New Defense - Ongoing season discussion

[Ellard80]

Did you read what I wrote? Or what Old School wrote?

yeah you said we got "some" pressure.

IF you mean we got some pressure in that like pressure like 2 or 3 times out of 45 drop backs... sure.

It was god awful.

It's been this way for a few games now.

 

[OldSchool]

yeah you said we got "some" pressure.

IF you mean we got some pressure in that like pressure like 2 or 3 times out of 45 drop backs... sure.

It was god awful.

It's been this way for a few games now.

You also don't just balls out pass rush a running QB like him. Or like Hurts from 3 games ago. Sure you can rush those guys like mad men but that opens up the QB runs which Hurts did and to an extent Allen though his was really just 2 big runs. We did much better the last couple of games with setting the edge and containing. Cook was 1.4 yards below his season average. The Rams D did their job they were never going to dominate this game that offense is too good. It's fine to judge the D harshly like you are but you have to acknowledge the opponent and what they're good at.

Have we gotten sacks? No but we did just beat a really damned good team. Celebrate it maybe?

 

[Ellard80]

You also don't just balls out pass rush a running QB like him. Or like Hurts from 3 games ago. Sure you can rush those guys like mad men but that opens up the QB runs which Hurts did and to an extent Allen though his was really just 2 big runs. We did much better the last couple of games with setting the edge and containing. Cook was 1.4 yards below his season average. The Rams D did their job they were never going to dominate this game that offense is too good. It's fine to judge the D harshly like you are but you have to acknowledge the opponent and what they're good at.

Have we gotten sacks? No but we did just be a really damned good team. Celebrate it maybe?

We didn't get any pressure on derek carr either - its been a thing lately.

It concerns me and I'ts logical to be concerned.

I'm still celebrating with some beers right now.

 

[OldSchool]

We didn't get any pressure on derek carr either - its been a thing lately.

It concerns me and I'ts logical to be concerned.

I'm still celebrating with some beers right now.

It's logical to understand your opponent and realize we aren't going to get sacks on every QB or have great games rushing the passer. That's logical.
Allen has been sacked 13 times on almost 400 passing attempts this year. You're not going to sack that guy a lot with his mobility and their OL.
Same exact thing as with Hurts.
We're a young defensive front sorry they're not world beaters every week for you. I felt they played good the last 2 games especially after getting gashed by Hurts and Barkley.

 

[Merlin]

Bills have a ridiculous offense. And Allen is a freak at QB who changes the game. Honestly Allen could have hurt us much worse on the ground, for some reason he tried to throw the ball unsuccessfully on multiple occasions when he could have killed us running it. Of course part of that is he doesn't want to get hurt, which is smart, but we dodged a serious bullet today with the rush.

When you play a QB of Allen's quality the key is not pressure. It is containment. And honestly the Rams DL still has a ton to learn there. They continuously ran themselves out of their lanes trying to get pressure, and gave him escape options. It is important they learn from this shit.

Going forward the Rams have a serious problem with Lake and his usage. I think Lake should be transitioned to the pairing. And the star role needs to be a corner. Both outside hash spots and the slot must be corners.

Williams wasn't that terrible today. He was at least in position, where the coach can say "ok now you gotta trust your instincts and get that head around to focus on the ball." He just didn't trust himself down the sideline where he did the double take with his head.

For the final stretch of games I am wondering where they will play Forbes. Our top three corners on the field should be Williams, Durant, and Forbes. Question is who plays where.

 

[OldSchool]

Bills have a ridiculous offense. And Allen is a freak at QB who changes the game. Honestly Allen could have hurt us much worse on the ground, for some reason he tried to throw the ball unsuccessfully on multiple occasions when he could have killed us running it. Of course part of that is he doesn't want to get hurt, which is smart, but we dodged a serious bullet today with the rush.

When you play a QB of Allen's quality the key is not pressure. It is containment. And honestly the Rams DL still has a ton to learn there. They continuously ran themselves out of their lanes trying to get pressure, and gave him escape options. It is important they learn from this shit.

Going forward the Rams have a serious problem with Lake and his usage. I think Lake should be transitioned to the pairing. And the star role needs to be a corner. Both outside hash spots and the slot must be corners.

Williams wasn't that terrible today. He was at least in position, where the coach can say "ok now you gotta trust your instincts and get that head around to focus on the ball." He just didn't trust himself down the sideline where he did the double take with his head.

