Yes, I'm always dead-wrong and you're always right. This is like the 10th time you made this sort of comment on one of my posts. So, big boy, how many trillions are spent on advertising globally, and how do those budgets impact the minds of the public? We're talking about public behavior, right? Isn't that the point of this? And we're talking about what influences public behavior, right? So, does it really matter whether it's $20T or $10T globally spent on advertising? The point is human behavior is significantly impacted by corporate advertising, including ads pushed thru TV while broadcasting NFL games. Hence, the NFL is complicit in the mind-shaping that goes on thru this massive advertisting-machine.
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Stats have proven that nfl players commit violent crimes at a lower rate than the general population you can find the info online easily
His point about curing societies ills is obvious, nothing the sports world does will impact criminal behavior.
spare me the snarky remarks you're out of your depth
so, there is no relationship between public behavior and public sensory inputs? Is that your instituionalized academic positivist response, once again?
more snark from the institutionalized mind, unaccepting of anything outside that perfect world. Oh wait, but BF Skinner was an academic... Did you just miss him entirely?
The majority of companies spend between 3-7 percent of revenues on marketing, I would guess that there are very, very, very few in the entire world that could afford to spend 30 percent, they would have to have margins that are incredibly high. You can find that out with a simple search.
As far as the NFL changing domestic violence Al Micheals made a point and I think he is correct. They can spend every cent they have and it won't stop someone from beating up their wife or girlfriend. Nobody who is a batterer is going to ball up their fist then unclench it because of something the NFL said or did. It's a fantasy to think that. If it were the case we could eliminate ALL crime by that method.
Now on to something else........
You can say whatever you want and hurl insults all day, you're still out of your depth and posting fallacies. I disagree with a lot of what you say because sometimes you're misinformed and too busy telling people like me that they are blinded while you can see. The fact is on these two topics you not only don't have any idea what your talking about you're making guesses and moving the goal posts. Which is not uncommon for you.
You don't like it when people challenge you and disagree with you and you have this image of yourself as some open minded clear and bright thinker when the reality is you have a very closed mind, possibly the most closed mind of any poster I read here. You assume you have the answer to everything and there is a conspiracy related to each and every event. That's fine, think that way it's your right to do so. But don't you dare insult me because I don't agree with it. You haven't earned that right and likely never, ever will.
As far as the NFL changing domestic violence Al Micheals made a point and I think he is correct. They can spend every cent they have and it won't stop someone from beating up their wife or girlfriend. Nobody who is a batterer is going to ball up their fist then unclench it because of something the NFL said or did. It's a fantasy to think that. If it were the case we could eliminate ALL crime by that method.
Now on to something else........
You can say whatever you want and hurl insults all day, you're still out of your depth and posting fallacies. I disagree with a lot of what you say because sometimes you're misinformed and too busy telling people like me that they are blinded while you can see. The fact is on these two topics you not only don't have any idea what your talking about you're making guesses and moving the goal posts. Which is not uncommon for you.
You don't like it when people challenge you and disagree with you and you have this image of yourself as some open minded clear and bright thinker when the reality is you have a very closed mind, possibly the most closed mind of any poster I read here. You assume you have the answer to everything and there is a conspiracy related to each and every event. That's fine, think that way it's your right to do so. But don't you dare insult me because I don't agree with it. You haven't earned that right and likely never, ever will.
I've never seen anyone hurl more insults on this forum than you. I believe this is actually the first time I've chosen to retaliat wth behavior that emulates your own. This is not the first time you've tried to tell me that I'm out of my depth, or don't know what I am talking about. This is a frequent occurrence. I've grown tired of your limited cognitive abiliities, and your limited understanding of how things work.
Are you going to try to seriously argue against all the work of behaviorial pyschologist's research here? I mean, it is beyond laughable. The NFL broacasts 1,000's of hours of commercials each season that promote alcohold, degrade women and their role in soceity, and promote childish behavior by men. All the NFL has to do is stop airing the commercials that they currently air, and public behavior will change.
Al Michaels is a moron, a liar and a paid schill. He supports the NFL's marketing machine and the corporate madison avenue advertisers who for decades have promoted bad behavior in the public. Now he's trying to claim that there is nothing that the NFl can do about this? And you support this jibberish, ignore decades of peer reviewed research, and then tell me, once again, that I am some how out of my depth.
I'm putting you on my ignore list, as I'm disgusted by you, and many of your posts. I cringe when I read them, even when I'm not part of the conversation. You're highly programmed, and I want nothing to do with it anymore.
