Offseason Roster Insanity

[Riverumbbq]

Higs isn't an issue in pay vs performance. He is inconsistent but not overpaid so I am fine adding to that room vice creating a hole that would be difficult to fill.

Jefferson should have trade value but we may need a cheap depth option and moving him we lose speed. Which as it stands we need more of not less.

I'm just not seeing the value in keeping Higbee any longer. Being up against the wall with our CAP, Higbee's $3.+ Mil in savings and a draft pick seems more appealing than just losing him outright for nothing as a 2024 free agent. Understandably, Hopkins has his detractors, but not starting him next year also likely means he's lost to free agency along with Hig's at the same time. If it were me, we'll be using a fairly high draft pick for a new TE this off-season, and we would promote Roger Carter to TE3 as our chief blocker in 12 Personnel.

Van Jefferson may only save about $1.M in CAP, but like Higbee, has some trade value, and he's another likely lost to free agency in 2024. The Rams have the vastly underused Tutu Atwell for speed, and there is no doubt in my mind that McSnead will opt to draft another WR. WR depth is of little concern to me at the moment, not with Kupp, Robinson, Atwell, Skowronek, Powell, Harris, McCutcheon & Trammel sitting around, plus a probable newly drafted player. And one unforgotten remaining distant possibility is OBj returning on a prove-it 1 year deal with big incentives. jmo.

 

[Ram Ts]

Brian Allen is the only one I see as a potential cut.
Higbee would too due to his injuries. But we do not have any depth to really Replace him. if we had any depth to replace him then sure.
Maybe Jefferson goes - but that would be more for obtaining a draft pick; than salary relief, etc.

I think next years team/roster will look a lot like entering this past year. Hopefully this time the injury bug is behind us. Additions will come from draft picks and available cheapos.

 

[jrry32]

The cap isn't a big deal. We'll continue kicking the can down the road as long as we're trying to compete. We'll restructure a handful of guys, open $20 million to $35 million in cap room, and then make the moves we need to make.

 

[Riverumbbq]

The cap isn't a big deal. We'll continue kicking the can down the road as long as we're trying to compete. We'll restructure a handful of guys, open $20 million to $35 million in cap room, and then make the moves we need to make.

So who are you restructuring (names please) and for what amounts ?

 

[FarNorth]

So the best place to start is the performance vs pay equation. Who's getting paid but delivering a steaming pile of excrement on the field?

You're raising what to me are unavoidable questions after a team has a season as bad as the did Rams this year. Even with the caveat that injuries were the most serious or immediate factor. And you correctly conclude that lots of contract options could be on the table.

Rams have some hard decisions to make. Can they make another title run with the same highly paid core of key players? And who might be healthier next year but are not getting younger? This is probably their most likely course.

If so, can they reload the supporting cast (starting with but not limited to the oline) with the relatively limited resources in the cap and draft which they have? Limited in the sense that they would have to cut some contracts to create more cap to add players, and that they are unlikely to get players in the draft who would be starting in their first year. (Yes, Jones was an exception). So who do they cut and how can they draft to make this happen?

Or do they start a major rebuild? Cutting some serious vets, and going with, say, Mayfield and younger players around him and on D?

Either way, imo McVay and Snead will face some tough choices.

 

[jrry32]

So who are you restructuring (names please) and for what amounts ?

Cooper Kupp, Aaron Donald, and Jalen Ramsey. By my count, you can open up $25 million to $30 million restructuring those three guys alone.

 

[Riverumbbq]

Cooper Kupp, Aaron Donald, and Jalen Ramsey. By my count, you can open up $25 million to $30 million restructuring those three guys alone.

Great, hasn't Donald already been restructured a couple of times ? I guess McVay & Snead can happily retire after saddling the team with such huge future debt.

 

[jrry32]

Great, hasn't Donald already been restructured a couple of times ? I guess McVay & Snead can happily retire after saddling the team with such huge future debt.

That's fine with me. We have an aging team that still has enough talent to compete. Might as well go for it while we can. We're going to have to take our lumps in the future either ways. Kick the can down the road, compete now, and then dump as much of that money as we can into a year where we're rebuilding, have our picks, and don't have the guys to compete.

 

[Allen2McVay]

So who are you restructuring (names please) and for what amounts ?

I share your reservations, doubts and concerns. Not trying to be negative ... just realistic.

