Elmgrovegnome
Legend
I think it is too early to throw in the towel on Goff based on a few starts on a bad team with a lousy scheme. He looked bad in his first year at Cal too.
Goff showed me alot against Arizona
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I think it is too early to throw in the towel on Goff based on a few starts on a bad team with a lousy scheme. He looked bad in his first year at Cal too.
Elmgrovegnome
Legend
A new coach isn't going to be tied to anyone. If he is then he is not the right guy for the job. But, I think many people here are being too impatient with Goff.
It's funny to see some already expressing serious doubts about Goff and even contemplating throwing in the towel. I still remember how many people wrote off Sam Bradford. Yet, this year he proved that he can be a solid starting QB in the NFL. He's 29 years old. His career went the way that Alex Smith's did. It took him until his late 20s to establish himself as a solid starting QB who you can win with.
I get it. With what we invested, we don't want to wait that long. I hope we don't have to wait that long. But there are certain realities of the QB position. One of those realities is that many QBs take years to develop. While they are young, you get a lot of uneven play. Let's consider Ben Roethlisberger. He had arguably the best rookie season of all time. Yet, Roethlisberger threw 18 TDs to 23 Ints in his third year in the NFL. Roethlisberger didn't develop into a consistently great QB until he was 27 to 28 years old.
Let's talk Peyton Manning. Manning had a very shaky rookie year. He followed that up with two stellar seasons. He followed those two stellar seasons up with two very average seasons (he averaged 21 picks over his 4th and 5th years in the NFL). Manning didn't develop into a consistently great QB until he was 27 to 28 years old.
Let's talk Drew Brees. Drew Brees sat his entire rookie year. He followed that up with two very mediocre seasons. The Chargers were ready to move on. Drew put together two good seasons in his 4th and 5th year in the NFL. It wasn't until he was 27 to 28 years old that he developed into the consistently great QB we know today.
Let's talk Matt Stafford. Like Jared Goff, he was a #1 overall pick. His rookie stats have some similarities to Goff's. Stafford put together some good and average seasons his first few years in the NFL. He was considered to be an inconsistent average to below average QB prior to the past two years. The past two years Stafford really turned a corner and has developed into one of the better starting QBs in the NFL. Coincidentally, that happened when he was 27 to 28 years old.
Let's talk Eli Manning. Manning was also a #1 overall pick. His rookie year was eerily similar to Goff. Eli's first four years in the NFL were very up and down. Some Giants fans were ready to move on until he led them to a Super Bowl win over the Patriots in 2007. In his 5th and 6th years in the NFL, Eli finally developed into the consistently good QB we know today. Eli was 27 to 28 years old at that point in his career.
I hope people are seeing the pattern here.
What's my point? Jared Goff is 22 years old. He has started 7 games on the offense that ranked 32nd in the NFL prior to him taking over. He started the majority of those 7 games with a bunch of guys who had given up on the season. He started those 7 games with poor pass protection, no running game, struggling WRs and TEs, and the worst OC in the NFL.
If you want to give up on him, go for it. It's an easy stance to take right now with no true downsides. If you're wrong, the Rams have a franchise QB and nobody cares. If you're right, you get to say, "Look, I told you so."
But I think it's absolutely silly to write a guy off after 7 starts. He doesn't look like Blaine Gabbert; he's not afraid to get hit. He isn't a lazy turd like JaMarcus Russell. At this point in time, there's no indication that this kid can't be exactly what everyone hopes he can be.
I hate to break it to you, but he's 22 years old. Unless Goff completely bombs, we won't know what he's capable of for at least another 5 or 6 years. That's simply the nature of QBing in the NFL. It takes guys a very long time to master the position. The simple truth is that even if Goff develops into a franchise QB, he'll likely be up and down over the next 4 to 6 years before finally settling in.
There is one tried and true method to speed that process up. It's surrounding Goff with talent. If you give him great protection and talented WRs, it'll make it a bit easier for him to be a more consistent QB.
I could sit here and show you all of the guys who struggled in their first 7 starts to prove that Goff's struggles don't close the book on his career. But it's unnecessary. The people who are ready to write him off won't care either ways. Some football fans are patient; some aren't.
I get it. With what we invested, we don't want to wait that long. I hope we don't have to wait that long. But there are certain realities of the QB position. One of those realities is that many QBs take years to develop. While they are young, you get a lot of uneven play. Let's consider Ben Roethlisberger. He had arguably the best rookie season of all time. Yet, Roethlisberger threw 18 TDs to 23 Ints in his third year in the NFL. Roethlisberger didn't develop into a consistently great QB until he was 27 to 28 years old.
Let's talk Peyton Manning. Manning had a very shaky rookie year. He followed that up with two stellar seasons. He followed those two stellar seasons up with two very average seasons (he averaged 21 picks over his 4th and 5th years in the NFL). Manning didn't develop into a consistently great QB until he was 27 to 28 years old.
