Tavon Austin is an interesting player...

[DaveFan'51]

Your post about TA is rediculous. I guess the multiple returns for TDs called back are his fault. In that case, he is a crap returner. And if it's "reported" that Cooper has a better feel for the playbook now then TA after two years, you better post this so called report otherwise nobody can take this garbage seriously. TA is the definition of electric. Any time the ball is in his hands, whether it be as a receiver or running back, it has a chance to go to the house. How many scores did he have last year? 10 on 141 touches. Gurley had 10 on 250 touches. The team asks Tavon to do it all. Meanwhile he hasn't had a QB worth a damn. Gimme a break. Drops mic.

GO RAMS!!

 

[jrry32]

Check out his stats. http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/15786/tavon-austin

Might be the most overrated player on the team.

Not the best RB, that's for sure. Not with Gurley back there.

Not the best WR, either. Those are mediocre numbers, fellas.

He's a middle of the road PR, too. At best.

Yet he's treated like he's the Second Coming by so many.

911 yards from scrimmage and 9 TDs on an offense that could not throw the ball. Not only was he an impact player with the ball in his hands, he was an impact player without the ball too. Our offense was shit last year. Tavon Austin and Todd Gurley were the only positive things we had going for us. Defenses keyed in on the two of them, and the only way we stopped either from being taken away was using the other as a decoy.

If you didn't see the value Austin brought to the offense last year when he was on the field, you weren't watching the games. We're not talking about fantasy football. We're talking about real football. And in real football, stats don't tell the whole story.

But I have to laugh at him being treated like the Second Coming. There are still people who treat him like a bust. The guy is treated by most Rams fans like one of the few skill players on offense who is actually worth gameplanning for...because he is.

I think he's a fine gadget player. A Swiss Army knife that does several things well. But not any one thing at a near Pro Bowl level. Not one. I know that they've already exercised his 5th year option, but at $12 million I wonder if we're getting full value.

The 5th year option is meaningless. It allows the Rams to negotiate an extension without FA looming in the background. If Austin doesn't play well enough to earn it, they can cut him. It's not fully guaranteed money.

And you're incorrect. As a punt returner, he's a Pro Bowl caliber player. And as an offensive weapon, he has the potential to be Pro Bowl caliber now that Goff is here.

Not sure what you expect from a WR on the worst passing attack in the NFL. Even guys like Calvin Johnson and Randy Moss had some down years on teams with bad passing attacks. WRs are completely reliant on the QB to get them the ball. Austin isn't Calvin or Moss, but he's more than what he's given credit for being. Goff will illustrate that.

I predict that Cooper will outplay Austin in a WR capacity this year by mid season. And will largely be able to replace his "gadget-ability" as well. Reportedly, Cooper already has a better handle on the playbook and O concepts before his first CAMP than Austin did after 2 full seasons.

I predict you're wrong. Cooper doesn't have Austin's ability with the ball in his hands. Cooper might grow to be a better pure WR, but he's not the same type of weapon.

 

[ramfan46]

I don't recall any called back last year. Years past yes but not last year. And every punter gets punts sent to him to make it harder to return. Just watch what Hekker does to our opposition.

He had a PR TD called back against Detroit. Tavon has had 4 TD's called back off the top of my head. PR against Dallas in 13, 40+ REC TD against Carolina in 13, Rushing TD against Chicago in 15 and the PR TD against Detroit that I mentioned above. He's one of the most dynamic players I've ever seen. He's had trash throwing to him his whole career outside of an average Bradford for the first SEVEN games of his career. I don't get the hate towards him, while people are still hoping Quick will figure out how to tie his shoes.

 

[OldSchool]

And that makes it useless. The one stat doesn't make him average.

BTW - he was tied for 16th in 2015 (couldn't get more average - eh?) But of course he placed 5th in 2014 so..... oh wait - that doesn't mean anything either.

@Roman Snow put it in clearer terms but that one stat is meaningless unless you look at how the player changes a game, the game plan, how many games he changes, etc... Saying TA is an average returner because of his average yards per return is simply a lazy argument.

