment that it is nearly impossible to predict what guys like that are going to do...thats my issue with the term expert. In reality their mocks aren't very good.

To the player analysis all I'm saying is I bet if you go around and put together a comprehensive scouting report/analysis for Watkins/Robinson/Matthews/Clowney just based on ROD posts/debates...it would be eerily similar to what these experts are paid to come up with. And most of our opinions are coming from watching those guys a couple times live and youtube videos...

yea but a lot of people are just repeating what those guys are saying...and with all due respect to a lot of the guys here, not by any means are they experts (and I think they'd be the first to tell you that).

I can't blame them for not getting the mocks right - i mean think of the different posts/debates you're discussing...you poll 32 opinions on all those players and i guarantee you'll get atleast 6 different orders on who's ranked where,who's better,etc.

now trying polling the whole board for the first round, or 32 people... you'll get some in common, but you can't factor in variables like trading and crazy/incompetent GM's/owners (like Jerry Jones and traving travis frederick last year in the first)

 

[Alan]

max with more Boylhart:
Don't send one to Boylhart either...

Great post max. I love his evaluation of Pryor.

Who does he have us taking at #2 and #13?

 

[tbux]

They do have way more access and time to do analysis which is why the should be WAY better and tell us things we wouldn't know otherwise. The issue with them is they have cornered the market on Mock Drafts/Analysis. They were there since the NFL offseason really started to take off a few years back and they were loud. Sure they have their moments but who wouldn't.

Mel Kiper and Mike Mayock amongst others are their own brands and people tend to listen just because they are saying it rather than actually seeing if what they are saying has any validity. which i think is the point of the OP...dont just trust these guys because they are on TV and so called experts because in reality they are not very good at what they do. Theres not many jobs in the world you can fail at WAY more than you succeed and still have such strong job security. And thats what I'm getting at..theres no accountability in their profession, when they are wrong (i.e Gabbert) no one cares, but when they are right the receive credit. They are the Face of the draft, nothing more, nothing less

They dont get more wrong than right- thats a stretch. I can tell when someone is giving me bs and when someone has done their homework. These guys like Mayock are good- not because they are on tv- because they do their work. When I watch "experts" talk about our team, I can tell who actually studied our team and know the ins and outs, and those who do little homework and say things many of us would scoff at. I can also tell the "experts' on the draft who do their homework, and those who read others work and pass it off as their own. It is evident when people know what they are talking about- Mayock is one of those guys imo.

 

[Tron]

Great post max. I love his evaluation of Pryor.

Looks like yet another gets crossed off the list for a fruitcake!! This place is becoming a grave yard with so many now dead to me!!!!

 

[NJRamsFan]

They dont get more wrong than right- thats a stretch. I can tell when someone is giving me bs and when someone has done their homework. These guys like Mayock are good- not because they are on tv- because they do their work. When I watch "experts" talk about our team, I can tell who actually studied our team and know the ins and outs, and those who do little homework and say things many of us would scoff at. I can also tell the "experts' on the draft who do their homework, and those who read others work and pass it off as their own. It is evident when people know what they are talking about- Mayock is one of those guys imo.

Its not a stretch...they get WAYYYYY more wrong than they do right...its really not even close

 

[tbux]

Its not a stretch...they get WAYYYYY more wrong than they do right...its really not even close

Well that depends on what we are talking about. If its what a player will do at the next level- I disagree, if its what teams will pick- you may be right- but who could possibly get those right? When they do their player rankings- I think they do a pretty solid job- What are you expectation for these guys? Mine is simply educating me on these players I dont have chance to see myself. Strengths and weaknesses, etc. I think they do a solid job with it.

 

[Mojo Ram]

Draft experts are like the weatherman on tv.

 

[NJRamsFan]

Well that depends on what we are talking about. If its what a player will do at the next level- I disagree, if its what teams will pick- you may be right- but who could possibly get those right? When they do their player rankings- I think they do a pretty solid job- What are you expectation for these guys? Mine is simply educating me on these players I dont have chance to see myself. Strengths and weaknesses, etc. I think they do a solid job with it.

Im talking, as mentioned above, a combination of mock drafts & player analysis (essentially their job description). And what I am telling you is that a large majority of things they either get on tv and say or publish are inaccurate.

