Jalen Ramsey traded to Pittsburgh

[den-the-coach]

Looks like somebody has been reading ROD:
View attachment 71237

Jake lives about 15 minutes from me so I’ll allow it.

 

[dang]

Yup, I dont know how there can be any confusion, like you said it's been repeated several times.
What is complicated is how the option bonus, and contract structure determine the cap hit in 2025

Well my friend let me be brutally honest. Whenever the topic of how much Ramsey would cost a team trading for him, you seem to emphasize the $1.255m salary he would be due as if that is all a team would be saddled with. So I’m going with a $20m 2025 price tag unless the Fins eat s good chunk of that $19m bonus.

 

[dieterbrock]

Well my friend let me be brutally honest. Whenever the topic of how much Ramsey would cost a team trading for him, you seem to emphasize the $1.255m salary he would be due as if that is all a team would be saddled with. So I’m going with a $20m 2025 price tag unless the Fins eat s good chunk of that $19m bonus.

Well that’s utterly false, so either you haven’t read anything I’ve posted or are just trying to be argumentative.
I’ve only brought up the salary in response to folks asking about it.
I’ve broken down the contract many times in this thread and choosing to lump the salary and option bonus in one bucket is just lazy at best, ignorant at worst.

 

[dieterbrock]

His salary for '25 is only 1.25 mill
He is set to receive an "option bonus" of 19 mill, which I believe is the hangup in a trade scenario
The contract calls for (non guaranteed) option bonus of 8 & 9 mill in '26 & '27
In the current contract they are pro-rating the option bonus over 7 years, 4 contract & 3 void
But when a player is traded the void years are wiped out and the team has to take the hit on future dead money
So I dont know how that affects the contract, because it is a little complicated. It's not so simple as to paying 5 mill of a 10 mill salary.
And again, Miami does not have to trade him. They arent obligated to do so just because he wants out

Just quoting as to not have to type again.
The option bonus and contract format is complicated and makes his cap number hard to determine.

 

[Flipper]

Just quoting as to not have to type again.
The option bonus and contract format is complicated and makes his cap number hard to determine.

Not to be argumentative, but it is not that complicated.

The bonus can and usually is prorated 5 years. Yes, it doesn’t have to be, but it almost always is. If that is the case, the $19M divided by 5 gives 3.8 and add the 1.255 and you have a $5M cap hit for an acquiring team that prorates the bonus the maximum.

and when people are trying to figure out shared payments between rams/dolphins, the $20M round number is fine, because that is what would be shared in some capacity.

 

[dieterbrock]

Not to be argumentative, but it is not that complicated.

The bonus can and usually is prorated 5 years. Yes, it doesn’t have to be, but it almost always is. If that is the case, the $19M divided by 5 gives 3.8 and add the 1.255 and you have a $5M cap hit for an acquiring team that prorates the bonus the maximum.

and when people are trying to figure out shared payments between rams/dolphins, the $20M round number is fine, because that is what would be shared in some capacity.

That’s not true though. You inherit the contract
Miami is paying a pro-rate on 35 mill of option bonuses
The Rams inherit the contract but not the void years
It is complicated

 

[Flipper]

That’s not true though. You inherit the contract
Miami is paying a pro-rate on 35 mill of option bonuses
The Rams inherit the contract but not the void years
It is complicated

Not at all. All roster, restructure, signing, and option bonuses already paid belong entirely to Miami. that is why the June 1st date was important because it allows them to split the catch ups to next season.

a new team is only responsible for unpaid bonuses and salaries and they can choose how to prorate them.

you may or may not take my word for it, but for other readers, that is how it works and it is very straight forward.

 

[Merlin]

Jake's my illegitimate love child lives about 15 minutes from me so I’ll allow it.

FIFY.

 

[snackdaddy]

Jake lives about 15 minutes from me so I’ll allow it.

Someone should tell him a diet consisting of donuts and tater tots are unhealthy.

 

[den-the-coach]

Someone should tell him a diet consisting of donuts and tater tots are unhealthy.

 

[den-the-coach]

FIFY.

You Seamen are all alike.

