NFL is Fixed

[LesBaker]

It's nowhere near as many if it's just referees thinking that a certain team "should" win and bending the calls a certain way.

There are other options besides there being no problem at all, and full on game scripting.

Well there is a problem. Bad refs that are allowed to be bad with zero accountability, that's the problem.

And camera angles we see at home, that's a problem too.

 

[fearsomefour]

The whole idea is ridiculous because so many people would have to be involved that at least a few of them wold be cashing in with book deals.

To me, this whole thing goes to the mindset that has taken over society. Everyone is a victim.
This is a case of badly written rules more than anything. If the league wanted to fix games there would be a much cleaner and better way to do it than make calls then reverse them.
The biggest problem with conspiracies is the number of people that need to be involved to execute them and then maintain silence.
I still have never heard a sensible argument as to why the NFL would fix games. An MMA fight or a boxing match or a tennis match or any other marginal sport? Yes. The NFL, no.

 

[Boffo97]

Well there is a problem. Bad refs that are allowed to be bad with zero accountability, that's the problem.

And camera angles we see at home, that's a problem too.

So what's the problem with taking that next step into admitting that the ref's badness isn't neutral, and the bad calls aren't balancing out?

 

[LesBaker]

So what's the problem with taking that next step into admitting that the ref's badness isn't neutral, and the bad calls aren't balancing out?

What's to say they aren't balancing out?

Balancing out is way to hard to figure. If you look at every losing teams message boards their team is the one getting screwed more than any other team in the NFL, hell in the history of the NFL. And the refs are out to get them, and the NFL is fixed and all the rest.

You'd have to make a leap in logic to assume one team is getting dinged more than any other. The only thing that would be measurable is if the worst ref teams were on a lot of a few teams games and were blowing calls. It would a Sisyphean task to figure that out. It would require watching ever play and recording/noting every missed call and bad call then sorting it out by who made the call, against what player and what team the call went against and what team it favored. The once you had all that info how would you ever decipher it?

Ram43 if yer watching I did that for you!

 

[fearsomefour]

""The problem in the NFL is that too many officials are bad at their jobs, the rulebook is overly complex, and the league office stands by and does nothing about it.

This was a terrible call, and it turned out to be a season-ending call for the Lions. Detroit, to be blunt, got screwed.""

The first sentence sums it up well. Particularly the part about how complex and more importantly to me how many judgement calls are in the rules. No way around some of that, but, the rule book could be cleaned up a bit.

The second sentence is a major part of the problem. The Lions got stuck with a bad call, in my opinion it was probably PI. The thing that makes people heads explode is the reversal. I get that. However, the Lions followed that up with a 10 yard punt. They also kept a Dallas drive alive with 2 3rd down penalties that lead to a Dallas TD to take the lead instead of a tying FG (those were both good calls) and they got the ball back. Detroit put up six points after the first quarter I believe. Basically, after a fast start they didn't do squat and played undisciplined football on defense a good portion of the second half.
The reversal was weird and reversing it was in my opinion the wrong call....its not why Detroit lost.

 

[dhaab]

Was it a bad call? Hard to say since it could have been on either player and the contact made as the ball was arriving was coming from both parties.

Couldn't disagree more with this analysis. I've watched the play 10 times and it's CLEARLY a defensive pass interference on the linebacker, who isn't even playing the ball and doesn't have his head turned around, while he is face guarding and pushing Pettigrew. It's an easy call, but for some reason, the head official chose to waive off the call. The biggest problem I have with a decision like this is why the official doesn't even offer an explanation for why he's picking up the flag. That's ridiculous! At least tell the players, coaches and fans why you don't think it's a penalty anymore.

 

[Boffo97]

What's to say they aren't balancing out?

Balancing out is way to hard to figure. If you look at every losing teams message boards their team is the one getting screwed more than any other team in the NFL, hell in the history of the NFL. And the refs are out to get them, and the NFL is fixed and all the rest.