I'm going to respectfully disagree with you on this Les. I think the NFL can impact some of these guys who might be walking a line. The threat of losing riches and fame is a pretty big one and if the NFL gets serious about it's stance against violence some of these guys will loose everything and be examples along the way. It might not be an instant impact but I think in time the NFL could change the mentality of it's players enough to make a difference and some of the guys who might have gone the wrong way will take a different path. Obviously the NFL can't change the world but they can impact players within there circle of influence and then these players can in turn spread that impact to the youth that idolizes them.
I've been posting with Les for 12+ years. I think if you didn't get so personally involved you'd see he's a really decent guy. It's ok to not agree and still get along.
Players maybe, I agree shitloads of dollars in lost salary will make guys think twice and we see that with guys who fail a drug test but don't fail another. When they don't get that game check it makes a reasonable person put down the bong lol.
This was meant more about society versus the players, and the idea that the league can change societies behaviors through setting examples and marketing dollars.
Time out! 15 yards for getting too personal. Please stop! We have a wonderful device here called the ignore function. Some of you need to try it out. Thanks.
no, it's about a kind of programming that rubs me the wrong way. I find it extremely difficult to witness this kind of thinking, especially when it it attached to hubris.
If you followed the recent history of this country, this isn't a generalization at all. Corporations run this country now and have lobbyists and TONS of money to make sure things are legislated their way. If you don't see this, then you're not paying attention.
done. Thx.
Time out! 15 yards for getting too personal. Please stop! We have a wonderful device here called the ignore function. Some of you need to try it out. Thanks.
I realize you think that and are certain I "haven't been paying attention",fact is Apple has been targeted by the Justice dept ,largely because they aren't big political contributors and haven't bought the government off, certainly some corporations are politically active and do sway legislation but to proport unions have no influence in how our government acts, environmental groups have no influence ,civil rights groups hold no sway, gender policy groups have no input, that would be an example of not paying attention IMO. But ya know I wouldn't dream of saying YOU weren't paying attention,just that you and I may pay attention to different things .
Yes the NFL would ante up a bunch to make this trouble go away, I think most people would,but there are few entities I know of that tries to be more socially conscious than the NFL ,BTW I do agree we don't need to get into politics on a football message board , K?
I would argue that this is just PR.
Anyway, just demand that corporate advertisers broadcast more responsbile commercials during NFL events, and the NFL could make a significant impact in their fanbase. Until that happens, I see them as duplicitious.
And I would "argue" that at some point the original assumption that the NFL owes it ,has some extraordinary responsibility to do as you say , becomes an agenda of it's own and further could be held to be dare we say "programmed "?
In the world of entertainment, and is this anything else ? I think the NFL does a better job of policing the behavior of it's entertainers than the other mediums, i.e. film, music .
You say they should "demand" by what authority ? At what point do you consider that they are responsible as a profit entity more than the other entities ,why go after the league instead of directly at the people you want coerced into the behavior you desire ,isn't that an example of an assumption? Aren't assumptions a result of some form of personal "programming".
POINT? we are all to some degree programmed man, you are a bright guy ,you read and believe a lot of what you read based on more than just empirical evidence ,some even most of what you believe is based upon your assumptive world, as is mine BTW,I think we all need to recognize this about ourselves and be a little less judgmental, lest we lapse into our own duplicity .
I don't in any way doubt that a great deal of the leagues commitment to social issues is PR , but then again most altruism is about ego anyway ,we can't all be Mother Theresa , if you are her equal , God Bless you, I'm not...her equal that is.
Very quick response, as I gotta run out the door with the kiddies.
Yes, we're all programmed. Totally agree. But most don't recognize that, so can't see their own programming let alone others. Anyway, we're in agreement here
As to demanding commercials that don't denegrade women or stupid male behavior or irresponsible alcoholic consumption, well, that's the public's responsibility. We do own the airways, which are public, but have been usurped by private interests. So, it's our own responsibility, and our own fault.
And yes, the NFL doesn't have any responsbiliity to anyone other than it's owners. I get this. I understand it, and don't have a problem with it. So, they don't give a shit who pays for advertising, or what they advertise, unless it hurts their own pockets. Everything else they do is just show to appease the public to keep them from withdrawing their financial support. The supposed socially conscious support activtives, the fines of players, player suppensions, etc. It's all part of the show to maximize profits.
Finally, yes, our understanding of the world is based upon our own perceptions. We're all unique. That's the beauty of organic systems. I just give bent out of shape when people are unable to see beyond "the show", the thin veil of lies and perception shaping. We believe the reality that's displayed on TV sets and computer screens, instead of asking ourselves about the motivations that lie behind these stories. Worse yet, when someone tries to speculate about what might be behind 'the show', their blasted in a negative light and attempting to dream-up falsities. We've been trained to police ourselves, such that speculation beyond the "Official" story line is seen as unacceptable, and is therefore squashed by social pressure.