Thoughts on Fisher

[Tailback]

Not gonna touch the Martz debate, but I'll bring up a criticism of Fisher I saw on another Rams forum years ago. I don't remember which forum, or the original poster, but he said Fisher can't develop wide receivers. The guy had a lot of info that supported his premise. Totally anecdotal on my part since I don't have the evidence, but it is relative.

Same guy IIRC also posted a positive about Fisher....Fisher can sniff out Dline talent like nobodies business.

So, since Fisher has been head coach, what has he done? Built a freakishly scary defensive line, possibly the best in the NFL. At the same time, the offense has been anemic to say the least, and the wide receivers as a unit have struggled to breakout.

 

[MrMotes]

Not gonna touch the Martz debate, but I'll bring up a criticism of Fisher I saw on another Rams forum years ago. I don't remember which forum, or the original poster, but he said Fisher can't develop wide receivers. The guy had a lot of info that supported his premise. Totally anecdotal on my part since I don't have the evidence, but it is relative.

Same guy IIRC also posted a positive about Fisher....Fisher can sniff out Dline talent like nobodies business.

So, since Fisher has been head coach, what has he done? Built a freakishly scary defensive line, possibly the best in the NFL. At the same time, the offense has been anemic to say the least, and the wide receivers as a unit have struggled to breakout.

That's the book on Fisher: often great with defense, rarely good with offense.

This defense has the real makings of being absolutely lights out. If they are, we're gonna be good.

The offense? Probably gonna be bad again, but who knows, gonna find out soon...

 

[dieterbrock]

Not gonna touch the Martz debate, but I'll bring up a criticism of Fisher I saw on another Rams forum years ago. I don't remember which forum, or the original poster, but he said Fisher can't develop wide receivers. The guy had a lot of info that supported his premise. Totally anecdotal on my part since I don't have the evidence, but it is relative.
.

Well he sure developed Drew Bennett, then let some other team sign him for big FA dollars

 

[MrMotes]

Well he sure developed Drew Bennett, then let some other team sign him for big FA dollars

Bennett, Klop, Byrd, redzone problems solved, done and done...

 

[Ram65]

I'm guessing we'll know very quickly if Fisher can get the intensity level up. The first game is critical... if they are not fired up and play well, we'll continue to wonder.


Got that one right!!

Great point

I dont like terms like "make or break" year, but what has held back Fisher over the last 2 seasons is not an excuse this year. Fish has 4 QB in camp competing for 3 positions. Even with Foles being the defacto starter, his success or lack thereof is on the coaching staff.
Cant see how this team doesnt win at least 9 games this year and all this stuff is moot.

I guess the last two years were early let downs with the Bradford injuries. It has become almost like I except losing since the 8-8 Linehan season. How many different ways have the Rams found a way to lost over those years? Too many! Now it's time to find ways to win and Fisher has to lead the way. Jeez 9-7 sounds great. How about 10-6 or even 11-5? Rams winning time is over due? Go Rams!!!!

 

[Rmfnlt]

I guess the last two years were early let downs with the Bradford injuries. It has become almost like I except losing since the 8-8 Linehan season. How many different ways have the Rams found a way to lost over those years? Too many! Now it's time to find ways to win and Fisher has to lead the way. Jeez 9-7 sounds great. How about 10-6 or even 11-5? Rams winning time is over due? Go Rams!!!!

Yeah... I think it's going to take some very bad set of events in order for many fans to not want Fisher gone if they don't get above .500.

I just think playoffs ought to be very doable!

 

[RamFan503]

Well he sure developed Drew Bennett, then let some other team sign him for big FA dollars

I was thinking the same thing.

 

[Stranger]

but the claims he had more input as OC than he did as HC is humorous

where is that claimed? I missed it.

