Yep, and while i have zero facts to back it up, it seems like injuries have actually INCREASED.
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I don't think you guys paid ANY ATTENTION to this article. At all.
Boxing used to be as much if not much more popular on a percentage basis than Football. Other than the Super Bowl, big fights would shut the country down as they were on the radio and Friday night was "fight night" all across the country.
The point is that things CAN change. Heck, in the 20s through the 70s, baseball was the predominant sport. Basketball became the most popular sport by the mid 80s and 90s, then football took over.
The NFL's current dominance is by no means guaranteed. It's a relatively new phenomenon and the sheer VOLUME of things that are building that could drive groups of people away is growing. Will it drive hardcore fans away? No. Then again, hardcore fight fans never left boxing, baseball or basketball, either. It's the fringe, casual and other groups that coalesce around a sport that are tributaries into a confluence that becomes a mighty river of momentum that is a popular domination of popular culture and consciousness.
When those tributaries dry up, the mighty river ain't a river any more. It's a shallow river and in places a glorified creek.
It's never been all about the hardcore fan. If it were, no commissioner would ever try to appeal to any fan beyond the hardcore. The money is in all the rest of the fans who exponentially outnumber the hardcore fans, usually 5 or 10 to 1.
If the NFL loses the non-hardcore fans, the current financial model of the NFL completely collapses. The sponsors will bail because they follow the fans and the behavior of NFL players (or more accurately, the public's willingness to tolerate the bad behavior) has gotten so out of control that these fans find this avocation to be an untenable way to spend their time and money, especially if it violates their personal principles.
Is the NFL in that spot now? Only at the very fringes..., but the problem is that people are asking this question, "is it moral to be a fan of the NFL" in major, mainstream publications and the answers aren't straightforward.
That's a MASSIVE problem for the NFL because only a few years ago, such a question would have been laughable, even though there would have been plenty of evidence that such a question were legitimate (we all know the domestic violence problem with the NFL has been running amok for ages, for example, and there are legions of examples of Domestic assaults being essentially unpunished by the league). Well, it's not laughable, anymore.
As dedicated fans, we are different. We spend TIME on a specific team and the NFL in general. We're likely to take the NFL, worts and all for quite awhile. It would take a lot for many of us to walk away.
But that's not what the article said. And it's important for us to take note of that. Because just like we pay attention to salary caps and all that... if this becomes the year of a "fan awakening" where fans are just inundated with player misconduct stories from Ray Rice to Ray McDonald to Greg Hardy to Adrian Peterson and the list just keeps growing each week and bouncing from "breaking news" to "breaking news"... non-dedicated fans will leave and the sponsors trying to reach THOSE fans will leave also. And that will affect the bottom line of the NFL in ways we can't predict.
The one thing that's NOT going to happen is that the press isn't going to stop looking for these stories now because they generate clicks and they are of interest.
If the NFL and the various teams don't get out in front of this, this problem will create its own solutions and they won't be good for the NFL.
Boxing used to be as much if not much more popular on a percentage basis than Football. Other than the Super Bowl, big fights would shut the country down as they were on the radio and Friday night was "fight night" all across the country.
The point is that things CAN change. Heck, in the 20s through the 70s, baseball was the predominant sport. Basketball became the most popular sport by the mid 80s and 90s, then football took over.
The NFL's current dominance is by no means guaranteed. It's a relatively new phenomenon and the sheer VOLUME of things that are building that could drive groups of people away is growing. Will it drive hardcore fans away? No. Then again, hardcore fight fans never left boxing, baseball or basketball, either. It's the fringe, casual and other groups that coalesce around a sport that are tributaries into a confluence that becomes a mighty river of momentum that is a popular domination of popular culture and consciousness.
When those tributaries dry up, the mighty river ain't a river any more. It's a shallow river and in places a glorified creek.
It's never been all about the hardcore fan. If it were, no commissioner would ever try to appeal to any fan beyond the hardcore. The money is in all the rest of the fans who exponentially outnumber the hardcore fans, usually 5 or 10 to 1.
If the NFL loses the non-hardcore fans, the current financial model of the NFL completely collapses. The sponsors will bail because they follow the fans and the behavior of NFL players (or more accurately, the public's willingness to tolerate the bad behavior) has gotten so out of control that these fans find this avocation to be an untenable way to spend their time and money, especially if it violates their personal principles.