The Rams have done a great job with cap maneuvers and restructures to add and retain talent. And, while the Rams can create 2023 cap space with contract restructures, so can most teams.

An Over-The-Cap Chart has been referenced which shows (without details) that the Rams can create $97M of cap space. That's nice. The same chart lists ten teams that can create more than $100M of cap space; and eleven more that can create between $90-$100M.

Another example is the impact of Voidable Years. Whitworth is on the books this season and in 2023 despite his retirement after 2021. Even assuming A'Shawn Robinson and Troy Hill leave via free agency this off-season, they will both have cap hits for the Rams in 2023. There are other examples ... and other teams are also doing voidable years.

 

[Riverumbbq]

Might as well go for it while we can. We're going to have to take our lumps in the future either ways. Kick the can down the road, compete now, and then dump as much of that money as we can into a year where we're rebuilding, have our picks, and don't have the guys to compete.

We've done that to a large extent already, but carrying the amount of debt you are talking about is astronomical. I happen to believe if healthy the Rams will be quite competitive next year, a few trade tweaks among our 'B' level players could get us back into CAP shape without going overboard imo.

 

[Merlin]

I happen to believe if healthy the Rams will be quite competitive next year, a few trade tweaks among our 'B' level players could get us back into CAP shape without going overboard imo.

True. But when have the Rams approached anything on safe mode under McVay. Going the careful or conservative route is simply not his style. He is a balls on the table, chips to the middle MFer.

 

[Allen2McVay]

We've done that to a large extent already, but carrying the amount of debt you are talking about is astronomical. I happen to believe if healthy the Rams will be quite competitive next year, a few trade tweaks among our 'B' level players could get us back into CAP shape without going overboard imo.

More Realistic Optimism!

I'm hoping for Magic but I will take sound and realistic off-season moves.

 

[Riverumbbq]

True. But when have the Rams approached anything on safe mode under McVay. Going the careful or conservative route is simply not his style. He is a balls on the table, chips to the middle MFer.

2022 was seemingly a 'conservative' year for McSnead. And going after Wagner after we lost the Von Miller sweepstakes was more of a trade-off. Robinson was a trade off for Woods, largely for CAP savings. The Rams didn't make any splash moves during the 2022 draft, choosing not to move up. We tried and failed on a few fronts during the trade deadline this season, but due to our many injuries, this was probably for the best.
I believe both Snead & McVay can do a lot of damage to their legacy if they create the kind of future debt some are advocating. jmo.

 

[Merlin]

2022 was seemingly a 'conservative' year for McSnead. And going after Wagner after we lost the Von Miller sweepstakes was more of a trade-off. Robinson was a trade off for Woods, largely for CAP savings. The Rams didn't make any splash moves during the 2022 draft, choosing not to move up. We tried and failed on a few fronts during the trade deadline this season, but due to our many injuries, this was probably for the best.
I believe both Snead & McVay can do a lot of damage to their legacy if they create the kind of future debt some are advocating. jmo.

Agreed. Which is why hard decisions must be made. There will be some restructuring going on for sure but outside of that there must be some accountability too I think.

 

[jrry32]

We've done that to a large extent already, but carrying the amount of debt you are talking about is astronomical. I happen to believe if healthy the Rams will be quite competitive next year, a few trade tweaks among our 'B' level players could get us back into CAP shape without going overboard imo.

Issue is that we have a bunch of guys who are going to be free agents. We cannot afford to lose all those starters and make no other significant moves. Just to re-sign a few of those guys, it's going to require us to either restructure contracts or cut current starters (creating more holes). Thus, the path forward is clear to me. Keep kicking the can down the road and playing for the present.

Carrying the amount of debt won't be a huge deal once our aging stars start to call it quits. We eat shit for a year, come away with a high draft pick, and then restart the process of building a team.

 

[Riverumbbq]

Issue is that we have a bunch of guys who are going to be free agents. We cannot afford to lose all those starters and make no other significant moves. Just to re-sign a few of those guys, it's going to require us to either restructure contracts or cut current starters (creating more holes). Thus, the path forward is clear to me. Keep kicking the can down the road and playing for the present.

Carrying the amount of debt won't be a huge deal once our aging stars start to call it quits. We eat shit for a year, come away with a high draft pick, and then restart the process of building a team.

