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Elmgrovegnome

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I have a strange gut feeling that McVay likes Sanders. I guess I'd be ok if he fell to 26 and we took him (very unlikely IMO), but I'd be very against trading up for him.

Imagine the excitement of hearing that the Rams traded up in the draft with Loveland, Barron, W.Johnson, etc still on the board and then hearing Sanders is the pick.
I can’t see it. McVay likes to throw the ball downfield and not just dunk and dunk like Shanahan does. Plus he’s big on character. There were several reports that Shaddeur turned off a lot of teams with his non chalant attitude. That doesn’t sound like a McVay type.
 

WestCoastRam

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With the exception of a few big moments, he was average a lot of his career. But that is what separates the good ones from the bad. In his biggest moment Darnold crumbled.
I deleted the post but basically cause of what you said. He was a top 15 QB for half his career who turned it on on the biggest stage. I'd put him above average.
 

jjab360

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The list of QB's who have had multiple mediocre years but also great years is literally endless.

I could add 50 more QB's to this list.

What is the difference in the bad and great years? Supporting cast/Coach/System.

ALL of these QB's have proven they can throw accurate, read a defense and execute the system at a high level when the surrounding pieces are there. Any of these QB's could have had a Darnold year with the Vikings.

To assume these QB's suddenly remember how to throw a football and read a defense and then have years when they forget again is beyond absurd.

Blake Bortles
Alex Smith
Mark Brunell
Jake Delhomme
Sam Darnold
Baker Mayfield
Rich Gannon
Jim Plunkett
Eli Manning
Ron Jaworski
Doug Williams
Jeff Garcia
Trent Green
Goff

Patrick Mahomes:
2018 50 TD 12 Int 113 QB rating
2024 26 TD 11 int 93.5 QB rating

Clearly Mahomes forgot how to read a defense and throw a football. :laugh4:

I mean yes... obviously the entirety of the supporting cast is more important than just the QB. However your argument that the QB position should be devalued does lose some edge when Mahones still took that mediocre supporting cast to the Super Bowl, though.

To me at the end of the day you can get a mediocre QB to put up good stats but the trend in the league is that everything is made so much easier when you have one of those superstar QBs, especially in the playoffs. We saw what the upgrade from Goff to Stafford with pretty much the same supporting cast did for this team firsthand.
 

TexasRam

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I mean yes... obviously the entirety of the supporting cast is more important than just the QB. However your argument that the QB position should be devalued does lose some edge when Mahones still took that mediocre supporting cast to the Super Bowl, though.

To me at the end of the day you can get a mediocre QB to put up good stats but the trend in the league is that everything is made so much easier when you have one of those superstar QBs, especially in the playoffs. We saw what the upgrade from Goff to Stafford with pretty much the same supporting cast did for this team firsthand.
The Chiefs defense was the catalyst in my book.

Goff did not have Kupp in the Super Bowl and the Rams do not make it or win the Super Bowl without Kupp. But that is a debate we have beat to death.

You certainly can win a Super Bowl
Without a top Qb. Jalen Hurts won it with his supporting cast, so did Trent Dilfer, Eli, Doug Williams and the list goes on.

Especially in todays NFL where the QB contract is 3x the annual salary of many key starters.
 

PhillyRam

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McShay now reporting that it looks like Dart & Sanders are sliding and that is why they are no longer attending the Draft.

To summarize overall what they are saying. Maybe only 1 QB in rd 1. A lot of teams who are working out these QBs, right before the draft, are deciding who to take in the 2nd wave, rds 2 & 3. Seems like the fact that they are all equally ranked that teams are willing to see who get to them...who's left when they pick in rd 2. He is adamant that New Orleans is not taking a QB early. Nor is Pitt in rd 1.

It also sounds like this year will be the opposite of last year. A heavy defensive first round with pass rushers moving up the board.


View: https://youtu.be/zpQe4keh-uA?si=Pk2h_0mIVFmbCAN-
 
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WestCoastRam

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I mean yes... obviously the entirety of the supporting cast is more important than just the QB. However your argument that the QB position should be devalued does lose some edge when Mahones still took that mediocre supporting cast to the Super Bowl, though.

