Ray-Ray Armstrong taking on expanded role/Wagoner

[mr.stlouis]

As I mentioned earlier, the switch back to a more traditional SLB/WLB scheme will not only be beneficial from a coverage standpoint (having Ogletree being the one lined up over the TE), it also moves Dunbar back to the position he played in 2012 when he put together a pretty successful season. He will be freed up to be more of a playmaker, both in blitz packages, but also in run support.

While I won't go so far as to say he is flying around, I have seen nothing thus far to suggest he won't return to form.

That's beautiful, CoachO. Thank u for your insight. It never occurred to me Dunbar was playing a new role that didn't fit. Walton had that effect on several guys. I was leaning towards he quit juicing but I don't like to say it lol.

 

[simonblaze]

This guy plays a little too reckless for my liking. Hopefully Dunbar has a season like the one he had in his first year with us

 

[Selassie I]

BOOM

 

[RamBill]

Linebacker Ray Ray Armstrong chats with Casey Phillips about his new leadership role, today’s physical practice and much more. (1:29)

Watch Ray Ray's Interview

 

[Orchid]

Now, that being said, after seeing what Williams is doing with the Linebacking scheme in general, having Ogletree lining up as the SLB, I will concede that IF ( I said IF) something were happen to Dunbar, I can see Armstrong being much more able to handle the WLB role. Not having a TE across from his would allow him to free lance (something he seems to like to do) and just concentrate on making plays.

CoachO,

I am new to the site but have enjoyed your posts and the discussions they generate....
Does this scheme change of GW (SLB/WLB) extend to the safety position> Can we expect to see more of Mcleod as the high safety and more of McDonald in the box? If this is the new scheme, what roles will Daniels, Davis, alexander play?

 

[CoachO]

CoachO,

I am new to the site but have enjoyed your posts and the discussions they generate....
Does this scheme change of GW (SLB/WLB) extend to the safety position> Can we expect to see more of Mcleod as the high safety and more of McDonald in the box? If this is the new scheme, what roles will Daniels, Davis, alexander play?

It would appear that it has, and yes, McLeod has been the single high safety on most occasions. As far as the depth guys, thus far, Davis and Alexander have been taking all the 2nd team reps, with Alexander in McDonald's role, and Davis in McLeod's role.

Matt Daniels participated for the first time in team drills on Sunday, and he was relegated to 3rd team reps, so its tough to get a gauge on what their plans are for him.

 

[leoram]

If Williams does with Armstrong what he did with Dunbar in New Orleans, you'll notice splash plays that most will celebrate but way too many bad gambles that will get the defense gashed. The only saving grace is that our DLine will require extra blocking attention so the LBs will face fewer second level blocks.

As to whether or not Snisher thought we were set at linebacker, CJ Mosely was very high on their list just behind Donald and Martin.

As to what Bates and Armstrong add to the defense, provided Williams can coax accountability and discipline, the rabid dog mentality fits Williams profile.

 

[fearsomefour]

If Williams does with Armstrong what he did with Dunbar in New Orleans, you'll notice splash plays that most will celebrate but way too many bad gambles that will get the defense gashed. The only saving grace is that our DLine will require extra blocking attention so the LBs will face fewer second level blocks.

As to whether or not Snisher thought we were set at linebacker, CJ Mosely was very high on their list just behind Donald and Martin.

As to what Bates and Armstrong add to the defense, provided Williams can coax accountability and discipline, the rabid dog mentality fits Williams profile.

I agree. I think Williams is a mixed bag....better than last year which was an empty bag.

 

[LACHAMP46]

Great discussion...

Starting to think Wagoner is acting as Armstrong's de facto agent. I have never seen one writer try to build up one player more than Wagoner has this entire off season as he as with this guy.

While Armstrong ( I refuse to call him Ray Ray) flashes as an athlete, and can be impressive in a zone scheme, until he shows me he is willing to take on a block rather than run around it, I still will not be sold on his value as a LB.

ahahahahahahahahha, Nick has been on his jock, but there is a reason. The kid brings passion. You won't call him Ray Ray, LMAO!!!, too funny. It's 2014 Coach, it's different now....
Serious biz, The change to WLB should return Dunbar (is Jo Lonn better than Ray Ray?) to his 2012 self....But he'll still have coverage duties on RBs, and occasionally his zone. And frankly, he was terrible in this aspect. I'm interested to see how Ray Ray plays in the preseason, I'd expected him to add a lil more muscle, and he didn't. But Jack Lambert had lil arms too...but we'll see. Taking on blocks, slipping blocks, it's an art form, it's a feel, when to do what. Some guys have it, some guys have played LB so long it comes natural. Ray Ray & Tree are basically babes at LB....They better pony up close to the vets....
Our D-Line will make the LB play less stressful, all we need is a stud to fly to the play, and watch the magic happen.

 

[CoachO]

Great discussion...


ahahahahahahahahha, Nick has been on his jock, but there is a reason. The kid brings passion. You won't call him Ray Ray, LMAO!!!, too funny. It's 2014 Coach, it's different now....
Serious biz, The change to WLB should return Dunbar (is Jo Lonn better than Ray Ray?) to his 2012 self....But he'll still have coverage duties on RBs, and occasionally his zone. And frankly, he was terrible in this aspect. I'm interested to see how Ray Ray plays in the preseason, I'd expected him to add a lil more muscle, and he didn't. But Jack Lambert had lil arms too...but we'll see. Taking on blocks, slipping blocks, it's an art form, it's a feel, when to do what. Some guys have it, some guys have played LB so long it comes natural. Ray Ray & Tree are basically babes at LB....They better pony up close to the vets....
Our D-Line will make the LB play less stressful, all we need is a stud to fly to the play, and watch the magic happen.