Is the NFL in that spot now? Only at the very fringes..., but the problem is that people are asking this question, "is it moral to be a fan of the NFL" in major, mainstream publications and the answers aren't straightforward.
That's a MASSIVE problem for the NFL because only a few years ago, such a question would have been laughable, even though there would have been plenty of evidence that such a question were legitimate (we all know the domestic violence problem with the NFL has been running amok for ages, for example, and there are legions of examples of Domestic assaults being essentially unpunished by the league). Well, it's not laughable, anymore.
As dedicated fans, we are different. We spend TIME on a specific team and the NFL in general. We're likely to take the NFL, worts and all for quite awhile. It would take a lot for many of us to walk away.
But that's not what the article said. And it's important for us to take note of that. Because just like we pay attention to salary caps and all that... if this becomes the year of a "fan awakening" where fans are just inundated with player misconduct stories from Ray Rice to Ray McDonald to Greg Hardy to Adrian Peterson and the list just keeps growing each week and bouncing from "breaking news" to "breaking news"... non-dedicated fans will leave and the sponsors trying to reach THOSE fans will leave also. And that will affect the bottom line of the NFL in ways we can't predict.
The one thing that's NOT going to happen is that the press isn't going to stop looking for these stories now because they generate clicks and they are of interest.
If the NFL and the various teams don't get out in front of this, this problem will create its own solutions and they won't be good for the NFL.
I was a big fan of boxing for many years especially during the days of Ali, Foreman, Frazier, Sugar Ray Leonard, Roberto Duran, Hagler, Hearns, etc. But I permanently stopped watching after seeing a second man die in the ring. If that ever happened in the NFL I would probably turn it off as well.
But the NFL is being harmed by more than the small percentage of criminals and lowlifes, which has always been a reality, but by the micromanagement of Goodell and the constant throwing of flags.
I only see two things that can possibly cause a mass exodus by fans from the NFL - a strike that kills off an entire season or the uncovering of the fixing of games. Other than that I think the author of the OP article is way off base.
But the NFL is being harmed by more than the small percentage of criminals and lowlifes, which has always been a reality, but by the micromanagement of Goodell and the constant throwing of flags.
I only see two things that can possibly cause a mass exodus by fans from the NFL - a strike that kills off an entire season or the uncovering of the fixing of games. Other than that I think the author of the OP article is way off base.
Said in another thread, NFL kept on rolling after OJ Simpson and Lawrence Taylor to Michael Vick and Aaron Hernandez.
NFL is a different entity. Lots of sources for money, coupled for a relatively short season, fans get desperate for any type of football. You know when that's the case when the freakin combine is an event. And the lockout year further proves that. Remember how everyone felt when it was announced the lockout was over?
At the end of the day, fans are gonna watch.
NFL is a different entity. Lots of sources for money, coupled for a relatively short season, fans get desperate for any type of football. You know when that's the case when the freakin combine is an event. And the lockout year further proves that. Remember how everyone felt when it was announced the lockout was over?
At the end of the day, fans are gonna watch.
And those fringe, casual fans that @Mackeyser spoke of have taken notice believe me. I'm talking about fans like women, who might casually root for a team, and will watch a game when it's on tv when everyone else wants to watch it too. They don't really know too much about the X's and O's etc...but they know the star QB's. Even THESE fans are complaining about the excessive penalties. I see it on my facebook page.
NFL had better pay attention.
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mr.stlouis
Legend
Hahaha!!!! Yeah, sure. My parents said something similiar to me the other day before the Rams game. Guess what? They don't care for the game. People who never pay attention to it only hear the negatives and articles like this come out. I thought the lock out would the game. Heck, football got bigger because people felt starved from not having it.