To me at the end of the day you can get a mediocre QB to put up good stats but the trend in the league is that everything is made so much easier when you have one of those superstar QBs, especially in the playoffs. We saw what the upgrade from Goff to Stafford with pretty much the same supporting cast did for this team firsthand.
The most succinct way I've heard it put is an elite QB raises the floor of your team every year.
 

WestCoastRam

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McShay now reporting that it looks like Dart & Sanders are sliding and that is why they are no longer attending the Draft.

To summarize overall what they are saying. Maybe only 1 QB in rd 1. A lot of teams who are working out these QBs, right before the draft, are deciding who to take in the 2nd wave, rds 2 & 3. Seems like the fact that they are all equally ranked that teams are willing to see who get to them...who's left when they pick in rd 2. He is adamant that New Orleans is not taking a QB early. Nor is Pitt in rd 1.

It also sounds like this year will be the opposite of last year. A heavy defensive first round with pass rushers moving up the board.


View: https://youtu.be/zpQe4keh-uA?si=Pk2h_0mIVFmbCAN-

Appreciate the summary, so much content out there, I never get to McShay's show.

It's so funny, seems like every year we have these views of the draft around end of January that start changing with the draft industrial complex getting going with risers and fallers and QB's who could surprise... and then, days before the draft, we're right back to January's analysis again.
 

dieterbrock

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Goff did not have Kupp in the Super Bowl and the Rams do not make it or win the Super Bowl without Kupp. But that is a debate we have beat to death.
They did make it to the SB in 2018 without Kupp though, no debate needed
 

dieterbrock

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McShay now reporting that it looks like Dart & Sanders are sliding and that is why they are no longer attending the Draft.
McShay is now reporting why you shouldnt pay attention to him or any other until the draft actually happens...
3+ days to go, and all teams have their own 1st round pick and no trades have been made. I have to believe this is a first
 

PhillyRam

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McShay is now reporting why you shouldnt pay attention to him or any other until the draft actually happens...
3+ days to go, and all teams have their own 1st round pick and no trades have been made. I have to believe this is a first
Well, we shall see how good his sources are. He claims these are the consensus thoughts he is hearing from his sources on various teams.

Of course he may have some scouts who have talked to him, but teams don't always listen to their scouts... or for that matter lower level front office types. We shall see.
 

dieterbrock

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Well, we shall see how good his sources are. He claims these are the consensus thoughts he is hearing from his sources on various teams.

Of course he may have some scouts who have talked to him, but teams don't always listen to their scouts... or for that matter lower level front office types. We shall see.
And all it takes is 1 team
Dart changing his mind about attending is the most interesting development IMO, sounds like he's not going as early as he had hoped
 

Merlin

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McShay now reporting that it looks like Dart & Sanders are sliding and that is why they are no longer attending the Draft.
I think teams know Dart is not a good play for an early first round QB because he needs that redshirt. If you're gonna reach for a QB up top it means you need a starter now. That's not Dart. It's also not Milroe. At least not from my easy chair. My hope is all these rumors elevating both those dudes up top have been BS, and that they both are available at 26 so if McVay likes one of them he can take them.

Shough is a better choice for the teams who want a dude who can make the throws and need to reach for a starter for now. I mean nobody in the media seems to be acknowledging that Cam is a reach up top as well, but I don't think he's quite as polished as I'd want with a one overall choice. So if you need a QB in this draft you're gonna need to reach. I think that's going to be a truth in this draft because you don't have the guys up top who have those boxes checked.

What is really going to be interesting is the 20s. Because some of the teams who need QBs may take BPA in round 1 then try to swoop back in for that 5th year of team control and also getting the project they prefer with their second choice.

So if McVay isn't sweet on any of these QBs as a project he and Les should have trade down offers. But if he is then maybe he just says fuck it and writes that top pick off to ensure he's got a guy behind Stafford learning. And this is where the Darts or Milroes make sense. Being taken by teams who have actual QBs so they don't need to suffer through their learning curve by losing games.