 

[dang]

It is all over this thread, but some people confuse the issue. This is NOT cap hit for the Dolphins or acquiring team, just cash due for the 2025 season. Two components: salary and bonus. Both fully guaranteed.

the salary is $1.255M and the bonus is $19M due week 1. any team acquiring Ramsey before week 1 would be obligated for both unless arrangements are made otherwise.

I apologize for not recognizing this post before. This clearly states my understanding of the financial obligation for a straight up trade for Ramsey. Disregard any of my ramblings beyond this post.

 

[dieterbrock]

Not at all. All roster, restructure, signing, and option bonuses already paid belong entirely to Miami. that is why the June 1st date was important because it allows them to split the catch ups to next season.

a new team is only responsible for unpaid bonuses and salaries and they can choose how to prorate them.

you may or may not take my word for it, but for other readers, that is how it works and it is very straight forward.

You are partially correct.
Any monies previously paid to Ramsey is due once he is traded or cut. That is dead money being written off.
What you are not correct is that his contract is not changed once traded.
The dead money Miami is paying is still partly from his previous contract.
His new extension is just actually beginning this year. The is a seperate pro-rate for his “option” bonus that is due in ‘25, ‘26 & ‘27 to the sum of 36-37 mill with 19 mill paid out at beginning of week 1. Miami is NOT responsible for any of that if he is traded before week 1.
Whichever team trades for Ramsey inherits the entire contract going forward. Including those “option” bonuses.
So it is complicated as the bonus was contracted to be pro-rated over the term of the deal which included void years. Those void years are eliminated so how the team elects to prorate the bonus has to be approved by the NFL
It is complicated because no team wants to take him on with potentially a 15-20 mill cap hit this year.

 

[hotanez]

You are partially correct.
Any monies previously paid to Ramsey is due once he is traded or cut. That is dead money being written off.
What you are not correct is that his contract is not changed once traded.
The dead money Miami is paying is still partly from his previous contract.
His new extension is just actually beginning this year. The is a seperate pro-rate for his “option” bonus that is due in ‘25, ‘26 & ‘27 to the sum of 36-37 mill with 19 mill paid out at beginning of week 1. Miami is NOT responsible for any of that if he is traded before week 1.
Whichever team trades for Ramsey inherits the entire contract going forward. Including those “option” bonuses.
So it is complicated as the bonus was contracted to be pro-rated over the term of the deal which included void years. Those void years are eliminated so how the team elects to prorate the bonus has to be approved by the NFL
It is complicated because no team wants to take him on with potentially a 15-20 mill cap hit this year.

that's a ton of cash for a player who isn't a lock down CB anymore, still a good player but not worth that amount of cash IMO.

 

[Flipper]

You are partially correct.
Any monies previously paid to Ramsey is due once he is traded or cut. That is dead money being written off.
What you are not correct is that his contract is not changed once traded.
The dead money Miami is paying is still partly from his previous contract.

huh? You are confusing terms. The money is not being ‘written off’ it has been paid and is being accounted for. This is accounting versus cash flow. They allow amortizing it for five years if the player is on the team, but if traded or released it is accelerated.

‘’what the heck is ‘dead money’? That makes no sense. But yes, the accounting for bonuses paid can carry over multiple contracts.

but the contracts are not changed. The new team acquires the existing contract and the old team has to change their accounting for accelerated void years. This has nothing to do with the new team.

His new extension is just actually beginning this year. The is a seperate pro-rate for his “option” bonus that is due in ‘25, ‘26 & ‘27 to the sum of 36-37 mill with 19 mill paid out at beginning of week 1. Miami is NOT responsible for any of that if he is traded before week 1.
Whichever team trades for Ramsey inherits the entire contract going forward. Including those “option” bonuses.

We are in full agreement with all of the above.

So it is complicated as the bonus was contracted to be pro-rated over the term of the deal which included void years. Those void years are eliminated so how the team elects to prorate the bonus has to be approved by the NFL
It is complicated because no team wants to take him on with potentially a 15-20 mill cap hit this year.

