Rams Face Potential Issues Hiring an OC/Stalter

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Memphis Ram said:
Yeah, I'm still waiting for the run first offense.
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I am not sure but does any team run more than they pass in this league right now? Having a good running game is one thing but keeping pace with good passing offenses is another.

I actually think the Rams tried to run first the few times they had a lead. We saw it often in the second half. They come out running and have no success because the opposing team new it and stopped it due to a porous Oline. But focusing too much on the run doesn't add up to enough points. We saw that with the GSOT. Opponents couldn't score with them, unless they had a great defense. Now that the Rams defense is starting to shape up (and if they fix the Oline) maybe we start to see more running.
 
Elmgrovegnome said:
Neither the Patriots or Steelers started out with a roster that needed to be completely rebuilt. In three years how many starters are still on the Rams roster? Bradford and Saffold on O and Quinn, Long and Laurinitis on D. That is an enormous amount of turnover.

What do I think the Patriots/Steelers model is? Stability. I think it is the same thing the Bengals have been trying to do with Marvin Lewis.

What is the main difference between successful teams and unsuccessful teams? A good QB, who is healthy. Pete Carroll was a middling coach before Russel Wilson. Bellicheck was average before Tom Brady. Marvin Lewis has a good team but not a good Qb. An intelligent owner realizes this. If the rest of the team around the QB is improving but the team just does not have a top QB how do you blame it on the coach? The Rams are still improving. The D has improved, the run game improved despite a bad OLine, the receiving corps has improved. The few times the Rams had good QB play this year the offense actually looked good, despite the bad Oline. Fix the line and some of those games are different. They got through some growing pains with a new DC but that seems to be behind them.

I just don't see how the Rams start out under Kroenke saying that he wants a stable franchise using a successful model and then after 4 years he is ready to ditch the entire plan. Who is he? Daniel Snyder? I think he trusts Fisher and is more concerned with the stadium issues. He isn't swooping in to give Fisher the hook because he is a businessman that knows that things take time to unfold. Penalties came down, the D started to play like a top ten D, receivers improved as scheduled, the RB position is strong. The Rams don't have a roster shot full of holes. I just think Fans are more impatient than the owner in this case.
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Thats what I am saying - to say we are following their model means there is a model that compares. You said it yourself they haven't been through anything similar so we do not know what they would do under similar circumstances. Of course they have been stable - they have been winning.

There is a difference between trying to be a stable franchise and sticking with something that isn't working...there is a line there. I do not know what Kronenke's line is. Your line seems to be very far away, for others it is much closer, and for some he has passed it. Note that I am not saying he has passed MY line - though I will say this next year is where it will be.

This conversation though is about getting an OC. Any OC you talk to will have concerns about this - and ownership/managment can say all they want about staying the course....but if you are a coach of any level you know how reliable that is. Anyone coming in has to assume that short of the playoffs next year there will be change. You assume that not because of what you are told by the Rams or the fans, but based on the history of coaching in the NFL. I see people say "show me coach that has dealt with similar circumstances"....but that isn't the question if you are looking at this job...the question is "show me a coach that has kept his job after 4 non-winning seasons regardless of circumstances" and you have to be worried about the record considering the current QB and OL situation. As a OC you will NOT likely get a couple of years to get it right or develop guys.
 
I'm really sick of talking about this run first approach cus it hasn't happened in this era besides the second half of last year with Stacy. so somebody better step up and actually stick to their word when they say they're gonna pound the damn rock. assuming we ever get a line
 
Robocop said:
I'm really sick of talking about this run first approach cus it hasn't happened in this era besides the second half of last year with Stacy. so somebody better step up and actually stick to their word when they say they're gonna pound the damn rock. assuming we ever get a line
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There in lies the problem. The line is still not good. They tried to fix it but not much has worked. Stop gaps are not the solution though. Jake Long and Scott Wells were never long term answers. Two good linemen change the face of the offense IMO.
 
drasconis said:
Thats what I am saying - to say we are following their model means there is a model that compares. You said it yourself they haven't been through anything similar so we do not know what they would do under similar circumstances. Of course they have been stable - they have been winning.

There is a difference between trying to be a stable franchise and sticking with something that isn't working...there is a line there. I do not know what Kronenke's line is. Your line seems to be very far away, for others it is much closer, and for some he has passed it. Note that I am not saying he has passed MY line - though I will say this next year is where it will be.