What really baffles me is how some "fans" believe in their minds that these players, who are paid for their physical, aggressive attributes, are somehow supposed to be role models for society. Let's not forget that a heavy majority of players come from harsh backgrounds in areas plagued by violence and that is what they know. They are not meant to be role models as much as they are sources of entertainment and allegiance for the fan base. If you are looking for people to look up to, go to your local fire station, police station, or find a military veteran.
fearsomefour
Legend
It irritates me when people get on moral high horses. Especially when, statistically, the arrest rate in the NFL is below the average for society as a whole. Again, just strikes me as a writer trying to make a stink. Abuse of women and children, while sad and tragic, is not terribly uncommon. That fact makes it all the more horrible. It also makes it all the more ridiculous that the press only seems to care if involves someone with money and or fame. In short, the NFL is not the problem. The human condition is the problem. Social issues that are based in poverty, chemical dependency, poor education, imprisonment, ignorance ect. will not be fixed by people not watching football. Perhaps the writer is bothered that his football time was being invaded by the "real" world?
I dont know what the writers motivation is but I know what I dont need from him. I dont him telling me where to spend my free time or where to spend my leisure money. I dont need him to try to make me feel guilty about the problems of society. If it bothers him that much I would suggest he get in the trenches and help someone out who needs it....not because it makes good print but because it is the right thing to do. Outside of that, I would not mind if he stopped playing morality police and passed the pretzels, I have a game to watch.
I dont know what the writers motivation is but I know what I dont need from him. I dont him telling me where to spend my free time or where to spend my leisure money. I dont need him to try to make me feel guilty about the problems of society. If it bothers him that much I would suggest he get in the trenches and help someone out who needs it....not because it makes good print but because it is the right thing to do. Outside of that, I would not mind if he stopped playing morality police and passed the pretzels, I have a game to watch.
Well, okay. But you're a dedicated fan. You post on a fan site. Most fans don't even do that.
I surely don't disagree that a strike or game fixing would be two huge drivers of fans away from the game. However, I just think that Goodell's mismanaging of these crises could create a tipping point.
I mean 47% of NFL fans are women. That shocked me. But look at the stands. LOTS of women in the stands and they aren't just sitting there dutifully. They are fans. They want to be there.
So, mismanaging this domestic violence issue puts a lot of women fans at risk of abandoning the sport. I keep reading women's sources I trust (like sources that spider from that TEDtalk I posted) and there are already women who ARE huge fans of the NFL who have stopped watching. Whether they resume will be a function of how all this mess gets handled.
But if any organization or business had a scandal where situation where the act of light or no punishment told 47% of its customers that they thought less of them then animals or free tatoos, any person who had any knowledge of business would know that the business was in trouble. Not moribund, but in trouble. You can't have nearly half of you customers...alienated enough to be willing to walk.
The NFL expanded it's base enough that men are only half. They can't operate any more as if women don't matter and these rulings that have been highlighted essentially say that. If women walk away and take their money and keep talking to sponsors and vote with their wallets, then the pot shrinks. I don't think it shrinks 47%, but even if the pot shrinks 10%, that's a Billion dollar loss for the NFL. That's why I don't think the article is off base.
Now, if the NFL fired Goodell (or let him resign relatively quietly and didn't go on and on about what a great guy he is, because, ya know...he's really being fired...) and got a guy like Adam Silver, they would have someone who got out in front of these issues with integrity and authority who could still build a brand.
If there is one constant in the universe, it's change. The NFL will no more be the dominant sport than was Jousting and Jousting had turkey legs and knocking guys off a horse with a big stick (it's a Lance. Hello..)
I surely don't disagree that a strike or game fixing would be two huge drivers of fans away from the game. However, I just think that Goodell's mismanaging of these crises could create a tipping point.
I mean 47% of NFL fans are women. That shocked me. But look at the stands. LOTS of women in the stands and they aren't just sitting there dutifully. They are fans. They want to be there.
So, mismanaging this domestic violence issue puts a lot of women fans at risk of abandoning the sport. I keep reading women's sources I trust (like sources that spider from that TEDtalk I posted) and there are already women who ARE huge fans of the NFL who have stopped watching. Whether they resume will be a function of how all this mess gets handled.
But if any organization or business had a scandal where situation where the act of light or no punishment told 47% of its customers that they thought less of them then animals or free tatoos, any person who had any knowledge of business would know that the business was in trouble. Not moribund, but in trouble. You can't have nearly half of you customers...alienated enough to be willing to walk.
