Is the offensive line… good?

[Kupped]

Problem is that it would be almost impossible to keep such an O-Line (where 4 or more starters are Pro Bowl caliber players) together.

Like many here, I hope the Rams re-sign Dotson but they may have to over-pay. The advantage (as I see it) is that the 1st year (and sometimes 2nd year) cap hit on big contracts can be minimized.

As such, Havenstein could be the only OL on the 2024 roster with a huge big cap number. At some point, Havenstein will not be on the roster ... if for no other reason, to prevent Old-Not-Dead from going insane.

Not sure how Shelton plays out, as he will almost certainly opt for free agency. Even with a 1st (or 2nd) round tender offer, Jackson would not be a huge cap hit.

What you said on Dotson is a key point.. how they structure it matters.
With simple restructuring.. the Rams can get to $100 million in space.. I think I read about $15 million of that will be needed for rookies and to get to a basic full roster.
Now.. a super-aggressive all-in with restructures that would include players working with them on the deal could open $117 million.

These numbers are why I say the Rams will be making huge moves this offseason. There's no slow-grow option with Stafford at this age and no guarantee you're getting a QB near his level any time soon.

 

[WestCoastRam]

Rams running maybe 60% gap this year, it was reverse that a few years ago, 60% or more or less zone

This one, though is not duo, it is inside zone --- Williams plants, cuts back, and watch #29, Fuller --- get turned around


View: https://x.com/53_jim70721/status/1737687181118910811?s=20

Dan, how do I tell diff between inside zone and duo?

 

[Allen2McVay]

...
With simple restructuring.. the Rams can get to $100 million in space.
Now.. a super-aggressive all-in with restructures that would include players working with them on the deal could open $117 million.

These numbers are why I say the Rams will be making huge moves this offseason.

We have discussed this and simply do not agree; and that's OK.

I think it's ridiculous to believe the Rams will restructure to get to $100M of salary cap space.

The 'simple' in simple restructuring is ... in my opinion ... Simple Math.
When Over-the-Cap uses the term Simple Restructure, it just means Simple to do ... Not Smart to do.

For example, Stafford has a $31M Base Salary in 2024 and is under contract for three more years (through 2026). The Rams can reclassify $30M of salary to bonus. That has No Impact on Stafford's compensation (amount or when received). It does not change when the Rams pay him.

It only changes the cap hit. The $30M (for cap allocation purposes) would spread-out over the three years remaining on his contract ... $10M per-year. That would create $20M of 2024 cap space.

Again, I don't see the Rams doing major contract restructures with most of their highly paid veterans.

As I have posted before, I do believe the Rams will have an active off-season, with cap space to make moves.
I see some restructuring and roster moves to increase the 2024 cap space... I believe Brian Allen will be released, creating almost $5M of cap space, with $3.15M of Dead-$. However, I don't see anything close to what you have been projecting.

We a just going to have to see how things play out.

 

[Kupped]

We have discussed this and simply do not agree; and that's OK.

I think it's ridiculous to believe the Rams will restructure to get to $100M of salary cap space.

The 'simple' in simple restructuring is ... in my opinion ... Simple Math.
When Over-the-Cap uses the term Simple Restructure, it just means Simple to do ... Not Smart to do.

For example, Stafford has a $31M Base Salary in 2024 and is under contract for three more years (through 2026). The Rams can reclassify $30M of salary to bonus. That has No Impact on Stafford's compensation (amount or when received). It does not change when the Rams pay him.

It only changes the cap hit. The $30M (for cap allocation purposes) would spread-out over the three years remaining on his contract ... $10M per-year. That would create $20M of 2024 cap space.

Again, I don't see the Rams doing major contract restructures with most of their highly paid veterans.

As I have posted before, I do believe the Rams will have an active off-season, with cap space to make moves.
I see some restructuring and roster moves to increase the 2024 cap space... I believe Brian Allen will be released, creating almost $5M of cap space, with $3.15M of Dead-$. However, I don't see anything close to what you have been projecting.

We a just going to have to see how things play out.

I get it.

I also don’t expect them to do every restructure.

But I absolutely expect them to get to at least 65.. and to structure some of the signings to have lower year-one hits.

I feel like you think I don’t understand that the $$ just get pushed down the road.

The competitive window for a Super Bowl is now, not 4 years from now.

 

[Kupped]

We have discussed this and simply do not agree; and that's OK.

I think it's ridiculous to believe the Rams will restructure to get to $100M of salary cap space.