For the final stretch of games I am wondering where they will play Forbes. Our top three corners on the field should be Williams, Durant, and Forbes. Question is who plays where.

We'll have to agree to disagree on Williams today. He was several yards behind his WR on at least one of the TD's and out of position on a couple big passes. But we can discuss that elsewhere since this is the celebration thread

edit

LOL OH SHIT

This is the right thread hahaha

 

[Merlin]

We'll have to agree to disagree on Williams today. He was several yards behind his WR on at least one of the TD's and out of position on a couple big passes. But we can discuss that elsewhere since this is the celebration thread

edit

LOL OH SHIT

This is the right thread hahaha

I don't think Williams was perfect by any stretch. But the Bills are a tough draw man. Allen drops dimes. Allen buys time where corners need to cover longer. And the Bills wideouts are well coached and execute.

Also if we had better safeties Williams and the rest of the corners might get some help now and then. I was shocked actually when Kinchens got in on that deep ball, though had it not been underthrown it would have been a TD.

 

[OldSchool]

I don't think Williams was perfect by any stretch. But the Bills are a tough draw man. Allen drops dimes. Allen buys time where corners need to cover longer. And the Bills wideouts are well coached and execute.

Also if we had better safeties Williams and the rest of the corners might get some help now and then. I was shocked actually when Kinchens got in on that deep ball, though had it not been underthrown it would have been a TD.

Yeah I get that with Allen and I said multiple times in the chat that I couldn't be made at the DB for coverage. But I do remember too many, my possibly over rating it, times he was not close in coverage. He wasn't the only one but he was the worst. I think Durant started off bad but came on well at the end.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

yeah you said we got "some" pressure.

IF you mean we got some pressure in that like pressure like 2 or 3 times out of 45 drop backs... sure.

It was god awful.

It's been this way for a few games now.

When teams game plan to get rid of the ball quickly it’s difficult to get pressure on a QB.

With the Rams pass rush, teams are playing the quick game. The Bills didn’t do that but the Saints and a few others used that game plan.

 

[Merlin]

Yeah I get that with Allen and I said multiple times in the chat that I couldn't be made at the DB for coverage. But I do remember too many, my possibly over rating it, times he was not close in coverage. He wasn't the only one but he was the worst. I think Durant started off bad but came on well at the end.

We have a bad secondary. The entire unit fucking sucks. But going forward we are going to need Williams to build on the things he did do well. We need him.

I think the important transition ahead is weeding Lake out of the coverage role dependency this defense was built on this season. He is a captain and I don't know what that looks like, but the dude is incapable of being in position vs any draw that has any sort of athleticism. He's ok across the middle, taking on the TE, snuffing out crossers here and there. So he could be the box role guy in the pairing and all that. But I think they need to transition him out of coverage as much as possible.

I know it's not gonna get much better. I know Forbes even if he carves out a role will be inconsistent too. But getting the guys who have the athleticism to be in position is where we gotta get first. Then work on the details from there. Lake far too often is chasing with zero chance to disrupt the catch point. It is time to move away from that I think.

 

[Ellard80]

You also don't just balls out pass rush a running QB like him. Or like Hurts from 3 games ago. Sure you can rush those guys like mad men but that opens up the QB runs which Hurts did and to an extent Allen though his was really just 2 big runs. We did much better the last couple of games with setting the edge and containing. Cook was 1.4 yards below his season average. The Rams D did their job they were never going to dominate this game that offense is too good. It's fine to judge the D harshly like you are but you have to acknowledge the opponent and what they're good at.

Have we gotten sacks? No but we did just beat a really damned good team. Celebrate it maybe?

yeah i get the don't balls out against a running QB.

But we aren't containing the run of the running qb either.

 

[OldSchool]

yeah i get the don't balls out against a running QB.

But we aren't containing the run of the running qb either.

As I said we did pretty good against Allen aside from 2 runs IMO. We did good against Hill. That's the 2 games since we were terrible containing and setting an edge against Philly. It's a young D they aren't going to be world beaters all the time especially with the deficiencies at ILB and CB. And we literally just played 2 of the best 4 or 5 teams in the game.

 

[OldSchool]

We have a bad secondary. The entire unit fucking sucks. But going forward we are going to need Williams to build on the things he did do well. We need him.

I think the important transition ahead is weeding Lake out of the coverage role dependency this defense was built on this season. He is a captain and I don't know what that looks like, but the dude is incapable of being in position vs any draw that has any sort of athleticism. He's ok across the middle, taking on the TE, snuffing out crossers here and there. So he could be the box role guy in the pairing and all that. But I think they need to transition him out of coverage as much as possible.