Zigmunt didn't expand his role to include GM until Martz was gone

Just to be clear, from the article I quoted in my earlier post...
"After the Rams won the Super Bowl in January 2000, Dick Vermeil suddenly retired which left the Rams in a lurch.They needed to restructure the organization and in the restructure Jay Zygmunt was named President of Football Operations.Also, as we all know, Mike Martz was named Head Coach and Charlie Armey was named General Manager.Martz still had the final call on all personnel decisions, but needed both Armey and Zygmunt’s approval."

 

[Merlin]

That's the book on Fisher: often great with defense, rarely good with offense.

This defense has the real makings of being absolutely lights out. If they are, we're gonna be good.

The offense? Probably gonna be bad again, but who knows, gonna find out soon...

I think Head Coaches are just like players in many ways... Some get better as they learn from their mistakes, some don't.

With Fish, he has learned a great deal in his time as a HC and has a lot of the duties down but his primary problem has been his OC hires. His coaching tree has one good OC in it: Dinger. The dude just doesn't have a good feel for offensive coordinators, there is no doubt about it in my mind. But here's the thing, I think he is trying to improve and get it right.

He really went out of his comfort zone hiring Cigs in the first place, with no prior association, for QB coach. Cigs wasn't a Coryell background guy either, with roots in WCO even if he did use the Coryell terminology in his OC stops in college. Then he hired Weinke to replace Cigs after promoting him, another move that was completely outside the box for him. He chased Gase, as well as reached out to some of the brighter minds in the league in his search this offseason. And of course last but not least he found a way to add Garcia, who is another quality addition to this staff.

Martz I look at the same way. He had his issues on the personnel side, particularly when he banged the table for guys like Canidate and got burned. He had to learn how important a defense was right out the gate in his first season. Then he learned how OL is important too when his offense couldn't run the ball or protect the QB. I actually love Mike Martz and would have killed to see him be Fish's OC, but you know I'm not gonna overlook his warts. If he was hired by a strong GM, I agree with Stranger the dude could win in this league, because his offense would be smart and capitalize on defensive tendencies as well as find good matchups for a full 60.

Kind of like what Fish continues to look for for the Rams in Cigs. So hopefully Cigs is the real deal man. If he is enjoy it now, because he'll be raided quickly for a head coaching job... Offensive minds don't last long as OC if they're good, they get promoted.

 

[Selassie I]

I know this for sure.

Fisher is the kind of coach that I would love to play for.

We are very fortunate to have him running the show.

 

[So Ram]

Great article RamFreak. One of three points I think that will make us better this year.

1. Cignetti is a custom OC for Fisher and I really believe Schotty hurt our offense last year more than he helped ( not really regressed but stayed the same which in the NFL it is the same as regressing).

2. We actually have damn decent talent on the O-Line for once. As long as the C position holds up I really see us getting somewhere with the great talent we have now in the trenches.

3. Foles and Mannion. Between them we have a steady and talented QB pairing that won't throw away a game and might actually have the talent to win a game for us instead of just being a game manager or throwing away a game.

These reflect on Fisher as an overall coach and he inherited the worst team in NFL history with a NFL history worst roster. 3 full years to restock us, I think we are ready to rock and roll this year!

1. I agree & will add to it Weinke & Jeff Garcia really add to an upbeat offensive unit. This guys are all hungry.
2.I don't think you can put everything on the center position.the truth is The Rams have added competition there,which makes a 3 players gave to earn there spot.---In the past you give the player the job because they over paid for the position,& have to save face.Brown & Wells both ended there tenure with The Rams as BUST !!

3. I think your off as who is going to be the back up QB.I could be wrong,but from my view I see Manion as the #3 QB with Kennan beating out Davis ??

--Fisher knows his coaching staff has to be better coming out if Halftime.I'm ok with last year,because Todd Gurley will be a special player.--Plus I have a little wager on the Rams over 8 wins.

 

[V3]

I know this for sure.

Fisher is the kind of coach that I would love to play for.

We are very fortunate to have him running the show.

I would LOVE to play for my grandfather as HC, too, but that doesn't mean he'd be good at it.

Fisher is what his record says he is.

