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- Peter
BINGO!You mentioned boxing. Alan. Muhammad Ali was the king of the taunters before, during, and after a fight, yet he retired as a highly respected sportsman. I guess I don't quite understand how the NFL will decide what taunting is and isn't and how they will referee that in a fair manner.
It's like that joke: How do you keep an Italian from talking? Put his hands in his pockets.The real question to ask ourselves here is will Richard Sherman be able to do his job properly without running his mouth at his opponents? If he can't then I'm all for the NFL cracking down on taunting.
I don't disagree with you. Not in principle. But there's idealistic and realistic and I think you're describing the former. I don't think it would take much effort to compile a long list of NFL HOF's that behaved outside the boundaries of your definitions and expectations of what "good" sportsmanship are. Jack Lambert. Dick Butkus. I mean, I'm not even going to get going on that list. The guys who played and shaped the NFL would do everything they could to gain an advantage and much of it wasn't considered good sportsmanship.You already know it moklerman. It's called the golden rule. Look into your heart and you'll find all the rules. I'll post a little of what you already know if you've forgotten some of it over the years.
If you're into sports, you've seen it happen. You've probably even experienced it: Football players shaking hands after four quarters of knocking each other around. Tennis players leaping over the net to shake hands with their opponents after a hard-fought match. Soccer players exchanging jerseys after an intense 90 minutes. Even boxers touching gloves at the beginning of each round, then hugging each other after beating each other into a pulp for 12 rounds.
It seems like competitors in every event, from spelling bees to hockey, behave this way. What's going on?
It's all part of sportsmanship, a great tradition in sports and competition that means playing clean and handling both victory and defeat with grace, style, and dignity.
What Is Sportsmanship?
Sportsmanship is defined as:
Some people define good sportsmanship as the "golden rule" of sports — in other words, treating the people you play with and against as you'd like to be treated yourself. You demonstrate good sportsmanship when you show respect for yourself, your teammates, and your opponents, for the coaches on both sides, and for the referees, judges, and other officials.
- playing fair
- following the rules of the game
- respecting the judgment of referees and officials
- treating opponents with respect
But sportsmanship isn't just reserved for the people on the field. Cheerleaders, fans, and parents also need to be aware of how they behave during competition. Sportsmanship is a style and an attitude, and it can have a positive influence on everyone around you.
You can add to these basics aif you want because I'm sure your additions would fit just fine.
You're advocating the same actions that are leading us to destroy the Earth as we know it. The whole "Why should I go green and try to reduce my carbon footprint when so many others in the world aren't? My contribution is meaningless when looking at the big picture." That statement is only true because there are so many who take the easy/realistic road instead of the hard/idealistic one.moklerman still looking for the easy way:
I don't disagree with you. Not in principle. But there's idealistic and realistic and I think you're describing the former.
I don't disagree with you. Not in principle. But there's idealistic and realistic and I think you're describing the former. I don't think it would take much effort to compile a long list of NFL HOF's that behaved outside the boundaries of your definitions and expectations of what "good" sportsmanship are. Jack Lambert. Dick Butkus. I mean, I'm not even going to get going on that list. The guys who played and shaped the NFL would do everything they could to gain an advantage and much of it wasn't considered good sportsmanship.
I think there is a reason some players are so revered. Jim Brown, Walter Payton, Barry Sanders, Larry Fitzgerald...these guys did it right in my book. But I don't expect or want every player in the league to act that way. As much as I hate 'em, there need to be guys I don't like too.
Trash talking is a slippery slope IMO. Taunting a guy when he's laying there injured is obviously crossing the line and easy to enforce. But the trash talk that these guys do with each other? I think it's getting onto very shaky ground if you start telling players what they can and can't say to each other. Trying to make a violent, dangerous, testosterone filled arena civilized and respectful would destroy the game IMO.
Possible reason why Rams made no effort to restructure/resign Finnegan. He's one of the worst offendersLet's hope the message gets through to all of OUR taunters, because we are well-stocked just like everyone else.
No, being realistic is doing what you can do and realizing that not everyone else is going to do the same. I believe you and I feel the same about how a player should act but that isn't what everyone else who watches or plays the game feels. A little trash talk is fine for a lot of people. Regulating and policing sportsmanship, especially when it isn't clearly defined by all involved is an idealistic, unattainable goal.You're advocating the same actions that are leading us to destroy the Earth as we know it. The whole "Why should I go green and try to reduce my carbon footprint when so many others in the world aren't? My contribution is meaningless when looking at the big picture." That statement is only true because there are so many who take the easy/realistic road instead of the hard/idealistic one.
For me moklerman and I mean no disrespect to you, that's one of the problems in the world. Everyone wants the other guy to do the right thing. I try never to run my life like that. I'm not always successful but I don't lie to myself about my failures either.
It's not the idealistic thing to do , it's the right thing to do. IMO.
Like I said, I agree. I'm more conservative and don't get anything from the celebrations. But where do you draw the line? Absolutely no celebrations at any time? Believe me, I hated when Gastineau would do his stuff but I'd by hypocritical if I said I didn't enjoy Jared Allen doing his rope thing.I never saw Walter Payton acting like some of these guys today where every play someone is running their mouth, waving off an incomplete pass (sometimes when it was not incomplete Jenkins) or acting like fools. There is no need for any of that nonsense. There are guys today that do not do those things and they are GREAT players. I don't recall ever seeing Payton Manning getting in someone's face after throwing a completion, Isaac Bruce never pointed at someone after a score as we saw Steve Smith do in Carolina last year, the game does not need that display of ohhh look at me. We are watching the games, no kidding you made a tackle, through a nice block, ran down the field holding the football. Nice job get on with it and quit patting yourself on the back.
Possible reason why Rams made no effort to restructure/resign Finnegan. He's one of the worst offenders
train
Like I said, I agree. I'm more conservative and don't get anything from the celebrations. But where do you draw the line? Absolutely no celebrations at any time? Believe me, I hated when Gastineau would do his stuff but I'd by hypocritical if I said I didn't enjoy Jared Allen doing his rope thing.
So, is it okay to do those things as long as you're not directing directly at a player or should they be eliminated too? Not every form of celebration is taunting but then you leave it up to predominantly older white men to judge. I don't think that's fair to everyone involved. The set of values they have doesn't necessarily translate to younger generations or different ethnicities.
So if Quinn gets a sack on a crucial 3rd down that ices the game for the Rams, he should be penalized if he and the rest of the defense start celebrating?If you are going to be fair it has to be structured to take the judgmental part out. No celebrations unless the it is directly related to a score. That makes it about as black and white as it can be and leaves nothing to be judged.
No, there's not only one way to celebrate and that's the point. Gastineau would lose his mind on a celebration but that's all it was. He wasn't taunting the other player but IMO, what he was doing wasn't particularly sportsman-like.So there's only one way to celebrate? Jumping up and down with happiness as you run to the sidelines and continuing your celebration there doesn't count? Cause, you know, they never celebrated in the distant past right?
Is the game over? Are they on the field celebrating? If so, yes the rules have to be enforced fairly across the board. Go to the sideline and go crazy as long as you are not interacting with the opposing team.So if Quinn gets a sack on a crucial 3rd down that ices the game for the Rams, he should be penalized if he and the rest of the defense start celebrating?