Is anyone NOT good with either QB?

[dieterbrock]

I've decided to appoint myself as the judge, jury and presenter of the weekly "Old Larry Award" to the poster that most illogically criticizes the QB the Rams "mistakenly draft", instead of "their guy"

You're all welcome!

 

[Mackeyser]

I am a little confused. I swear I heard this argument before but I can't remember where...

Oh right, it was back in 2010 when people were claiming that Jimmy Clausen was more pro ready than Bradford because Bradford played in a spread and Clausen played in a pro style offense.

That's a flawed comparison in that Clausen had emotional/intellectual/maturity issues... And that was borne out at the pro level.

Ultimately, the argument becomes can Goff learn an NFL offense to the depth that Wentz has already in order to have success faster than Wentz can improve his footwork and pocket movement?

It's not one we can determine here, not with endless clips or well made arguments. Only their play at the next level will ultimately answer this debate. So, all we can do is sit and wait.

It's going to be hard to judge because Wentz is going to sit at least a year. Bradford WILL be given his year because Philly's spent too much money and they seem committed to this project. Wentz is going to get the time to learn. It seems that they see how dominant Aaron Rodgers is and how valuable that development time is and they're committing to it which may yield exponentially high yields considering how few QBs are being sent to the Pros from college.

Ultimately, I think they'll both be fine. However, how much farther each reaches above being "good" as we've seen with Bradford will be partly a function of things in his control and partly a function of things totally out of his control. In Bradford's case, he's had 6 different OCs in 7 years, 2 ACLs, 2 teams, lack of development...Schotty's whistle?.../smh...that's not an environment in which a QB is positively developed which is why a QB with such promise is now a..."good" QB instead of what he should be, a Top 10 or even Top 5 QB at this point.

So, both should be good QBs. How much better will be a function of their internal desires (which they both seem to have plenty of, unlike guys like Leaf and Clausen) and external factors which...we can't know because they won't present themselves until they do.

'Tis the season for "hoping for the best".

 

[Mackeyser]

I have to stop you right there.... Wentz did NOT play in DivIIA. He played in Div I A. HUGE difference ... carry on...

It was Div IAA, Still Div I and their games prior to playing in their conference were played against the Div IA Big Sky conference. I'm sure most of that was due to travel budgeting...

 

[nighttrain]

That's a flawed comparison in that Clausen had emotional/intellectual/maturity issues... And that was borne out at the pro level.

Ultimately, the argument becomes can Goff learn an NFL offense to the depth that Wentz has already in order to have success faster than Wentz can improve his footwork and pocket movement?

It's not one we can determine here, not with endless clips or well made arguments. Only their play at the next level will ultimately answer this debate. So, all we can do is sit and wait.

It's going to be hard to judge because Wentz is going to sit at least a year. Bradford WILL be given his year because Philly's spent too much money and they seem committed to this project. Wentz is going to get the time to learn. It seems that they see how dominant Aaron Rodgers is and how valuable that development time is and they're committing to it which may yield exponentially high yields considering how few QBs are being sent to the Pros from college.

Ultimately, I think they'll both be fine. However, how much farther each reaches above being "good" as we've seen with Bradford will be partly a function of things in his control and partly a function of things totally out of his control. In Bradford's case, he's had 6 different OCs in 7 years, 2 ACLs, 2 teams, lack of development...Schotty's whistle?.../smh...that's not an environment in which a QB is positively developed which is why a QB with such promise is now a..."good" QB instead of what he should be, a Top 10 or even Top 5 QB at this point.

So, both should be good QBs. How much better will be a function of their internal desires (which they both seem to have plenty of, unlike guys like Leaf and Clausen) and external factors which...we can't know because they won't present themselves until they do.

'Tis the season for "hoping for the best".

that would be Jared Goff
train

 

[dieterbrock]

I also don't understand why ND state is considered a pro style offense. It's not. It has a read option look to it which is why Wentz ran 138 times in his one full season Btw, Russell Wilson career high for rushing attempts is 118, and under 100 attempts in 2 of 4 seasons. Steve McNair on the other hand only had over 100 rushes 1 time in his career (101) while most years it was in the 70's.

 

[Mackeyser]

I never posited an either/or question. I said the comparison using Clausen was flawed because...Clausen.

And much of how players become what they become is out of their control (Exhibit A: Sam Bradford).

With the Rams taking Goff, we all hope Goff becomes one of the Rams Great QBs and listed among the pantheon of them from Waterfield to Warner.

 

[Mackeyser]

I also don't understand why ND state is considered a pro style offense. It's not. It has a read option look to it which is why Wentz ran 138 times in his one full season Btw, Russell Wilson career high for rushing attempts is 118, and under 100 attempts in 2 of 4 seasons. Steve McNair on the other hand only had over 100 rushes 1 time in his career (101) while most years it was in the 70's.

It's a WCO. It just happens to be a power running variant. That's possible.

Just like Washington ran a power running variant of the Coryell offense, the same offense that was run in San Diego ran a pass heavy variant in Air Coryell.

 

[dieterbrock]

It's a WCO. It just happens to be a power running variant. That's possible.

Just like Washington ran a power running variant of the Coryell offense, the same offense that was run in San Diego ran a pass heavy variant in Air Coryell.

I liken it to the Florida Gators offense with Tebow. I don't buy it's WCO because Wentz tucks and runs. He's an incredible athelet but I don't think either QB played in an offense that will resemble what they'll play in LA

 

[Mackeyser]

LOL, you can think that if you like. It's a "flat earther" type of opinion, but whatever. It's a WCO. You don't have to buy it. It is.