Stop saying it is complicated. It is not complicated. You think it is because you do not understand what you are saying. Now, if you can cite where you think you learned that, for example, the $19M due week one for some reason in your mind cannot be amortized as the Rams choose, then please do so. But I believe no choice has to be made on that until a bonus has been paid.

in other words, if I am understanding you correctly, you believe that the contract as written specifies ahead of time the amortization and when traded, you believe it is like the old bonuses for the old team and all the bonuses get accelerated for the new team. Before they are paid? Crazy. Am I understanding you correctly?

 

[dieterbrock]

Stop saying it is complicated. It is not complicated

Pay attention please.
It is more complicated than if they were paying off salary
You cant be that thick headed.
If his salary was 10 million and they were paying 5 million of it, that is less complicated than them contributing 5 million towards a salary of 1.25 million plus a bonus that is already amortized in the contract combined with the additional 2 years.
That has been my point and while I get it that you wont understand the contract, but at the very least have to admit that my point is valid.
Alas, for someone who began a conversation with "not trying to be argumentative" you sure are doing a good job of it

 

[Flipper]

Pay attention please.
It is more complicated than if they were paying off salary
You cant be that thick headed.
If his salary was 10 million and they were paying 5 million of it, that is less complicated than them contributing 5 million towards a salary of 1.25 million plus a bonus that is already amortized in the contract combined with the additional 2 years.
That has been my point and while I get it that you wont understand the contract, but at the very least have to admit that my point is valid.
Alas, for someone who began a conversation with "not trying to be argumentative" you sure are doing a good job of it

Yes, one of us missing something and one of us is being thick headed. We’ll let God decide.

i now see our point of contention. You think the amortization of unpaid bonuses are locked in When the contract is signed. I think they are decided after paid. So the already paid bonuses belong entirely to Miami. I think we have agreed on that. So take the $19M due week one which has not been paid. You think that amortization is locked in. I think it is decided by a team after paid.

so, in my view, pretty simple for example, for all parties to agree to change half of the option bonus to a restructure bonus that Miami pays and accounts for leaving the rams with a $9.5M bonus instead of $19 that they can choose to account for all at once or spread out up to 5 years for accounting.

see, not complicated.

you really need to focus in on addressing why you believe amortizing is locked in before it is paid. I guess it is possible but I look at contracts pretty closely and that has never seemed the case. Can you find where you were told this?

again, I do not - and you, apparently do - believe that any UNPAID bonuses are already locked into some accounting structure. OTC or spotrac may show that for visualization and on assumptions, but it is not locked in UNTIL PAID.

 

[dieterbrock]

Yes, one of us missing something and one of us is being thick headed. We’ll let God decide.

i now see our point of contention. You think the amortization of unpaid bonuses are locked in When the contract is signed. I think they are decided after paid. So the already paid bonuses belong entirely to Miami. I think we have agreed on that. So take the $19M due week one which has not been paid. You think that amortization is locked in. I think it is decided by a team after paid.

so, in my view, pretty simple for example, for all parties to agree to change half of the option bonus to a restructure bonus that Miami pays and accounts for leaving the rams with a $9.5M bonus instead of $19 that they can choose to account for all at once or spread out up to 5 years for accounting.

see, not complicated.

you really need to focus in on addressing why you believe amortizing is locked in before it is paid. I guess it is possible but I look at contracts pretty closely and that has never seemed the case. Can you find where you were told this?

again, I do not - and you, apparently do - believe that any UNPAID bonuses are already locked into some accounting structure. OTC or spotrac may show that for visualization and on assumptions, but it is not locked in UNTIL PAID.

Its not an opinion, its a contract
You keep confusing money that has been paid out to money that is being paid in future
Teams can decide how long to amortize bonuses when they determine the contract terms. The contract is already in place and whether it is Miami, or the team they trade to, they abide by the terms as written.
These terms cant be changed unless either a simple re-structure (doesnt need player approval) or a full re-structure (needs player approval) and approved by NFL/ The trading team CANT just add void years.
So again, this isnt an argument of opinion its how NFL contracts work.
And it DOES make it more complicated than by just working with an upcoming salary, which is the only point I made.

 

[Neil039]

 

[Corbin]