The NFL expanded it's base enough that men are only half. They can't operate any more as if women don't matter and these rulings that have been highlighted essentially say that. If women walk away and take their money and keep talking to sponsors and vote with their wallets, then the pot shrinks. I don't think it shrinks 47%, but even if the pot shrinks 10%, that's a Billion dollar loss for the NFL. That's why I don't think the article is off base.
Now, if the NFL fired Goodell (or let him resign relatively quietly and didn't go on and on about what a great guy he is, because, ya know...he's really being fired...) and got a guy like Adam Silver, they would have someone who got out in front of these issues with integrity and authority who could still build a brand.
If there is one constant in the universe, it's change. The NFL will no more be the dominant sport than was Jousting and Jousting had turkey legs and knocking guys off a horse with a big stick (it's a Lance. Hello..)
fearsomefour
Legend
I just think it is overstatement. I dont know one person male of female that has stopped watching. That, of course, means nothing in the big picture. Any form of entertainment (because of the money, social standing and popularity) has plenty of dirtbags one can point to. Some have had their careers ruined and some do fine after a scandal. I think most people are clear enough to separate the actions of a few morons from an industry. Maybe not. If I was the Commish I would be feverishly trying to better this issue because it does distract from a generally great product.
A valid point regarding jousting....how badass was jousting....pass me a turkey leg, I have a joust to watch!
If AP is allowed to play with no action by the NFL, we could all be surprised by the reaction.
I'm all for improving helmets and other things that actually reduce injury. In reality though, football is nowhere on the list of most dangerousness jobs and all of those on the list pay a fraction of football.
I'm all for improving helmets and other things that actually reduce injury. In reality though, football is nowhere on the list of most dangerousness jobs and all of those on the list pay a fraction of football.
Well, my point was only that...it's not an invalid point.
If the only constant is change, then staying at the top of the mountain for any length of time is a challenge and one knows going in that it just won't be a forever thing.
The question just becomes... why will the NFL fall from grace? It will, eventually. As did Boxing. As did Baseball. As did Basketball. So will go Football.
I'm not trying to write Football's epitaph, but just acknowledge that events do conspire when these things happen. Sometimes they can be a gradual decline like in Baseball or they can be more sudden, like in boxing. It feels like I could write a long paper about boxing which with baseball, I spent a lot of time on in my youth. I was a bookie as a kid. My Grandfather helped bring up the Holmes family from Georgia (he was a founding member, 1 of 14, of the Easton chapter of the NAACP in 1942) and he took a young boy, Larry Holmes, to St. Anthony's Gym so that he could take up boxing because he had a lot of energy and he didn't want him getting him into trouble. Before signing with Don King, Larry Holmes asked my grandfather to manage him. He said no due to age and he was a Church guy through and through. President of St. John's Lutheran Church in Easton, PA seemingly forever and heading up the local welfare board, a volunteer position. So, he wasn't about to get into the seedy business of fight promotion. Unfortunately for Larry Holmes because Don King robbed him blind...
Anyway, my point after that detour is that things come and go. And... there are reasons for WHY they come and WHY they go.
Thus, if the NFL wishes to remain atop the mountain in this media obsessed aged longer, it had better adapt as an organization to operating with a diverse fan base.
And really, what are we talking about?
Punishing wife beaters? Not just wife...er...pushers. Wife beaters and wife-"threaten-to-kill'ers". That's common sense. That the legal system doesn't do it is atrocious. However, and we ALL already know this, the public often holds companies to higher standards than government. They just do. Burdens of proof are lower and standards are higher.
Actually, in many instances, we're just talking about having a consistent and articulated personal conduct policy that isn't based on the whims of the Commissioner as well as seemingly the business model of the league. Right now, the moral compass of the NFL seems pointed toward True $ rather than True North. It's possible for the NFL to function with integrity and not in just gross opposition to its stated purpose.
The biggest problem is that under Goodell, especially under Goodell, the NFL has took the phrase "protect the shield" to mean in the lawyerly sense rather than the moral sense that preceded him.
And that is why this is all blowing up and that is why the longer Goodell stays, the BIGGER this gets.
This isn't even about Ray Rice anymore. It's Rice, McDonald, Hardy, Peterson and the bunch of other guys who are in the league who did some really horrible things.
The question becomes will this be the incident that hastens the exodus of the NFL from the pinnacle of the mountain?