This conversation though is about getting an OC. Any OC you talk to will have concerns about this - and ownership/managment can say all they want about staying the course....but if you are a coach of any level you know how reliable that is. Anyone coming in has to assume that short of the playoffs next year there will be change. You assume that not because of what you are told by the Rams or the fans, but based on the history of coaching in the NFL. I see people say "show me coach that has dealt with similar circumstances"....but that isn't the question if you are looking at this job...the question is "show me a coach that has kept his job after 4 non-winning seasons regardless of circumstances" and you have to be worried about the record considering the current QB and OL situation. As a OC you will NOT likely get a couple of years to get it right or develop guys.
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Well Considering the Rams set the precedent of the size of roster overturn and QB issues while doing so I can see a smart owner setting a different precedent as far as the 4 year time line.

The Rams had literally 4 players when Fisher took over.

Long laurenitus Bradford and Ajax that's it the rest of the roster was eh players at best. Sjax wanted to leave and win now so that dropped it to 3 players. So almost EVERY position and every depth player had to be overturned.

What Fisher/Snead has done is fill the roster with young talent and build mostly through the draft. They have built up a team where the depth on defense is better then what the Rams had as starters when they took over.

Defense mostly fixed special teams playing way better offense struggling yes but largely due to 3 critical things unhealthy QB and meh oline.

There really has been much QB talent coming out in the draft the last 3 years. Developmental possibilities at best and we've needed more then that based on Bradford knee. So fish/Snead tried to fix that with Hill.

With 2 of 3 phases working well Fisher starts the off season by stating the offensive philosophy will see changes and shotty takes a new job. Showing that it's in fishers mind time to put his focus wholly on the offense (we shall see) .

You say show me a coach last more then 4 years despite circumstances.

I say watch Jeff Fisher set the precedent.

Furthermore not to fuel flames because I want the Rams here in St Louis. But what better coach to have around if Stan really wants to move his team fishers already been through it and knows how to keep the team playing
 
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I always hate how articles like this imply that "run first" is some kind of 4-letter word that automatically means boring or limited somehow. A power running game and creativity do not have to be mutually exclusive.
 
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drasconis said:
Thats what I am saying - to say we are following their model means there is a model that compares. You said it yourself they haven't been through anything similar so we do not know what they would do under similar circumstances. Of course they have been stable - they have been winning.

There is a difference between trying to be a stable franchise and sticking with something that isn't working...there is a line there. I do not know what Kronenke's line is. Your line seems to be very far away, for others it is much closer, and for some he has passed it. Note that I am not saying he has passed MY line - though I will say this next year is where it will be.

This conversation though is about getting an OC. Any OC you talk to will have concerns about this - and ownership/managment can say all they want about staying the course....but if you are a coach of any level you know how reliable that is. Anyone coming in has to assume that short of the playoffs next year there will be change. You assume that not because of what you are told by the Rams or the fans, but based on the history of coaching in the NFL. I see people say "show me coach that has dealt with similar circumstances"....but that isn't the question if you are looking at this job...the question is "show me a coach that has kept his job after 4 non-winning seasons regardless of circumstances" and you have to be worried about the record considering the current QB and OL situation. As a OC you will NOT likely get a couple of years to get it right or develop guys.
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Chuck Knolls first 3 years he was 12-30 THAT was the start of their stability program so yeah they have been through the losing years too.
 
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Irish said:
You have to pass when you are behind. The Rams are ALWAYS behind.
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That wasn't even close to true this year. We were often playing with the lead, which is where the issues in the offense came from.

Just think how many leads we blew in the second half this year, so ridiculous.
 
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blackbart said:
Chuck Knolls first 3 years he was 12-30 THAT was the start of their stability program so yeah they have been through the losing years too.
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Good lord did you just compare Knolls from 1969 to say that the current regime would stay the course...seriously stretching it sir. Also note that he dominated his 4th year...so you can't say what they would have done had he been only average that year.
 
drasconis said:
Good lord did you just compare Knolls from 1969 to say that the current regime would stay the course...seriously stretching it sir. Also note that he dominated his 4th year...so you can't say what they would have done had he been only average that year.
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Not a stretch at all the Steelers organization has been the model of consistency over the last 35 years, that was the issue. Teams that build from the basement have a ways to go for turning a franchise around. The Rams rebuild may have been the biggest in the history of the league. And without a healthy QB over the last 1 year and 9 game of the three years in question the Rams have still won 20 games.

We'll see how year 4 compares after 2015 hopefully we'll have a healthy QB.

The game may have changed some in terms of how they play for the passing game and drawing penalties but the basics are still the same.
 
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Irish said:
You have to pass when you are behind. The Rams are ALWAYS behind.
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even when the Rams scrapped the spread offense, the next few games with bradford still showed a strong passing game -especially against the jags.