Out of nearly 30 potential 2023 Rams free agents, I've counted 11 UFA's who I'd really like to see return, ... Mayfield, Gaines & Gay lead the guys who will come with significant raises. Nsekhe, Dixon, Powell, Aboushi, Brewer, Skura, Orzech, & Haley are my tier 2 guys which should be more than affordable. Mayfield may be a pipe dream, but he Gaines & Gay on multi-year contracts will be heavily discounted in the first year of backloaded contracts. As much as I'd like to bring Nick Scott back, I'm not seeing a realistic possibility at this time.
Creating enough CAP space for the above players and our Draft Class shouldn't be a burden which costs upwards of $30M more than we've already accumulated in future dead money hits. jmo.

 

[Kupped]

Here’s the question none of us has the answer to that I think is most important.

What’s the Rams ACTUAL budget for players?

They’ve gone cash over cap for years now.. including big signing bonuses last offseason…. So…. How much?

There’s NO WAY they don’t spend significantly in a combination of restructures… signing bonuses & dead money, imo.

It’s how they do it.

 

[jrry32]

Out of nearly 30 potential 2023 Rams free agents, I've counted 11 UFA's who I'd really like to see return, ... Mayfield, Gaines & Gay lead the guys who will come with significant raises. Nsekhe, Dixon, Powell, Aboushi, Brewer, Skura, Orzech, & Haley are my tier 2 guys which should be more than affordable. Mayfield may be a pipe dream, but he Gaines & Gay on multi-year contracts will be heavily discounted in the first year of backloaded contracts. As much as I'd like to bring Nick Scott back, I'm not seeing a realistic possibility at this time.
Creating enough CAP space for the above players and our Draft Class shouldn't be a burden which costs upwards of $30M more than we've already accumulated in future dead money hits. jmo.

The $30 million isn't just to keep a few guys. It's to continue chasing a ring. We currently have basically no cap room. That means to bring back players and sign a draft class, we have to either restructure some guys or cut some guys. Cutting guys opens more holes. And if we're restructuring players anyways, why wouldn't we go after a ring? I don't believe for a second that McVay and Snead are going to be afraid of future debt in pursuing another ring. We have a short window. We'd be fools not to make the most of it.

 

[Riverumbbq]

The $30 million isn't just to keep a few guys. It's to continue chasing a ring. We currently have basically no cap room. That means to bring back players and sign a draft class, we have to either restructure some guys or cut some guys. Cutting guys opens more holes. And if we're restructuring players anyways, why wouldn't we go after a ring? I don't believe for a second that McVay and Snead are going to be afraid of future debt in pursuing another ring. We have a short window. We'd be fools not to make the most of it.

It's easy enough to accept some small restructures going forward, but I doubt Snead wants to add enough debt to compromise what is bound to be more than a single season. The Rams have a future beyond Donald, Stafford, Ramsey, etc., we had the CAP room which allowed our team to carry on following our Super Bowl victory, we pushed even more long-term (dead money) debt onto Donald, Higbee, Noteboom, Allen, Floyd, Havenstein & A'Shawn Robinson, ... adding a great deal more to this with Donald, Ramsey & Kupp, two players which already are being considered as trade bait by some, I'm afraid this leaves me with a bad taste.
I'll leave this agreeing to disagree.

 

[jrry32]

It's easy enough to accept some small restructures going forward, but I doubt Snead wants to add enough debt to compromise what is bound to be more than a single season. The Rams have a future beyond Donald, Stafford, Ramsey, etc., we had the CAP room which allowed our team to carry on following our Super Bowl victory, we pushed even more long-term (dead money) debt onto Donald, Higbee, Noteboom, Allen, Floyd, Havenstein & A'Shawn Robinson, ... adding a great deal more to this with Donald, Ramsey & Kupp, two players which already are being considered as trade bait by some, I'm afraid this leaves me with a bad taste.
I'll leave this agreeing to disagree.

The Rams really don't have a future right now beyond those guys. The simple truth is that we're playing for the present. As I said before, do what we have to do to win while our window is open, dump the dead cap into a future year when the window closes, accept that we'll suck that year, take our lumps, and then come out of it with high draft picks and a strong cap situation. There's not much to be gained by making a halfhearted effort to win while our window is open in hopes of avoiding a bad year when it closes.