Again I think he's a good returner but one simple fact seems to be escaping you or you just don't want to acknowledge it. Every team in the NFL schemes their punt and punt coverage to make it difficult for the returner to succeed. Regardless of how good the returner is the Rams every week kick away from the returner and do their best to negate their return game. Every team does this if they didn't their coaches wouldn't be employed for long.

Tavon's performance last year was mediocre in the punt return game. I'm sorry there's no way around that simple fact. He had very few returns other than his touchdown that were big gains. In fact if you take out his one outstanding return he averaged less than 7 yards a return. If you look at last years performance in the punt return game there is no way you would call Tavon a great returner. His first two years he was excellent. Last year, not so much.

 

[OldSchool]

He had a PR TD called back against Detroit. Tavon has had 4 TD's called back off the top of my head. PR against Dallas in 13, 40+ REC TD against Carolina in 13, Rushing TD against Chicago in 15 and the PR TD against Detroit that I mentioned above. He's one of the most dynamic players I've ever seen. He's had trash throwing to him his whole career outside of an average Bradford for the first SEVEN games of his career. I don't get the hate towards him, while people are still hoping Quick will figure out how to tie his shoes.

Ok first of all stop with the juvenile talk. I don't hate Tavon I've simply made one very very easy to understand comment. Tavon Austin's performance in the punt return game last year was mediocre. His first two years he was excellent. Got it? That wasn't too hard to comprehend was it? There's no hate in that got it? Sometimes people are able to take off the rose colored glasses and offer an honest opinion on people on their favorite teams.

Second of all what the the wide world of logic makes you think that because I said Tavon was mediocre in punt returning makes you think I feel Quick will turn out great? Go back in my prediction on the WR's that make the 53 man roster and come back to me. Never mind I'll make it easy for you I said Quick wouldn't make the 53 man roster. Clearly I think he's great and Tavon sucks eggs.

 

[Legatron4]

I don't recall any called back last year. Years past yes but not last year. And every punter gets punts sent to him to make it harder to return. Just watch what Hekker does to our opposition.

He had one touchdown against Detroit called back and one long return called back vs Arizona. It was 82 and 67 yards. That would give him 417 total and makes his average 11.5. That's good for top 5 in the league.

I'll just place this right here

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HD31Do9yRBo

Overrated hahaha

 

[tavian]

You really can't look at all the big returns that have been called back, and even a couple big plays that were called back, the throws that sailed out of bounds when he had his man beat like a drum, and simply cite stats to demonstrate the value of a player like TA. It is obvious to anyone watching that when the ball is in his hands, there is a WooHoo! moment from Rams fans and an Oh crap! moment from opposing fans and coaches. Add to that the plays that TA can open up for Gurley and others simply from him being on the field and running by the QB. He absolutely has to be accounted for. That carries a value no stat can measure. Do I wish his stats were better? Absolutely. Do I put that all on TA? Absolutely not.

Spot on.+100

 

[Athos]

Not a good WR. I pegged that early and often with the TA love. Nuke Hopkins was the choice for a guy to finally break the Holt curse.

That said, he's now a perfect backfield compliment to Gurley.

I wouldn't be worried so much about the yardage totals with Tavon, but the TD production, and how do you quantify that to contract payout?

Going forward, I think he averages at least 10 all purpose TDs a year which is a pretty nice total for a gadget player. And while his route running and hands have been lousy to mediocre to okay at best, the stable of QBs totting the rock has affecting his production. As have absolutely god awful penalties.

Also, I don't think he even qualifies as overrated in the first place. Or underrated. He's just kind of... there.

But he does take a lot of attention away from other players.

 

[LACHAMP46]

This opens some interesting discussion 43................Fit is so important with picks, and then you have that rawness too, which is also fit but does it make sense to take a guy who will need 3 years to develop in round 1 when the contract is for only 5 years? IMO Snead learned valuable lessons as GM from the Tavon and Quick picks.