The 'simple' in simple restructuring is ... in my opinion ... Simple Math.
When Over-the-Cap uses the term Simple Restructure, it just means Simple to do ... Not Smart to do.

For example, Stafford has a $31M Base Salary in 2024 and is under contract for three more years (through 2026). The Rams can reclassify $30M of salary to bonus. That has No Impact on Stafford's compensation (amount or when received). It does not change when the Rams pay him.

It only changes the cap hit. The $30M (for cap allocation purposes) would spread-out over the three years remaining on his contract ... $10M per-year. That would create $20M of 2024 cap space.

Again, I don't see the Rams doing major contract restructures with most of their highly paid veterans.

As I have posted before, I do believe the Rams will have an active off-season, with cap space to make moves.
I see some restructuring and roster moves to increase the 2024 cap space... I believe Brian Allen will be released, creating almost $5M of cap space, with $3.15M of Dead-$. However, I don't see anything close to what you have been projecting.

We a just going to have to see how things play out.

Sorry for the double reply..

Just wanted to add, the Rams have shown they’re much re than willing to deal with dead cap $$.

Why do you think that would change?

 

[Merlin]

The only one I want to see gone off this OL next year is Noteboom.

I agree with this to a point. If they can draft a LT early he's gone in June or whatever. But if not then the question arises of should they keep him around as a pairing with Jackson, where the two of them together give you an answer at LT with even though it's not ideal. Also is it feasible to extend his contract out a bit to lower his cap hit and properly put him at a spot starter type salary.

It's funny because Boom has driven me batshit forever it seems. But I can't deny the dude is valuable when one of our starters goes down and he can spell any of them other than center. Really the problem with him as a swing option is that he's overpaid so what if they fix that. And if they go that route can that help to pay for locking Dotson up.

 

[dieterbrock]

We have discussed this and simply do not agree; and that's OK.

Yeah, I wasnt going to re-hash any old arguments, the reality is that the Rams are not in an optimum situation cap wise going in to '24. I imagine they can make things work to open up 20-30 mill, but not much more than that.
Best case scenario includes Donald signing an extension since re-structuring his deal isnt an option

 

[Allen2McVay]

I get it.

I also don’t expect them to do every restructure.

But I absolutely expect them to get to at least 65.. and to structure some of the signings to have lower year-one hits.

I feel like you think I don’t understand that the $$ just get pushed down the road.

The competitive window for a Super Bowl is now, not 4 years from now.

I don't disagree with that but it's the first time I have seen you post $65M.

That would be opening-up an additional $20-25M. I don't consider that to be ridiculous at all.

In quite a few other posts, I have seen you reference the $100M with Simple Restructures.

So maybe, we are not so far apart after all. I do expect the Rams to be active, and have some cap flexibility.

 

[Allen2McVay]

Yeah, I wasn't going to re-hash any old arguments, the reality is that the Rams are not in an optimum situation cap wise going in to '24. I imagine they can make things work to open up 20-30 mill, but not much more than that.
Best case scenario includes Donald signing an extension since re-structuring his deal isn't an option

I Agree.

@Kupped:
What Dieter suggests would get the Rams to around $65M of cap space, which is what you posted above; and which I think would be great.

Maybe we are not as far apart as we previously thought. If that's the case, we should unify against our Common-Enemy ... @Loyal must be stopped!

 

[Allen2McVay]

Sorry for the double reply..

Just wanted to add, the Rams have shown they’re much re than willing to deal with dead cap $$.

Why do you think that would change?

That's OK.

I don't think carrying huge Dead-$ (the Rams are around $78M this season / second highest in the League) is sustainable long-term. I think Rams' Management has acknowledged that. Some Dead-$ is inevitable, and common but $20-$40M should be more the target.

 

[Kupped]

That's OK.

I don't think carrying huge Dead-$ (the Rams are around $78M this season / second highest in the League) is sustainable long-term. I think Rams' Management has acknowledged that. Some Dead-$ is inevitable, and common but $20-$40M should be more the target.

I’ll just give you my thought-process on why they might go big.

I think it’s possible McVay has a 3-year window. Kid will be 3 at that point.. time when being a Dad starts to be fun.

Sean didn’t come back for a long rebuild, in my mind.

Also.. yes, Sean is critical and you have to maximize your possibilities with him.

Lastly, I don’t view 70 million in dead cap as sustainable.
But I do view it, right now, as cyclical.

 

[dang]

I’d like an upgrade at center, but I think McVay likes his centers to be a little smaller and more agile.

But Shelton had some bad games this year where he was getting pushed around in pass pro.

