SteezyEndo
The Immaculate Exception
Complicated thesis. Sometimes I feel like "opinions" get down to the brass tacks of how they feel. Not necessarily the way it "will" be. Its more of a objective scenario. Lets see what happens.
The Forgotten Man: Why WR Marquez North is a Ram to keep an eye on this summer
- Thread starter JKBOGEN
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So is there a difference between Big Vs Explosive? I googled and couldn't find a difference 20 or 25 yard pass plays and 10 yard runs for both terms.
Niles Paul 2016 2 catches 27 yards
Derrick Carrier 2016 2 catches 10 yards
This is all about what McVay wants more in a WR better routes and hands vs better speed WRs?
Took the Skins a couple of years to develop longer passing plays. Rams had a higher percentage of explosive plays in 2015. Having an explosive running back like Todd Gurely can add to explosive plays too. That can give a little leeway to give a young QB as Goff a more reliable route runner with good hands WR like Spruce.
https://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/team-big-play-statistics/2015/
Good grief.
You keep saying that my arguments rely upon cherry picking when you've ignored my point, brought in and argued your own criteria (talk about a strawman), cherry picking all the way from your very first response. If you would at least simply open your eyes and take note that I'm talking about players making the team and NOT YOUR CRITERIA then we might get somewhere.
Oh well. Ross the 7th WR? Throughout their transactions, the Redskins maintained only 6 WRs on the roster last year. Ross was one of them. He made the opening day roster (key point) and stayed on the team until the final two games. My opinion? He may have been used more if Jackson went down to maintain that speed element on the field. Jackson didn't, thus he wasn't used as much and so the "special teamer" was only active 5 of 14 games. But, he still made the team for goodness sakes which goes back to my point. Not yours. Mine.
I know what Sanu and Hardy ran at the combine which is why I mentioned my view of the players speed before even mentioning their Pro Day 40 times. 40 times that I do not completely discount as you seem to have. But, then again I understand that while Pro Days can sometimes be more favorable for players (even though Josh Reynolds seemed to run slower for some reason), there have also been factors that have affected combine times over the years, too.
And yes, Even though he didn't get a lot of receptions, I consider Marquez a WR. A WR who plays special teams. Sorry, but again I understand that just because a player doesn't get the ball thrown to him, it doesn't mean he wasn't on the field. Besides, Hekker didn't pass for the 3 receptions Marquez got (remember a drop or two), nor did the Redskins punter pass for the 9 receptions Harris and Ross got while they were not contributing as you say.
Back to the TEs. Paul's and Carrier made the team and played. Just because they didn't have the criteria added production you require doesn't mean that they don't exist. No one ever said all of these guys contributed at the same level, but that they were on the roster. But, I get it. Apparently, if you don't care about someone, then neither should I care I guess. But, sorry that's not how things work.
On a side note, it's interesting how speed seems to be a consideration for so many of the Redskins bottom of the roster types you say don't matter.
As to the offense, I never said that LaFleur was running the offense in Atlanta. And we know McVay's role in Washington. Talk about straw. I merely pointed out that while McVay is running the show, it makes little sense or would be scary to believe that other offense staff didn't have input in what we will see in 2017. Quite frankly, we should all be disappointed if he just copied a Redskins playbook on the way out and handed it to his Rams staff and players. But, feel free to move on from the sub-argument you started.
You've met your burden to prove that you could argue your criteria against my statement and ignore mine. You could have simply accepted that my statement is for my criteria and not yours and simply moved on. But, you didn't and here we are.
BTW, contrary to your belief, I haven't gotten angry throughout this whole exchange. This has been kinda fun as I've been chuckling throughout the whole thing.
Next time try to stick to the point being made without changing the goalposts with your criteria of how things should be discussed or considered.
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Ricky Proehl made some big plays for the Rams in the past. But, how many were explosive where the QB simply got the ball into his hands and he made something happen. That's what I'm talking about.
I think and hope that McVay wants better routes, hands, and speed. But, given his options, I'm guessing that the staff will settle upon the best mix they can at WR.
SteezyEndo
The Immaculate Exception
Running better routes and hands were the two criteria mention and then you added explosive plays.
Not many teams get explosive plays from the 6th WR spot.