You say how could they possibly get those right but isn't that what experts do? do things we couldn't possibly do ourselves thats why you bring in an expert in the first place. If they were meant to be nothing more than your expectation of them ( educating you on players etc) why not just let the ESPN anchors do it? instead they have special segments and bring in their "draft experts", when in reality their experts have a higher failure rate than success

 

[max]

Great post max. I love his evaluation of Pryor.

Who does he have us taking at #2 and #13?

Matthews and Mosley

 

[tbux]

Im talking, as mentioned above, a combination of mock drafts & player analysis (essentially their job description). And what I am telling you is that a large majority of things they either get on tv and say or publish are inaccurate.

You say how could they possibly get those right but isn't that what experts do? do things we couldn't possibly do ourselves thats why you bring in an expert in the first place. If they were meant to be nothing more than your expectation of them ( educating you on players etc) why not just let the ESPN anchors do it? instead they have special segments and bring in their "draft experts", when in reality their experts have a higher failure rate than success

Because anchors dont do scouting of players and have no idea. All they can do is give their opinions on players, what they think team X will do and what they think they should do, and thats it.Mock drafts are just for fun- because NOBODY can get them right, because they dont know what teams value more and what direction they will go- they are guesses- surely better guesses than us- but still guesses. They determine team needs, and use their scouting homework to try and figure out who teams will take, but just no way to get them al right- no chance.

as far as how they do on players analysis, that is where they earn their money, and the good ones like Mayock are excellent and get many right as far as how thier game will translate. They are experts because they have the background and put in the time to review each players tape etc. They are essentially network scouts- and there are surely better ones than others. We can agree to disagree- I think Mayock does a really good job.

 

[RamFan503]

Do they do more homework than the hardcore fan? Generally and probably. But IMO - they are paid entertainers that get paid more for how they present their views more so than being right. They blow a lot of smoke and know who is likely at or near the top of most lists but often times they fall in love with players that I have watched quite a bit and I am left to wonder WTH.

 

[iced]

just some food for thought.. look at mayock's top 20, then look at how many players went in the top 20 or around where they were projected to go (where players actually go is always gonna vary by team needs)

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/0ap1...2013-nfl-draft-mike-mayocks-top-100-prospects

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_NFL_Draft

outside eddie lacy, that was the only player who didn't go in the first (yet we saw the impact he made)

Shariff Floyd was the one that fell the most (forget why), but everyone else is reasonably close to where they are ranked

 

[rhinobean]

I remember when Gabbert came out in 2011. I didn't like him at all. Watched him play at Missouri and he looked so timid in the pocket. But, there were all those draft guru's out there telling me he's a franchise guy.

Here's Mayock...
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/20...aine-gabbert-pro-day/index.html#ixzz2wEeZC9nM



So all you guys remember, trust your own eyes, these guru's are not as good as the NFL GMs and scouts, and those guys get plenty wrong.

Mayock is ok, I guess, but he is nowhere near as good as he is loud. He's better than Kiper, but he's a far cry from Joel Buchsbaum. JB was the only guy who if I disagreed with I thought I was wrong.

This year, the guy that Mayock has as his #1 Safety is Pryor. And I don't like him at all. We shall see.

I agree with you on Gabbert and I'm a Mizzou fan. I believe the Rams may go with who's on the team and might add a safety later. Rather get Dennard in the first if possible!

 

[Alan]

max coming up with the goods:
Matthews and Mosley

Thanks max.

Wow! Mosley? Did he say why we'd pick an ILB?

 

[rhinobean]

Thanks max.

Wow! Mosley? Did he say why we'd pick an ILB?

Bet it's because they need to groom one for backup to JL. Makes sense to me!

 

[Alan]

After just signing him long term??????

 

[tbux]

doubtful Mosely is their guy. Betting CB or S there.

 

[brokeu91]

I never understood the Gabbert stuff...and I'm a Mizzou fan. During his time at Missouri I didn't like him. I saw bust the whole way.

I don't pretend to be some talent guru...but there is usually a player or two that I watch and I just don't see the accolades and I think they will bust...I find myself right more than wrong in that respect.

...only if I had a better track record for the guys I thought were going to be studs, then I might be doing something else for a living.

I felt the same way. Gabbert had a great arm but terrible timing and below average accuracy. If you could have put Chase Daniel's head on Gabbert's body you would have had the perfect QB.