You'd have to make a leap in logic to assume one team is getting dinged more than any other. The only thing that would be measurable is if the worst ref teams were on a lot of a few teams games and were blowing calls. It would a Sisyphean task to figure that out. It would require watching ever play and recording/noting every missed call and bad call then sorting it out by who made the call, against what player and what team the call went against and what team it favored. The once you had all that info how would you ever decipher it?

Ram43 if yer watching I did that for you!

What's to say the calls aren't balancing out? Simple. I have eyes.

Every now and then the Rams get a bad call their way. Much, much more often, the bad call goes against them. Certain other teams, even teams I have nothing against, are very obviously getting the opposite treatment.

If you choose, no matter what, to believe that's bias, I suppose there's nothing I can say to convince you otherwise. That doesn't make it true though.

 

[dhaab]

To me, this whole thing goes to the mindset that has taken over society. Everyone is a victim.
This is a case of badly written rules more than anything. If the league wanted to fix games there would be a much cleaner and better way to do it than make calls then reverse them.
The biggest problem with conspiracies is the number of people that need to be involved to execute them and then maintain silence.
I still have never heard a sensible argument as to why the NFL would fix games. An MMA fight or a boxing match or a tennis match or any other marginal sport? Yes. The NFL, no.

Ah, the old "too many people would have to be in on it" argument again. I love this one. As if it would be SO difficult to have multiple people knowing about a fix without telling someone. Look through history, my friend. There are many different examples of numerous people being in on conspiracies who never said a word about them to anyone.

 

[Rmfnlt]

Put me in the group that does not believe the NFL is fixed; rather, that the refs are very bad and there's no accountability to weed out the bad ones.

Oh, and a revamp (simplification) of the rules would probably help too.

 

[CodeMonkey]

There's no way for us to settle this here sans any real proof beyond the missed/wrong calls that we see on the field. This sort of thing is difficult to prove, humans being fallible and all. And, the officials as yet have not been caught red handed (in the NFL at least). So it's sort of like proving the existence of Bigfoot at this point. I would like to point out that the potential people who could affect outcomes extends beyond the officials. Suppose, for example, playbooks or other intel are stolen. And, obviously a corrupted player could affect things. I would guess that those of us who see conspiracy view those who don't as naive and that those of us who think everything is above board see those who don't as gullible. There really isn't any point arguing about it.

 

[Faceplant]

This is the kind of DPI I hate seeing called. As a very small minority here have also pointed out: Offensive player grabs defensive players mask, making it impossible to turn for the ball. Then stops and falls backwards while the defender gets hit in the back with the ball.

I hate the cowboys.

I hated the DPI call when it was made more than I hate the cowboys.

In all the years I've watched football I've never seen this many people see a play differently than I did. I mean, we all are fans with a healthy knowledge of the game.

But geez? the way I saw this play puts me in about a 1% minority.

This is the opposite of homerism. This is hate fueled delusion.

I am more concerned with the lack of explanation. Good or bad, how do you just make a call disappear?? THAT is my issue. That nad the fact that Dez ran onto the field WITHOUT A HELMET to complain and didn't get a PF called. How did you feel about THAT non-call?

 

[badnews]

I find it odd that out of the people i talk to about this subject, it's almost only the big (die hard) fans of teams/nfl who don't believe that some games are fixed.

 

[thirteen28]

Some of the people here are trying to make this a binary choice, either simple incompetence by the officials OR completely scripted/fixed games. It's not one or the other, there is a continuum of possibilities between those two extremes.

One doesn't have to believe the game was completely fixed to believe controversial calls like the one yesterday goes beyond mere incompetence into something more deliberate.

 

[duckhunter]

FSF,

None taken.

Pro sports has been exempted from Anti-Trust laws for some time. Here's a good history and latest law review. 1200Pages. Sure Congress can and will look at minutia but essentially there is little oversight of pro sports, particulary, labor law and conduct of business.

http://lawreview.law.ucdavis.edu/issues/45/4/Articles/45-4_Feldman.pdf

Concerning conspiracy theories, there are tons of conspiracies been proven true, most recently.