In those games before garbage time,it was somethin like 60/40 pass/run. Stacy averaged 16 carries a game with bradford as a starter, the next 3 with clemens he averaged around 23.

In those games with Sam, especially the jags and texans, the Rams maintained a lead pretty much throughout
 
Bottom line for me regarding Kroenke and the Patriots/Steelers "model"?

His word isn't holding much water with me at the moment.
 
blackbart said:
Not a stretch at all the Steelers organization has been the model of consistency over the last 35 years, that was the issue. Teams that build from the basement have a ways to go for turning a franchise around. The Rams rebuild may have been the biggest in the history of the league. And without a healthy QB over the last 1 year and 9 game of the three years in question the Rams have still won 20 games.

We'll see how year 4 compares after 2015 hopefully we'll have a healthy QB.

The game may have changed some in terms of how they play for the passing game and drawing penalties but the basics are still the same.
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They have been the model of consistent winning. The question would be how many years of subpar play (regardless of circumstances) would they go until they made a coaching changes. Since they haven't been faced with it we do not know what they would do. ..that is why the comparison can't be made.

Do you think if Tomlin had 4 nonwinning seasons they would stick with him?

How many seasons do you stick with JF, what record does he need next year to keep his job for you, or does he keep it no matter what if it was you?

I am not amoung those that want him fired currently, but I do believe next year is a major determinant if he should be kept. This came up because the idea of extending Fishs' contract was raised....would you do that at this point?
 
drasconis said:
They have been the model of consistent winning. The question would be how many years of subpar play (regardless of circumstances) would they go until they made a coaching changes. Since they haven't been faced with it we do not know what they would do. ..that is why the comparison can't be made.

Do you think if Tomlin had 4 nonwinning seasons they would stick with him?

How many seasons do you stick with JF, what record does he need next year to keep his job for you, or does he keep it no matter what if it was you?

I am not amoung those that want him fired currently, but I do believe next year is a major determinant if he should be kept. This came up because the idea of extending Fishs' contract was raised....would you do that at this point?
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When it comes to keeping Fisher it depends on what happens with players health. If Bradford can't play for the entire season how is that solely on the head coach. He may have had input to last years off season back up QBs but, by all accounts Bradford was going to be fine going in to the season. And, Bradford looked great in the limited time he played in the preseason. The big screw up this year was putting J Long in there before he was ready, that put Bradford at a higher risk and we all saw what happened. Not having your QB for 25 games in 2 years brings down expectations for the W/L record IMO. If they can't get someone better in here this year I'm looking at Snead more than Fisher.
 
blackbart said:
When it comes to keeping Fisher it depends on what happens with players health.
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Is that your anwer to the question put forth?
How many seasons do you stick with JF, what record does he need next year to keep his job for you, or does he keep it no matter what if it was you?
Because it doesn't answer it clearly. I see a reasonable argument for keeping him currently (which I have already stated I agree with), but no answer for what is required by him going forward. Are you saying the past 3 years are "mulligans" due to circumstances and he still has 3 years? If we have QB injuries for the next 10 years, and never reach the playoffs does Fish keep his job the whole time? I am just not seeing where you draw the line, at what point it is time for a coaching change in your mind, I am seeing defense for previous performance....but nothing for future expections/requirements.
 
Elmgrovegnome said:
There in lies the problem. The line is still not good. They tried to fix it but not much has worked. Stop gaps are not the solution though. Jake Long and Scott Wells were never long term answers. Two good linemen change the face of the offense IMO.
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definitely. even with the wrecked line they still didn't try enough this year IMO. why didn't they get mason bouncing to the outside more. when he did get chances it was pretty effective. but all I saw was inside runs with shit linemen for blockers maybe I just have no idea what I'm talking about but w/e. made zero sense. another reason I'm glad Schotty is gone.
 
drasconis said:
Is that your anwer to the question put forth?
How many seasons do you stick with JF, what record does he need next year to keep his job for you, or does he keep it no matter what if it was you?
Because it doesn't answer it clearly. I see a reasonable argument for keeping him currently (which I have already stated I agree with), but no answer for what is required by him going forward. Are you saying the past 3 years are "mulligans" due to circumstances and he still has 3 years? If we have QB injuries for the next 10 years, and never reach the playoffs does Fish keep his job the whole time? I am just not seeing where you draw the line, at what point it is time for a coaching change in your mind, I am seeing defense for previous performance....but nothing for future expections/requirements.
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It certainly is not only determined by W/L record, if that is the only criteria i tis short sighted and no one will ever be good enough. Fisher keeps his job next year regardless of record. If a coach loses the team. If he can't win with good talent. If he has philosophical differences with the owner. Then it is time to make a move
 
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