I want to connect the dots to how we got to comparing speed of the Redskins WR/TE to Rams WR/TE, explosive plays and Nelson Spruce. Not many teams get explosive plays from the 6th WR spot. The Rams don't have a lot of speed at the back end of the roster at WR. Shakeir Ryan seems like the only speed WR at the back end of the roster. He seems more like a developmental replacement for Tavon Austin. It will still get down to Cooper vs Spruce for the 6th WR spot.
Not many teams get explosive plays from the 6th WR spot.
I want to connect the dots to how we got to comparing speed of the Redskins WR/TE to Rams WR/TE, explosive plays and Nelson Spruce. Not many teams get explosive plays from the 6th WR spot. The Rams don't have a lot of speed at the back end of the roster at WR. Shakeir Ryan seems like the only speed WR at the back end of the roster. He seems more like a developmental replacement for Tavon Austin. It will still get down to Cooper vs Spruce for the 6th WR spot.
LOL Reynolds isn't going to be on the PS over somebody McVay didn't select sorry isn't happening plus as FLV said he'd have to clear waivers and then want to resign with us for next to nothing.
@ Ram65,
Actually, my entry into the thread came after reading bubbaramfan's posts about the reason he felt that Spruce would make the team (see his 1st post) touting his routes and hands (2nd post). My only point was that those weren't the only criteria to consider.
I believe that some of the rest of the disconnect comes from my unwillingness to join the masses in pigeonholing Spruce to the 6th WR spot even prior to training camp and pre-season games where depth charts can change. For all we know, the kid could even be the 3rd, 4th, or 5th WR. Or he could be the 6th WR. Or off the team altogether. I guess we all have our hopes, preferences, expectations and the like, but no one really knows.
In fact, despite our praises and expectations (some unrealistic) of the guys (mostly unproven) on the current roster and belief that due to this overrating of talent that somehow the final cuts are sure to be tough, I can't ignore that there may be a WR on the final roster who isn't even in camp yet. Even last year, the Falcons claimed Taylor Gabriel off waivers after the final cuts.
Anyway, I've said recently and for ages that the 6th WR spot really hinges on special teams. However, I can see a scenario where, if after all the dust has settled and the team believed that their best WRs are of similar skill sets and/or abilities, that they might consider someone who has a gift the others either do not have or is in very limited supply as that 6th WR. And again, I heard LaFleur talk explosion plays/playmakers which led me to consider this line of thought.
Actually, my entry into the thread came after reading bubbaramfan's posts about the reason he felt that Spruce would make the team (see his 1st post) touting his routes and hands (2nd post). My only point was that those weren't the only criteria to consider.
I believe that some of the rest of the disconnect comes from my unwillingness to join the masses in pigeonholing Spruce to the 6th WR spot even prior to training camp and pre-season games where depth charts can change. For all we know, the kid could even be the 3rd, 4th, or 5th WR. Or he could be the 6th WR. Or off the team altogether. I guess we all have our hopes, preferences, expectations and the like, but no one really knows.
In fact, despite our praises and expectations (some unrealistic) of the guys (mostly unproven) on the current roster and belief that due to this overrating of talent that somehow the final cuts are sure to be tough, I can't ignore that there may be a WR on the final roster who isn't even in camp yet. Even last year, the Falcons claimed Taylor Gabriel off waivers after the final cuts.
Anyway, I've said recently and for ages that the 6th WR spot really hinges on special teams. However, I can see a scenario where, if after all the dust has settled and the team believed that their best WRs are of similar skill sets and/or abilities, that they might consider someone who has a gift the others either do not have or is in very limited supply as that 6th WR. And again, I heard LaFleur talk explosion plays/playmakers which led me to consider this line of thought.
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Well, no team can draft based on too many assumptions (I won't list the things that could go wrong because I don't want to put it out there).
We drafted two WRs because we need more production from the position.
I would be shocked if all of the existing WR guys prior to Kupp and Reynolds so stepped up that neither made the team.
I would be less shocked if Kupp made it and Reynolds didn't. Why? Math.
Kupp is ready to be a starter today. Reynolds still needs some development.
So we have Austin, Woods, and Kupp. That leaves at most 3 slots left. Let's add Thomas because he's really catching everyone's eye and making plays even as our D is really showing well.
That makes Austin, Woods, Kupp, and Thomas.
My only point is that it's not out of the realm of possibility with other guys stepping up and at least one of those slots likely going to a strong ST player that the last slot might not go to Reynolds.