This happens to be the biggest. I bring this one up because everything in the investment world is valued based on interest rates.Many stocks models have their valuations computed off interest rates. Obviously, Real estate and bond markets are driven by interest rates. The vast majority of derivatives are interest rate swaps or bets made on interest rate directions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libor_scandal

Oil and gold conspiracies have proven true when many from main stream media called many nuts for years.

The current big conspiracy theory being divulged is Central Bank trading in the Commodity markets. Is it the central banks of the various nations job to decide who the winners and losers are in the markets just as is it the NFLs job to decide who the winners and losers on the field of competition.

And when the conspiracy is proven true, there is never any retraction of those who were wrong.

And to be honest I don't know if Shoeless Joe threw it or not.

 

[LesBaker]

What's to say the calls aren't balancing out? Simple. I have eyes.

Every now and then the Rams get a bad call their way. Much, much more often, the bad call goes against them. Certain other teams, even teams I have nothing against, are very obviously getting the opposite treatment.

If you choose, no matter what, to believe that's bias, I suppose there's nothing I can say to convince you otherwise. That doesn't make it true though.

Well in the face of that mountain of evidence I concede, you've run circles around me with your logic.

 

[Alan]

Stranger still seeing monsters under his bed:
They know the manipulation was so obvious that the public saw it as manipulation, so now the NFL's army of sportwriters, who's livelihoods depend on NFL, are going to spin spin spin this away as just bad officiating, complicate rulebook.... blah blah blah... changes will be made. Watch for it.

Is there anything you don't see as a conspiracy?

Just kidding Stranger. Still, it has to be awful crowded under there.

 

[Ram Quixote]

This is NOT happening because of the NFL. It's happening because of the refs union. They are the ones that won't allow accountability, and "backups" to replace the guys who freak up constantly. The refs are terrible because their union allows them to be and the NFL was pressured by fans and the media to end the strike a couple of years ago. Had the two sides been allowed to actually negotiate the NFL may have gotten it's wish and the quality of the officiating might be increased.

I agree.

This is a case of badly written rules more than anything. If the league wanted to fix games there would be a much cleaner and better way to do it than make calls then reverse them.

Particularly the part about how complex and more importantly to me how many judgement calls are in the rules. No way around some of that, but, the rule book could be cleaned up a bit.

Oh, and a revamp (simplification) of the rules would probably help too.

Where I disagree is that NFL does in fact like the idea of judgement calls. It allows them to have that gray area between incompetence and competence. It makes the refs the bad guys for everything that's wrong with the NFL. It also allows influence, rather than fixing.

 

[Stranger]

Is there anything you don't see as a conspiracy?

Just kidding Stranger. Still, it has to be awful crowded under there.

Are there any sensory input produced by this enormous communication system that you don't believe? Yeah, I realize you're kidding around, but you're also exhibiting a frame of reference and reaction that's been fed to you. Why must I be labelled just because I don't believe the line being fed to me? Why should I trust the NFL Machine? What have they done to earn my trust?

By the way, I'm not hiding

 

[Alaskan Ram]

I am more concerned with the lack of explanation. Good or bad, how do you just make a call disappear?? THAT is my issue. That nad the fact that Dez ran onto the field WITHOUT A HELMET to complain and didn't get a PF called. How did you feel about THAT non-call?

I feel I hate the cowboys and Jerry Jones.
I feel I hate the officiating this year, and every year since the "Tuck" rule.
I feel without a doubt there is evidence to argue that professional sporting outcomes can be manipulated through enforcement or lack-thereof of rules.
I feel in every play of every game there exists potential for scrutiny to find an infraction called incorrectly or an infraction not called.
I feel I am an idiot for loving football as much as do.....(I feel I am in good company on this point)
I feel the initial call of DPI was grossly incorrect by the official who had the wrong angle.
I feel Dez is an idiot.

 

[Boffo97]

Well in the face of that mountain of evidence I concede, you've run circles around me with your logic.

Can't convince someone who won't be convinced no matter what. Of course, you'd very likely say the same about me.

So I guess we're at "agree to disagree" again.