I know it's not gonna get much better. I know Forbes even if he carves out a role will be inconsistent too. But getting the guys who have the athleticism to be in position is where we gotta get first. Then work on the details from there. Lake far too often is chasing with zero chance to disrupt the catch point. It is time to move away from that I think.

Yeah Lake to me needs to be in the box abusing an RB I don't like seeing him in coverage. Kurl and Kinchens while not great are much better in coverage than Lake.

I really hope Forbes comes out swinging next week, I didn't expect him to play this week, because we could really use it.

 

[Kupped]

I guess I don't think Lake was so bad.. was an absolutely perfect throw on the TD and Lake.. a safety.. was tight on a WR. But maybe I'm being too generous.
Rams decided not to blitz, it seems.. and I get it. You need another man in contain.. and non of your corners are good enough to really play press coverage.
Secondary is just not good. But Corners are flat-out bad.

 

[Kupped]

The Bills offense is a freaking machine.... they've only put up under 30 twice this year.

I'm not happy with the 42 points given up.. but I just don't know if the defense is bad.. or if the Bills are that good on offense right now. They put up 35 in the freaking snow last week. Jeez.

 

[Steve808]

As I said we did pretty good against Allen aside from 2 runs IMO. We did good against Hill. That's the 2 games since we were terrible containing and setting an edge against Philly. It's a young D they aren't going to be world beaters all the time especially with the deficiencies at ILB and CB. And we literally just played 2 of the best 4 or 5 teams in the game.

The Rams shut down James Cook as well. He torched the whiners last week. Not that I mind.

 

[Merlin]

I guess I don't think Lake was so bad.. was an absolutely perfect throw on the TD and Lake.. a safety.. was tight on a WR. But maybe I'm being too generous.

I think you are most certainly being too generous.

Lake has things he can do in coverage, like shadow a TE or cover the occasional crosser underneath. But the Rams have put too much on him in coverage. QBs know that if they see him on a wideout they can put up a 50/50 ball no probs because his back will be to the throw and there will be a yard or more separation.

Rams need to fix this. They need to rework shit so the scheme has less opportunity for beating Lake.

 

[Kupped]

I think you are most certainly being too generous.

Lake has things he can do in coverage, like shadow a TE or cover the occasional crosser underneath. But the Rams have put too much on him in coverage. QBs know that if they see him on a wideout they can put up a 50/50 ball no probs because his back will be to the throw and there will be a yard or more separation.

Rams need to fix this. They need to rework shit so the scheme has less opportunity for beating Lake.

I guess I need to focus a little more on him.

I'm hyper-focused on how bad the corners are right now, I guess. I mean.. at least Lake is close to the guys he's supposed to be covering.

 

[Steve808]

I guess I need to focus a little more on him.

I'm hyper-focused on how bad the corners are right now, I guess. I mean.. at least Lake is close to the guys he's supposed to be covering.

Couple of flags were pretty ticky tacky against the Rams. Makes me wonder if the refs were supposed to let the Bills win?

I don't have enough time to list all the bad calls I saw.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

We have a bad secondary. The entire unit fucking sucks. But going forward we are going to need Williams to build on the things he did do well. We need him.

I think the important transition ahead is weeding Lake out of the coverage role dependency this defense was built on this season. He is a captain and I don't know what that looks like, but the dude is incapable of being in position vs any draw that has any sort of athleticism. He's ok across the middle, taking on the TE, snuffing out crossers here and there. So he could be the box role guy in the pairing and all that. But I think they need to transition him out of coverage as much as possible.

I know it's not gonna get much better. I know Forbes even if he carves out a role will be inconsistent too. But getting the guys who have the athleticism to be in position is where we gotta get first. Then work on the details from there. Lake far too often is chasing with zero chance to disrupt the catch point. It is time to move away from that I think.

That’s where it was great to have an athletic corner playing the Star. But, even Ramsey got burned sometimes. It seems like a tall order to fix the secondary in one offseason, much less finding a guy who can take on all of the responsibilities of the Star position.

yeah i get the don't balls out against a running QB.

But we aren't containing the run of the running qb either.

If the Rams had corners that were good in man coverage, that would free up a linebacker to spy a running QB. But they’d need a faster, more athletic linebacker to stay with a running QB like Allen.