Need a stud at OC. Wouldn’t mind drafting the LT of the future as well and keep AJax in until they were ready. And have Ajax as our swing tackle or maybe at RG if Dotson priced himself out.

 

[Merlin]

Need a stud at OC. Wouldn’t mind drafting the LT of the future as well and keep AJax in until they were ready. And have Ajax as our swing tackle or maybe at RG if Dotson priced himself out.

Miami's center would have been perfect for us. Add him to the pivot, slide Jackson over to RG (with competition vs Bruss in camp) and draft a big and nasty LT in round 1 and we'd have the makings of a hell of a line. But he blew out that ACL.

FA options at Center now aren't all that great, as there are upgrades over Shelton but the benefit isn't that great, probably not enough to make the move worthwhile. Draft options at Center aren't all that great, lot of guys who might develop but doesn't look like slam dunk day one starter types. So I expect they'll get a deal done with Dotson and if not then it means they're seeing what the Steelers saw, which is something that tells them that from a mentality perspective he's not the guy you want to invest in.

If they don't sign Dotson then I think LT becomes more of a priority in the draft. Rams have flexibility though because they could simply draft an OG rounds 3-5 or whatever too. But to me if there's a hole at RG it means Jackson will slide over and guard is more of a natural position for him anyways so you're being more efficient in use of your resources with that combination of moves. Plus him and Havenstein would road grade next to each other I'd think. Drawback is we'd have to endure early season LT settling in period, which would affect Stafford most, but if they also add another RB behind Williams it's doable while still winning I'd hope.

Key with a lesser center is having good guard quality to protect him. Whatever happens we should have that. Doesn't mean you can't take a shot at a center in midrounds but truth is there's only so many picks and we have a lot of holes to fill still. One nice thing though is we didn't have flexibility last year going into the offseason. LT was a question mark and both guard spots were holes. This offseason we know what Jackson is, which is a non-ideal answer at LT for a year if we need to, and RG we can either sign Dotson or slide Jackson over. Avila is a stud. Hav is still an iron man. We look way better than many teams in that OL room I think, key is making the right moves to ensure they start the season fast.

Because we're not gonna win a 1 seed with a slow start. If you want that bye in the playoffs it's gonna take a team that comes out rolling.

 

[JimY53]

Dan, how do I tell diff between inside zone and duo?

It is a struggle for me because plays are fluid and you don't know the call so you have to watch the play develop
and make a judgment call as to a few things


If a teams runs AWAY from the TE you know it is not IZ
If a team runs TO the TE is could be either so in that case ----
If the center blocks playside is is IZ
If the center blocks backside it is duo

Another tell, to make sure is the backside
Does the tackle away from the play block a DE? If he does it's a "big on big" call it's duo
If the tackle blocks someone else it's IZ, they block whoever is there, DE, LBer ...

In the clip they go to the TE, the center goes playside, the RB goes to the TE, then cuts back.
Those are indicators of IZ

The one thing that the backside tackle takes the DE, (big on big) but there is no one else to block so in either, in this case, he would take the same guy so, to me, it's IZ.

 

[JimY53]

Also, change my name to JY53 from "DantheMan" to be consistent with my twitter page
and also another board I post to

but the photo os the same ---

 

[LARAMSinFeb.]

The only one I want to see gone off this OL next year is Noteboom.

I'd love it if he stayed with this backup role for less money though. I doubt it's likely he'd do that, but....

 

[WestCoastRam]

It is a struggle for me because plays are fluid and you don't know the call so you have to watch the play develop
and make a judgment call as to a few things


If a teams runs AWAY from the TE you know it is not IZ
If a team runs TO the TE is could be either so in that case ----
If the center blocks playside is is IZ
If the center blocks backside it is duo

Another tell, to make sure is the backside
Does the tackle away from the play block a DE? If he does it's a "big on big" call it's duo
If the tackle blocks someone else it's IZ, they block whoever is there, DE, LBer ...

In the clip they go to the TE, the center goes playside, the RB goes to the TE, then cuts back.
Those are indicators of IZ

The one thing that the backside tackle takes the DE, (big on big) but there is no one else to block so in either, in this case, he would take the same guy so, to me, it's IZ.

I'm still gonna call you Dan.

 

[JimY53]

I'm still gonna call you Dan.

You can call be Jim, you can call me Dan, You can call be Ja, but you doesn't have to call me Johnson

 

[Kupped]

Again... a very, very strong performance by the line.

 

[Giles]

They're top 10 rn. Opening massive holes in the run gm, and giving Stafford enough time to make gumbo. I love to see it.