I think it's very possible, perhaps even probable that he makes the team. I don't think Reynolds is the lock that Kupp is and that's not a knock on Reynolds, but rather giving the other guys credit for responding to the better coaching and a coherent offensive system.
I mean, we know Bradley Marquez is a helluva ST player. If they keep Reynolds and Marquez (and I'd be shocked if that last slot didn't go to an ST player, if not Marquez than someone else who's killing it on ST), then we have Austin, Woods, Kupp, Thomas, Reynolds, and [insert ST player here].
In years past, that'd be an easy pick... signed guys, drafted guys, one guy really showing up and an ST guy. Cool. However, there's so much competition that I'm simply saying that we can't know who's going to emerge beyond saying that one is probably going to be Mike Thomas based on what we've seen so far.
I'm glad they drafted both. I'm not going to be upset if one of the existing guys improves so much that he bumps one of the rookies out.
And when sitting in the draft room on Draft Day, there's no way anyone could know which players will take to the new coaching staff and offense, so we had to spend the pick.
I'm just making room for guys stepping up. I'm not predicting anything. When I do that, I'm usually pretty clear about it.
There is no way IMO that The Rams don't keep Spruuce,Kupp,Copper,Thomas,Reynolds,T.A. , & Woods . These guys all mean to much to the organization.
The funny thing about McVay is he is calling Thomas - Mike. I don't think he is talking about a LBer.
Copper is to good to cut .
If any of you look at McVays Paremyd then you'll see why Spruuce will really make the team besides everything else he brings on the grass.
I'll keep say 7 WRs. They will just keep getting better everyday.
I think injuries could play a role on 53 .
Salary cap considerations and GM ego are also factors when it comes to cutting a 4th round selection which is probably another reason why it very rarely happens.
7 WRs is what is going to be really. The guys on the cusp are going to play special teams.
I really like Reynolds size & think he has a lot of upside.
I also believe The Rams traded back a pick last year to pick up both P. Copper & Mike Thomas. -- Those to were steals last year , a Long with Tyler Higbee .
I like Hemingway ,but not sure about him. He was really raw , but has excellent athletic ability.
I heard that espn guy talk about Tyler the ex- Utah QB might be the real deal ?? -- talk about
a UDRFA ??? I think Corey Harkey is finally going to get cut. Another UDRFA that stuck around to long.
Yep !! Agree , plus Reynolds & P. Copper were traded back to the 117 pick. The Rams picked up there guy & add in each situation. Same as in Gerald Everett.
Just shows Snead has a good feel for his draft pick selections.No one wants to talk about John Johnson who thought enough of to draft as 91 overall. That is a pretty high pick.20 picks earlier than Tyler Higbee who was The Rams top draft pick last season after Jared Goff .
I think Thomas provides great special teams play. He's a lock for that alone. Marquez is on shaky ground.
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Well, we'll see. I've not made any statements about what will happen. Just guesses, but it's ultimately little more than that.
As long as the Rams start winning, I really won't care who they keep at WR or how many.
yeah, it's all a big unknown at this point. We don't know how other teams felt about Reynolds or how they'll feel about him after the preseason.
All these unknowns will make the preseason very interesting.
Yeah, I dunno. Maybe those guys don't make it because the team missed on the pick. That happens. Any pickup would really depend on the guy.
I mean if Reynolds shows decent physicality, but looks like he needs some extra development, then teams may not feel like they can give 1 of their 10 slots to a developmental receiver when some teams use it for an "injury pool".
Lots of ways this can go. And like I said, I think it's probable that Reynolds makes it to the 53. I just don't think it's as guaranteed as other think. Otherwise, we're robbing a bunch of guys of their agency and ability to improve themselves to the point of earning a spot.
I think this offseason will be very competitive and quite entertaining.
I mean if Reynolds shows decent physicality, but looks like he needs some extra development, then teams may not feel like they can give 1 of their 10 slots to a developmental receiver when some teams use it for an "injury pool".
Lots of ways this can go. And like I said, I think it's probable that Reynolds makes it to the 53. I just don't think it's as guaranteed as other think. Otherwise, we're robbing a bunch of guys of their agency and ability to improve themselves to the point of earning a spot.
I think this offseason will be very competitive and quite entertaining.