I think Snisher felt Sam would be throwing to these guys...not Hill, Clemmons, Davis, Foles, and Keenum....but their wr selection this year was rather interesting, wasn't it?

The one thing the rams offense did well was run the ball and alot of that success came from the motion and movement of Tavon opening up things for Gurley.

This one play is his primary value at this point....and I give him credit for that....but his receiving skills....meh...and 503, he IS a slot receiver, he just doesn't know it yet.... lol

I don't get the hate towards him, while people are still hoping Quick will figure out how to tie his shoes.

too funny....made me LOL for realz....but I don't think this is hate....just discussion...unless you consider it hate to say he's not worth $12 million...

Not a good WR. I pegged that early and often with the TA love. Nuke Hopkins was the choice for a guy to finally break the Holt curse.

you and jrry said it best....and I liked Cord Patterson...so hey....and Nuke woulda been the right choice...but I doubt nuke would have nuke stats had he played with the Rams....

 

[kurtfaulk]

But he does take a lot of attention away from other players.

And that's why using stats against him is disingenuous.

They mean little to what he brings to the team.

.

 

[RamFan503]

Again I think he's a good returner but one simple fact seems to be escaping you or you just don't want to acknowledge it. Every team in the NFL schemes their punt and punt coverage to make it difficult for the returner to succeed. Regardless of how good the returner is the Rams every week kick away from the returner and do their best to negate their return game. Every team does this if they didn't their coaches wouldn't be employed for long.

Tavon's performance last year was mediocre in the punt return game. I'm sorry there's no way around that simple fact. He had very few returns other than his touchdown that were big gains. In fact if you take out his one outstanding return he averaged less than 7 yards a return. If you look at last years performance in the punt return game there is no way you would call Tavon a great returner. His first two years he was excellent. Last year, not so much.

And I think you are missing the obvious either because you are so entrenched in this idea that average return yards is the best gauge of a returner or you just don't want to acknowledge reality.

If any coach treated all returners the same, he would be out of a job in a nano-second. That's like saying no one double teams a great receiver or throws different looks at him or saying coaches never squib kick to avoid certain returners when they would kick away at other times. The idea that coaches don't scheme for specific returners is not based in reality. It's not IF they scheme to negate the return game, it's HOW they try to do it. Teams would rather give up the 15 yard return than have a guy like TA break a big one for a game changer.

You take away the longest return from ANY of the top returners and you are looking at about 1 or 2 yards difference on average between almost any of them. It's a useless stat.

Take an example because I watched it in person and keyed in on it in the second game. In the first game against Seattle, Ryan punts it high and short for a TA fair catch. The next one he punts it into the endzone for a touch back. The next punt is long and returned 75 yards by TA for a TD. The next punt, he sails it 61 yards, TA saw huge daylight and muffed the punt - probably from getting overly excited. He still gets 10 yards out of it. After the play, Carrol is livid with his ST coach and his punter on the sideline. Fast forward to the next time we play. Ryan has a long of 45 (16 yards shorter than the first game high and 12 yards shorter than the second longest punt of the day) and puts WAY more air under his punts including a fair catch on the 38 on a punt of 35 yards. He averages 8.6 yards per punt less than in the first game and allows only 2 returns out of 5 punts. Y'know what? Hekker did similar things with Lockett.

His first two years he was excellent.

So 9th is excellent? If you took away his longest return he averaged 5.7 yards per return in his first season. That is less than he averaged in 2015 if you take away the real reason the better punt returners change games and alter game plans. Are you also saying that Darren Sproles got vastly better over the past two years? That he suddenly became an elite returner?

Sometimes people are able to take off the rose colored glasses and offer an honest opinion on people on their favorite teams.

Come on man. Cut this kind of bullshit. Just because some don't buy your argument doesn't mean you are the only one seeing clearly and objectively. I don't see anyone here saying he is the best returner or receiver or running back. Just that he has an elite set of skills that force coaches to game plan for him any time he steps on the field. And that includes punt returns. Looks to me like you have blinders on but I would never accuse you of such.