If the only constant is change, then staying at the top of the mountain for any length of time is a challenge and one knows going in that it just won't be a forever thing.
The question just becomes... why will the NFL fall from grace? It will, eventually. As did Boxing. As did Baseball. As did Basketball. So will go Football.
I'm not trying to write Football's epitaph, but just acknowledge that events do conspire when these things happen. Sometimes they can be a gradual decline like in Baseball or they can be more sudden, like in boxing. It feels like I could write a long paper about boxing which with baseball, I spent a lot of time on in my youth. I was a bookie as a kid. My Grandfather helped bring up the Holmes family from Georgia (he was a founding member, 1 of 14, of the Easton chapter of the NAACP in 1942) and he took a young boy, Larry Holmes, to St. Anthony's Gym so that he could take up boxing because he had a lot of energy and he didn't want him getting him into trouble. Before signing with Don King, Larry Holmes asked my grandfather to manage him. He said no due to age and he was a Church guy through and through. President of St. John's Lutheran Church in Easton, PA seemingly forever and heading up the local welfare board, a volunteer position. So, he wasn't about to get into the seedy business of fight promotion. Unfortunately for Larry Holmes because Don King robbed him blind...
Anyway, my point after that detour is that things come and go. And... there are reasons for WHY they come and WHY they go.
Thus, if the NFL wishes to remain atop the mountain in this media obsessed aged longer, it had better adapt as an organization to operating with a diverse fan base.
And really, what are we talking about?
Punishing wife beaters? Not just wife...er...pushers. Wife beaters and wife-"threaten-to-kill'ers". That's common sense. That the legal system doesn't do it is atrocious. However, and we ALL already know this, the public often holds companies to higher standards than government. They just do. Burdens of proof are lower and standards are higher.
Actually, in many instances, we're just talking about having a consistent and articulated personal conduct policy that isn't based on the whims of the Commissioner as well as seemingly the business model of the league. Right now, the moral compass of the NFL seems pointed toward True $ rather than True North. It's possible for the NFL to function with integrity and not in just gross opposition to its stated purpose.
The biggest problem is that under Goodell, especially under Goodell, the NFL has took the phrase "protect the shield" to mean in the lawyerly sense rather than the moral sense that preceded him.
And that is why this is all blowing up and that is why the longer Goodell stays, the BIGGER this gets.
This isn't even about Ray Rice anymore. It's Rice, McDonald, Hardy, Peterson and the bunch of other guys who are in the league who did some really horrible things.
The question becomes will this be the incident that hastens the exodus of the NFL from the pinnacle of the mountain?
"Peterson’s return was not universally supported. A fan website, VikingsMessageBoard.com, shut down Monday for what it called the team’s “cowardly decision” to reinstate Peterson. A note on the site said the shutdown was permanent. “We will not give a voice to those who think child abuse is ‘cultural,’ or worse, openly advocate child abuse as a reasonable method of punishment,” the note said."
perceptive, and very nicely put.
for my own part...i can admit that i struggle with the moral question posed by football, and moreso with each passing season, as we find out new and ever more grim facts about the toll football takes on the young men that we pay to play it (and ultimately, fans do pay them, whether directly or indirectly). do we not bear some responsibility, then, for the terrible fate that awaits an apparently growing number of they people when football has no more use for them? speaking for myself, i find this an inescapable conclusion; i'm encouraging people to bruise their brains repeatedly for my entertainment.
yes, yes, i know...we're not forcing them to do it. and that's true, as far as it goes. no one forces them. but how realistic is it to expect a young person, who in many cases would otherwise struggle to get by in today's economy, to walk away from the fabulous riches that could be theirs if they only sign a contract and play a game...a game that, besides making them fabulously wealthy, will make them famous to boot? and honestly, without fans eager to consume the NFL product, they wouldn't even be out there doing it in the first place because there wouldn't even be an NFL. try as i might to rationalize thinngs, i can't help struggling with it, because i don't think i can effectively explain away some sense of responsibility for the fate awaiting many of these guys.
as the author says, the game will, at some point, have to make changes to address the debilitating brain injuries that, as we have just learned, going to strike at least 3 out of every 10 players. much as i might like to keep everything the way it is, i know changes will come, and hope that an acceptable balance can be found between safety and entertainment.