You can call it an umbrella or a monster truck if you like.

But it's a WCO. That's a fact, plain and simple. And because the Rams run a hybrid WCO (I call it a quasi-WCO and that may be a semantics argument), and as such, it very much resembles what the Rams run.

There are arguments one can make for or against any number of QBs which, frankly are moot because Goff is for all intents and purposes a Ram, but what you've said isn't among them.

 

[sjm1582002]

I'm happy with either though Goff sure looks polished in a pocket that is giving way (a vital skill for any NFL QB, especially a Ram's one).

Let's also hope that this year we will (finally) transfer some of the bodacious risk taking we've seen in this draft to the offensive game plan.

"Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack."
--Sun Tzu

 

[Ants]

Are people aware of Wentz' comp % when under pressure in just Div IIA Football. The stats out there for everything from velocity on the ball as Wentz throws 58 MPH to Goff's 57 MPH. Gil Brandt and PFF have measured it all. I think some here might have missed reading a few comparison facts. Trust me they have every comparison humanly possible done. By the way Gil Brandt along with so many is in the Goff is very special camp.

Both guys will have adjustments to make. One has so many more reps throwing its almost scary to compare. Goff has a 57 to 1 TD to int. ratio in the Redzone. One guys team won 5 National Championships in a row and he went 5-2 and hurt wrist and team then won 8-0 . Why are we not hunting that guy up ? We have a SUPER VERY SMALL sample size of passes thrown under pressure. Those stats are real,real bad. I know them but ask you to check them ALL out at PFF.

Footwork and accuracy are such rare gifts. Most never can get them down. What if you already had those things already in your favor and don't ypu think the adjustment will go smoother if your guy has them and has faced pressure of a much higher caliber and did better against it , than a weaker competition level? I will back Carson IF he is our pick but I will not expect to see him play as quickly as I would Goff with his polish. You think he was'nt under center in the rain when he lit up the RAMS practice field with Fisher watching. Brees has smaller hands than Goff so that won't stand up either as a problem.

Have you watched every game both have played? Neither is perfect. One played on a very bad team behind a bad O-line. The Bisons O-Line was dominant and thats why they ran the ball mostly. I have no clue who the Rams are taking but saying statements like one will transition better than the other is just crazy when all the stats and facts are brought in to play. We none here know what offense Fisher will decide to run this coming year besides surely with Play action to correctly use Gurley. I see so many missmatches with finally having an accurate passer on our team. Two years younger getting better every year ? I like all of Wentz' smarts and he will need every bit of them to help him along with working on his footwork. Quicker decision making is what made Warner successfull. Pre-snap reads. That is another area bro. Lets just wait 6 more days and see who we have to get behind. I have no clue who our guy is. Too much smoke to see through. I will back whomever and hope for the best. Some like potential over what one already has. Thats where they lose me. PEACE...

So does that mean you're ok with both Goff and Wentz?

 

[gabriel18]

I would've stayed put and got a WR and a TE and see which one of the second tier QB's fell to the second round , but I'm just a fan so I don't get the big bucks to make the call . Alot of holes left to fill now with no picks .

 

[CGI_Ram]

Both of these guys have strengths. I think both are worthy to be among the first 2 picks.

 

[Rynie]

I would have preferred we kept Bradford last year. But now we need help, and either of these QBs will be a big upgrade over what we have.

Dude, it's time to realize Bradford just isn't that great except for stealing a shitload of money from the NFL. lol

 

[IowaRam]

I'm 51/49 Goff

But I'm cool either way

 

[thirteen28]

I'm 51/49 Goff

But I'm cool either way

I'm more on the fence than you ... 50.1 Wentz, 49.9 Goff ... but I too am cool either way.

 

[Mackeyser]

Part of me wants a QB and part of me really wanted us to go Doctson in the 1st and load up on WR and TE talent like we did with OL last year as well ax fill in a bit with DT, S, CB and RB. I think Trey burned his bridges last year and Tre is burning his bridges as we speak.

It's moot, but I really wonder what our opening day WR roster will look like.

 

[PARAM]

Gil Brandt:

Yeah, he's off his nut I think. He mentioned being from Cali and going to L.A. as opposed to being from the Dakotas. "There's all that and the traffic, the 40 mile commute to work, it can be hard on some guys (read: sheltered, isolated folk) but Goff is from Cali. He will handle it well".

I'm fine with either IF this is a repeat of 2004 or 2008. If it's a repeat of 2011 or 2012 (or god forbid 1998; Leaf was originally from Montana ) then they better take the right guy. If it's like 2000 or 2002, it ain't gonna matter either way.

 

[dieterbrock]

LOL, you can think that if you like. It's a "flat earther" type of opinion, but whatever. It's a WCO. You don't have to buy it. It is.

You can call it an umbrella or a monster truck if you like.

But it's a WCO. That's a fact, plain and simple. And because the Rams run a hybrid WCO (I call it a quasi-WCO and that may be a semantics argument), and as such, it very much resembles what the Rams run.

There are arguments one can make for or against any number of QBs which, frankly are moot because Goff is for all intents and purposes a Ram, but what you've said isn't among them.

Flat earth? Watch a game and you're lying to say I'm wrong. I love Wentz as much as the next guy but the offense he ran is a QB option run offense. That's why he tucked the ball over 25% of his plays. Cam Newton doesn't even run close to that much.
It's not a "pro style" offense

 

[Ballhawk]

Wentz reminds me of Big Ben, Manning or Luck and Goff reminds me of Bradford.
That concerns me if they take Goff.