 

[RamzFanz]

Concur about Greg Zuerlein BTW, @jrry32 made some valid points that Fisher asks quite a bit of him kicking long field goals which does play into his confidence, but I don't understand why when Fisher stated that there would be legitimate competition for Zuerlein this season the Rams chose not to sign the likes of Connor Barth, Garrett Hartely or even Zach Hocker who they had in for a cup of coffee last year. No, they bring in Taylor Bertolet who when you read is bio seems quite a bit like Greg Zuerlein.

I agree about GZ. Overrated and lost us games.

You're way off about TA. Look at his combined contribution, on a terrible O, and he's a huge asset. 907 combined yards on this offense is nothing to scoff at. Goff is going to expose his talents, IMHO. It's easy to criticize a guy who plays his heart out on a terrible offense, but not fair.

Not the best running back? He has an 8.3 career average. Which is also what he averaged last season with more carries than the rest of his career combined. He's not the best full time RB, because of size, but he IS the best at gaining yards on any given play. People think that when getting less carries it's easier to have big numbers, but that's not true. Over 50, like Tavon had, is not different than more carries.

I can't recall how many punt return TD's and yards TA has lost to unneeded penalties, but it's at least a half dozen.

This is the year of several players and TA is one of them if in my view.

 

[RamFan503]

you and jrry said it best....and I liked Cord Patterson...so hey....and Nuke woulda been the right choice...but I doubt nuke would have nuke stats had he played with the Rams....

I'll admit that I too liked Patterson better and lusted after the Rams grabbing him. Think I'd take TA in a heartbeat as it worked out. I have to agree with you as well that no way does Hopkins have those stats with our QB situation. You know what else he doesn't have? The rushing and return yards. Would he be better than our other receivers? It appears so. Would I rather have him than TA? No - not personally but I can certainly see a case to be made.

 

[RamzFanz]

Watch how they punt to him though. There are but a couple returners in the league that force punters to pinpoint like he does. That again is giving our team yards. I also have to wonder how many other returners had as many big plays called back. It does matter.

They short kicked Austin all last season. Any returner who buys you 10+ yards on the punt from fear is worth his weight in gold.

 

[RamFan503]

They short kicked Austin all last season. Any returner who buys you 10+ yards on the punt from fear is worth his weight in gold.

Nah. That was an accident.

 

[Roman Snow]

They short kicked Austin all last season. Any returner who buys you 10+ yards on the punt from fear is worth his weight in gold.

*there is another unmeasured reality in punt returning. Great point. Too bad Austin is so average, otherwise they would REALLY short kick us. :neener:

 

[RamzFanz]

Our offense was crap last year. Tavon Austin and Todd Gurley were the only positive things we had going for us.

Exactly. And go they did with what they had.

And you're incorrect. As a punt returner, he's a Pro Bowl caliber player. And as an offensive weapon, he has the potential to be Pro Bowl caliber now that Goff is here.

People seem to forget that teams short punted us all season just to keep the ball out of his hands and he STILL hosed many of them.

Every team in the NFL schemes their punt and punt coverage to make it difficult for the returner to succeed.

Except they don't short punt. There might be 3 or 4 punt returners that got short punted as much as TA last season. Teams will do anything to keep his hands off the ball including surrendering 10+ yards. ALL season he was short punted and some teams that didn't at first, quickly changed tactics.

TA's punt return yards, when you include short punt surrendering to his awesomeness, might be the best in the NFL for 2015. I would take that bet.

 

[den-the-coach]

I agree about GZ. Overrated and lost us games.

You're way off about TA.

I did not post anything negative about Austin, must have me mixed up with somebody else.

 

[RamFan503]

Ok first of all stop with the juvenile talk.

Wait. What?

 

[RamzFanz]

I did not post anything negative about Austin, must have me mixed up with somebody else.

Sorry, mixed you up with 43. Carry on sir.