I get all of that. Why does everyone seem to continue to harp on Dunbar and his coverage issues? HE gave up 18 completions in 12 games, that's a whopping avg of 1.5 per game? Will Armstrong be better at that facet of the game? most likely, yes. But Dunbar is in there in the BASE 4-3 to be a playmaker in the RUN GAME, and to blitz off the edge in certain passing situation.

Until Armstrong shows he can be the same force IN THE RUN DEFENSE I am just not ready to hand over the job. Either way, whoever that is, will NOT be on the field even 50 % of the total snaps.

 

[Orchid]

Until Armstrong shows he can be the same force IN THE RUN DEFENSE I am just not ready to hand over the job. Either way, whoever that is, will NOT be on the field even 50 % of the total snaps.

Run defense (4 games agaist S'hawks and 49ers during thyear; opener against Vikings and out of conference games against Bucs, Cowboys, Eagles (yes the Eagles run the Rock), and Chiefs is the reason that Dunbar will excel at WLB.... he can play the run and can cover backs out of the back field. He has done in this defense. RR A is too much of the will card to start early. I and his lack of discipline scares me. Do not expect to see RR get heavy time until the Broncos in week 10 (our 9th game) when his ability to match up with the athletes of Denver's will be useful.

 

[BD-TomCat]

I am not necessarily talking about out in the open field. You do what you have to make a play. But when you are "in the box" and have an assigned gap you better find a way to fill it. And lets assume for a minute BOTH Ogletree and Armstrong are on the field at the same time...... Do you really want TWO OLBs who BOTH have a tendency to "slide around blocks? I don't!

I'm glad your position is changing a little bit. I think teams will have so much trouble blocking our front four that we wont have to worry about our lb's running around blocks. Hopefully they will be running Free

 

[Orchid]

It would appear that it has, and yes, McLeod has been the single high safety on most occasions. As far as the depth guys, thus far, Davis and Alexander have been taking all the 2nd team reps, with Alexander in McDonald's role, and Davis in McLeod's role.

Matt Daniels participated for the first time in team drills on Sunday, and he was relegated to 3rd team reps, so its tough to get a gauge on what their plans are for him.

Thanks CoachO...

I am up beat about your response....

I have always felt there was a distinct difference between the 2 outside linebackers and the 2 safety positions in a 4-3. I think Mcleod will do better than advertised in the high safety role. I was a little confused by some of your "Camp reports" that seem to imply that Davis was backing up McDonald and Alexander was at FS or High Safety. I understand that this is their future wish, IMO the high safety position requires currently too much range and responsibility for Alexander. My High safety has 2 reponsibilities..... last man standing (NEVER} miss the tackle if you are in the zip & have speed to go side line to side line on at a minimum of 25-30 yards. I think Davis MIGHT be able to fulfill this need. Lastly, any chance that Gaines gets a look at FS.

To all.... Keep the GREAT conversation going.

 

[CoachO]

Thanks CoachO...

I am up beat about your response....

I have always felt there was a distinct difference between the 2 outside linebackers and the 2 safety positions in a 4-3. I think Mcleod will do better than advertised in the high safety role. I was a little confused by some of your "Camp reports" that seem to imply that Davis was backing up McDonald and Alexander was at FS or High Safety. I understand that this is their future wish, IMO the high safety position requires currently too much range and responsibility for Alexander. My High safety has 2 reponsibilities..... last man standing (NEVER} miss the tackle if you are in the zip & have speed to go side line to side line on at a minimum of 25-30 yards. I think Davis MIGHT be able to fulfill this need. Lastly, any chance that Gaines gets a look at FS.

To all.... Keep the GREAT conversation going.

At this point, Gaines is needed at the CB position, and in the Nickel role. I don't see him getting any reps at Safety. Again its early, but he looks better than either McGee or Woodard.

 

[CoachO]

I'm glad your position is changing a little bit. I think teams will have so much trouble blocking our front four that we wont have to worry about our lb's running around blocks. Hopefully they will be running Free

I am still not ready to say i am ready to say Armstrong is an improvement. In fact quite the opposite. If you think the d-line somehow makes it ok to run out of your gap responsibility then we aren't talking the same language. AS the WLB, he is still counted on to line up and be responsible for either the "B" or "C" gap to his side. AND from what I just watched in today's camp, in shoulder pads, I didn't see Armstrong do anything that even resembled filling a gap. He did a great jpob moving side to side and waiting for the rest of the front line to make a stop, then he ran to the pile to get in the frame after the fact.

The ONLY time you noticed him in this defense is when he is blitzing off the edge. So no, he NOT even close to being a starting WLB, IMO.

 

[BD-TomCat]

I'm not ready to anoint him the starter. I want him to earn it. I just feel in the long run of things he will be a better option then Dunbar. His gap discipline will improve with time and coaching.

 

[Orchid]

At this point, Gaines is needed at the CB position, and in the Nickel role. I don't see him getting any reps at Safety. Again its early, but he looks better than either McGee or Woodard.

Thanks ... I will roll with your eyeball observations.

 

[DR RAM]

Where he is best suited, IMO, in the long term. Offenses will still scheme to find your weaknesses though. That is what they do. Think of Dunbar, like JJ, when he peeks too long. When Dunbar has to cover a back out of the backfield, he peeks, and gets lost, or loses contain. He got better at it the last third of two seasons ago, but that was his problem, if you ask me. I forgot the team, but they won the game by matching Dunbar up with a fullback, and it worked for them the whole game, even on the game winning touchdown.