Let's talk Drew Brees. Drew Brees sat his entire rookie year. He followed that up with two very mediocre seasons. The Chargers were ready to move on. Drew put together two good seasons in his 4th and 5th year in the NFL. It wasn't until he was 27 to 28 years old that he developed into the consistently great QB we know today.
Let's talk Matt Stafford. Like Jared Goff, he was a #1 overall pick. His rookie stats have some similarities to Goff's. Stafford put together some good and average seasons his first few years in the NFL. He was considered to be an inconsistent average to below average QB prior to the past two years. The past two years Stafford really turned a corner and has developed into one of the better starting QBs in the NFL. Coincidentally, that happened when he was 27 to 28 years old.
Let's talk Eli Manning. Manning was also a #1 overall pick. His rookie year was eerily similar to Goff. Eli's first four years in the NFL were very up and down. Some Giants fans were ready to move on until he led them to a Super Bowl win over the Patriots in 2007. In his 5th and 6th years in the NFL, Eli finally developed into the consistently good QB we know today. Eli was 27 to 28 years old at that point in his career.
I hope people are seeing the pattern here.
What's my point? Jared Goff is 22 years old. He has started 7 games on the offense that ranked 32nd in the NFL prior to him taking over. He started the majority of those 7 games with a bunch of guys who had given up on the season. He started those 7 games with poor pass protection, no running game, struggling WRs and TEs, and the worst OC in the NFL.
If you want to give up on him, go for it. It's an easy stance to take right now with no true downsides. If you're wrong, the Rams have a franchise QB and nobody cares. If you're right, you get to say, "Look, I told you so."
But I think it's absolutely silly to write a guy off after 7 starts. He doesn't look like Blaine Gabbert; he's not afraid to get hit. He isn't a lazy turd like JaMarcus Russell. At this point in time, there's no indication that this kid can't be exactly what everyone hopes he can be.
I hate to break it to you, but he's 22 years old. Unless Goff completely bombs, we won't know what he's capable of for at least another 5 or 6 years. That's simply the nature of QBing in the NFL. It takes guys a very long time to master the position. The simple truth is that even if Goff develops into a franchise QB, he'll likely be up and down over the next 4 to 6 years before finally settling in.
There is one tried and true method to speed that process up. It's surrounding Goff with talent. If you give him great protection and talented WRs, it'll make it a bit easier for him to be a more consistent QB.
I could sit here and show you all of the guys who struggled in their first 7 starts to prove that Goff's struggles don't close the book on his career. But it's unnecessary. The people who are ready to write him off won't care either ways. Some football fans are patient; some aren't.
What sort of fire do you want to see? Something like a QB lowering his shoulder in a blowout to get his team into the end-zone? Something like a QB taking a massive hit while running towards the end-zone because he refused to get out of bounds, then hopping back up, going back to the huddle, and having to be ordered off the field per NFL policy? Something like a QB getting visibly angry when a WR is not where he's supposed to be or when the QB makes a bad throw?
I just don't get it. Goff is killing himself out there. Goff has visibly shown emotion at a number of points on the field. Goff has shown emotion in press conferences. Goff is trying to take a leadership role in the locker room. But "he looks like he doesn't care?" No, I can't say I've ever gotten that impression from him. Certainly not after watching his 7 starts where he's gotten beat to hell but refused to stay down. Certainly not after seeing him put his body on the line unnecessarily in blowouts to help this team score.
If you want to see a guy who looks like he doesn't care, watch Brian Quick over the last two games. Watch him half-ass routes. Watch him drop passes. Watch him fail to secure catches when a defender breathes on him. That's a guy who doesn't care.
Don't judge a book by its cover.
shaunpinney
Hall of Fame
I'm not concerned about the fact that Goff COULD be a good (if not elite) QB in the NFL, I've mentioned about his age in a number of other posts. I just hope that he'll have the supporting cast AND more importantly the guiding hand and vision of a great coaching team that is willing and able to develop this young QB.
With this n mind @jrry32 would you have sat him for the whole of this season? we knew where it was going and have kept Keenum with Mannion as the #2? It may have been worth red-shirting tis year for him and seeing whether or not Mannion is a viable starter / backup.
Nah. I would have done the opposite. There's a lot I would have changed. I would have brought in a real OC rather than hiring Boras. I would have brought in a real OC who could have implemented a system designed to help Goff succeed. That's what I would have looked for in potential OCs after last year. I recognize that we didn't have Goff when we were looking at OCs, but we had to know that we were planning to trade up for a QB.
I think they wasted valuable snaps by waiting as long as they did. And I think they did Goff a real disservice by handling this situation the way they did. Every single part of the way they handled things was a failure. They shouldn't have promoted from within again. They shouldn't have tried to add to this broken scheme (should have scrapped it and started anew). They shouldn't have kept the overly complicated aspects of Schotty's offense. They should have made Goff the starter immediately after drafting him and thrown support behind him. They should have given him as many snaps with the 1s as they could. They should have simplified the system and designed it around his strengths.