Now granted... Ideally in today's NFL the team finds a QB in the first round of the draft they can start from day one and gets 5 years of team control and budget QB play. And if he's great then of course you gotta sign him earlier. But that extra year of team control helps there too. But for a guy like McVay who has been dealing with contract BS with his starting QB for two years running... I'd say QB may be in play. In fact I'd say QB would be a perfect thing to do if you can find the right dude to sit behind Stafford.

One last element here is how long does it take Milroe or Dart to be ready. I mean look at Richardson for fuck's sake. In other words if the Rams are thinking QB at 26 one big time consideration may be whether the dude will be ready for spring 2026 to jump into the fire. And that's where we gotta trust McVay's eye for these guys, which I do. I've been right and wrong on QBs just like any other position so it's not like I think I know anything for sure with this BS. But I do think Dart's going to be a stud QB at this level. And I think Shough if he makes it to 26 may be the guy for McVay. And I also think McCord may be the best fit of all, so if McVay loves him and is telling you that he needs to have him where do you position to take him...
 

WestCoastRam

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Well, we shall see how good his sources are. He claims these are the consensus thoughts he is hearing from his sources on various teams.

Of course he may have some scouts who have talked to him, but teams don't always listen to their scouts... or for that matter lower level front office types. We shall see.
Yes, we can be so directionally right about things like QBs but even then, all it takes is one team or one owner to make a decision in the draft whether at QB or any position.
 

WestCoastRam

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I think teams know Dart is not a good play for an early first round QB because he needs that redshirt. If you're gonna reach for a QB up top it means you need a starter now. That's not Dart. It's also not Milroe. At least not from my easy chair. My hope is all these rumors elevating both those dudes up top have been BS, and that they both are available at 26 so if McVay likes one of them he can take them.

Shough is a better choice for the teams who want a dude who can make the throws and need to reach for a starter for now. I mean nobody in the media seems to be acknowledging that Cam is a reach up top as well, but I don't think he's quite as polished as I'd want with a one overall choice. So if you need a QB in this draft you're gonna need to reach. I think that's going to be a truth in this draft because you don't have the guys up top who have those boxes checked.

What is really going to be interesting is the 20s. Because some of the teams who need QBs may take BPA in round 1 then try to swoop back in for that 5th year of team control and also getting the project they prefer with their second choice.

So if McVay isn't sweet on any of these QBs as a project he and Les should have trade down offers. But if he is then maybe he just says fuck it and writes that top pick off to ensure he's got a guy behind Stafford learning. And this is where the Darts or Milroes make sense. Being taken by teams who have actual QBs so they don't need to suffer through their learning curve by losing games.

Now granted... Ideally in today's NFL the team finds a QB in the first round of the draft they can start from day one and gets 5 years of team control and budget QB play. And if he's great then of course you gotta sign him earlier. But that extra year of team control helps there too. But for a guy like McVay who has been dealing with contract BS with his starting QB for two years running... I'd say QB may be in play. In fact I'd say QB would be a perfect thing to do if you can find the right dude to sit behind Stafford.

One last element here is how long does it take Milroe or Dart to be ready. I mean look at Richardson for fuck's sake. In other words if the Rams are thinking QB at 26 one big time consideration may be whether the dude will be ready for spring 2026 to jump into the fire. And that's where we gotta trust McVay's eye for these guys, which I do. I've been right and wrong on QBs just like any other position so it's not like I think I know anything for sure with this BS. But I do think Dart's going to be a stud QB at this level. And I think Shough if he makes it to 26 may be the guy for McVay. And I also think McCord may be the best fit of all, so if McVay loves him and is telling you that he needs to have him where do you position to take him...
I know a lot is made of the getting back into the 1st for a QB so you can have the 5th year option but this class may not be good enough for the opportunity cost of the kind of capital you'd need to give up for that. Lot's of hubbub of teams wanting to maneuver in the 2nd for these QBs, seems to make more sense to me.

Additionally, if you're any good, you're signing an extension before the 5th year option is in play. Sure, teams have slightly more leverage with the extension but that's kinda it. 5th year option is a tool but it isn't an ends to a mean.