 

[Selassie I]

I would LOVE to play for my grandfather as HC, too, but that doesn't mean he'd be good at it.

Fisher is what his record says he is.

I don't know your Grandfather... but when players really love giving it their all for their coach... would run their heads through a brick wall for him... the HIGHEST results are usually reached by the players who love playing for him. I'll take that every time please. Your Grandpa may get more out of you than you think.

There's way more to records than coaching.

Players win championships. Coaches help them... but the players will always be the difference.

Give me a coach that gets the most out of his players.

 

[jrry32]

Umm, Martz played a large part in creating that SB Winning team that you reference.

Yes, he did. As the OC. And I've explained multiple times now why that is different than being the head honcho.

The defense he inherited was absolutely awful.
The defense he went to the bowl with didn't even slightly resemble the players he had the year before. From coaching to the players. I don't see how the disparity in records can just be overlooked. Can't say that I'll ever really agree with you on this.

The defense that ranked top 5 in 1999 and helped the Rams win a Super Bowl?

 

[Stranger]

I don't know your Grandfather... but when players really love giving it their all for their coach... would run their heads through a brick wall for him... the HIGHEST results are usually reached by the players who love playing for him. I'll take that every time please. Your Grandpa may get more out of you than you think.

There's way more to records than coaching.

Players win championships. Coaches help them... but the players will always be the difference.

Give me a coach that gets the most out of his players.

While I agree with your assessment of Fisher, I think those that playeed under Martz really loved playing for him as well.

Yes, he did. As the OC. And I've explained multiple times now why that is different than being the head honcho.

You'll have to refresh my memory, but did you also included the changes in the FO as part of this explanation?

"After the Rams won the Super Bowl in January 2000, Dick Vermeil suddenly retired which left the Rams in a lurch.They needed to restructure the organization and in the restructure Jay Zygmunt was named President of Football Operations.Also, as we all know, Mike Martz was named Head Coach and Charlie Armey was named General Manager.Martz still had the final call on all personnel decisions, but needed both Armey and Zygmunt’s approval."

 

[blue4]

Yes, he did. As the OC. And I've explained multiple times now why that is different than being the head honcho.



The defense that ranked top 5 in 1999 and helped the Rams win a Super Bowl?

What did they rank in 2000 when he took over? That huge fall gets blamed all on the head coach? I must be the only one here who remembers watching the defense that year because they were absolutely pathetic. They looked old and probably were one of the slowest units I've ever seen.

 

[RamWoodie]

I'm kinda not with any of this because of one thing...I*N*J*U*R*I*E*S!!!

Coaches are like QB's...they get too much credit when they win and too much blame when they lose.

Sufficient for me is the fact that even with injuries Fisher has been able to get this team to still play well...BOTTOM LINE!!!

 

[jrry32]

What did they rank in 2000 when he took over? That huge fall gets blamed all on the head coach? I must be the only one here who remembers watching the defense that year because they were absolutely pathetic. They looked old and probably were one of the slowest units I've ever seen.

Where did they rank AFTER he became HC? I told you where they ranked when he inherited the team. Is it all his fault? No. But he didn't inherit an "absolutely awful defense."

He inherited a defense that came with Grant Wistrom, Kevin Carter, London Fletcher, Leonard Little, Dre Bly, Dexter McCleon, Todd Lyght, etc.

It wasn't an atrocious unit.

 

[OC--LeftCoast]

That huge fall gets blamed all on the head coach?

Yes, that's what happens when you "gas" your defense (my opinion of course)

 

[Alan]

blue4 thinking he's alone:
What did they rank in 2000 when he took over? That huge fall gets blamed all on the head coach? I must be the only one here who remembers watching the defense that year because they were absolutely pathetic. They looked old and probably were one of the slowest units I've ever seen.

I remember that well blue. We were in shoot outs almost every game. It was great because I love those kind of games. Especially when we win. Our defense sucked big time. It seemed like everyone lost a step at the same time.