I can go on all night with what we should have done. Simply put, we took a QB at #1 overall and then did absolutely nothing to help him. We walked him over to the deep end of the pool, tossed him in, and said "swim." That's not the right way to handle things. But it speaks to Fisher's old school, antiquated way of thinking. That's the frustrating thing. Fisher just didn't evolve as the game and other coaches did.
shaunpinney
Hall of Fame
I'm with you on the OC front - I'm never a big fan of hiring from within, from an unsuccessful system anyway. And the fact that they went "all-in" on the draft to pick their QB that should have had a system that would make that QB look like a football god. We all knew they'd moved up to #1 very early on, they would have know tat was their intention for a long time before that.
I thought with Boras we'd see much more TE play similar to what the Pats used to do with Gronk and Hernandez...
I wish things would have been handled differently, but I guess they weren't - I'll never understand why the #1 pick sat for most of the season, but he did.
Lets hope that things will be different this offseason and the new HC can bring in fresh blood to the coaching staff - i think there are too many 'old-boys' at the Rams HQ.
Yeah, I know. He's had 24 starts since being drafted 5 years ago, so he's a 'vet'. Ask yourself though, would you want Goff's development to include 2 teams, 3 head coaches and 4 coordinators in his first 5 years? I can freely admit that Keenum is a backup quality guy who can bridge a team or fill-in after an injury to the starter, but I summarily dismiss the 'veteran' angle people keep throwing out there. As if that's supposed to mean he's taken the normal veteran path in the NFL. But yeah, we've seen his ceiling. He has limitations that will keep him as a 2nd tier guy, and that's fine. If a guy can account for 4 TD's (personally) in a game on THIS kind of team, then he should have a fairly prosperous career -- even as a backup.
Again not doubting that at all, but sometimes you can see ability instantaneously, however, with Jared Thomas Goff I am still waiting and again that is JMHO. The Saints game he showed some ability every other game he did not.
I don't throw in the towel, however, I am anxious to see if the Rams do hire an offensive coach what their take is on Goff. For example if the Rams hired Kyle Shanahan and Shanahan stated that Goff has all the intangibles and ability to be an upper echelon Quarterback then I will go to sleep with a smile on my face, but I am interested to get a different prospective.
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shaunpinney
Hall of Fame
If the system had developed over the season, I think this could have been a winning season for the Rams, with Keenum starting - our problem was that DCs worked out our system and our OC didn't evolve - coupled with the fact that our D fell far short of it's potential this year - I don't think this season is down to Keenum at all.
He was a true team captain and gent throughout the season and looked like he gave his all at all times, made some beautiful passes and plays, which people seem to brush under the carpet...
I'm calling pure BS ... how can you watch the kid play and not see fire did you not see him get rocked the other week running in a TD and getting absolutely rocked .. if he didn't care he wouldn't do that
There was a running play and he was out that run blocking for cripes sake
And the play against Seattle when Sherman cleaned his clock
goff cares about winning even the stuff he says in the pressers show he cares it beats we will look at the tape and get it fixed
This is a great summary of the dysfunction of Fisher's approach to offense, and Exhibit A as to why he's no longer the head coach for this team. He and his offensive staff screwed up at almost every turn.
Not gonna read all the comments....just page one b4 my own thoughts...
I the last 2 games, Goff threw interceptions early...maybe 2nd or 3rd drives in the game. Poorly placed. B4 he even began to get hit much. Like he has terrible preparations...and hadn't worked with the receivers (Kenny Britt). Simple slants. B4 he began to get really hit. IDK...You go in games throwing picks that early on open plays...Just shows me a kid just throwing the ball without much plan/care. Kinda of a chuck & duck philosophy. Not my idea of standing tough in the pocket.
Call me a homer, but I still believe this...A real QB can lift the play of those around them.
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And the crazy thing in all of this, is that Fisher professed that this was what he didn't want to do. "Play him when he's ready" nonsense.
QB don't get ready by osmosis. In looking back at the way things went, if you took the name off the back of the jersey and saw how things were handled, you'd think that Keenum was the prized rookie and Goff, just fighting for a roster spot.
That doesn't happen anywhere else
Dieter the Brock
Fourth responder
Any post I make here is getting instantly deleted
I have not violated any rules in this board yet keep getting my posts erased
I have not violated any rules in this board yet keep getting my posts erased
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That one was me, DTB.
Let's move on, please. I am available to discuss by PM.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #58
Goff is very talented and obviously he needs to improve but that won't happen until he is put into the right system . They need to establish a quick read and throw system that utilizes his accuracy and arm strength. He's only 22 but he has the intangibles and leadership that Sam Bradford lacks , I still love him as the franchise and even Brady would look horrible with the offense we used this year .
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #59
I seen all of the Bulger years and he looked good because of the wr and offensive game plan. I don't blame Foles anymore because that offense destroyed his confidence .
