Eric Dickerson on Goff vs. Mannion

[OldSchool]

Lol this is the perfect case everybody was applauding Dickerson last year but as soon as it's Mannion vs Goff all hell breaks loose. Lol he only said what I have been saying for the longest.

So because I agree with 1 opinion a person has I have to agree with all of their opinions? ED is welcome to express his opinions. I'm just as welcome to express my opinions about them. And I'm just as open to being criticized for having my own opinions. But having followed ED for 30+ years I know he's good at running his mouth. And I hope he never stops doing it either.

 

[Dxmissile]

I'm out here in Punta Cana for my wife's birthday and the first time I get on internet I see this post. She's in the spa right now so I gotta get all of this out so here it goes..

 

[Dxmissile]

When I watched Mannion in college the way he directed traffic the way he moved inside the pocket and the way he throws I saw NFL starter. I saw a big guy with an NFL arm and a NFL head to be a QB. When we drafted him O thought perfect a 3rd pick that can be actually serviceable until the rest of the roster catches up. My problem with the Goff pick is and was that I thought it was made out of desperation and too be flashy to cause more excitement with the move back to LA. I strongly believe that if the team was in STL then Mannion would have been the next man up.

I don't dislike Goff as a player or person he just isn't the QB we needed. He is the type of QB that needs to have things already established because he has a much steeper learning curve then others. Mannion on the other hand is ready for a team that's as dysfunctional as our team is. He can weather the storm and with an upgraded roster can take us into the playoffs.

I remember getting killed on here for even suggesting that McVay would want a competition between everyone on the roster. I fully expect Goff to get every chance he can to prove himself and that's going to push Mannion even more to show that he is better.

This preseason is going to be one of the most exciting ones to watch because of all the intrigue if Goff can show his improvement I'm going to be extremely excited for the guy and the team if not I know Mannion is ready and waiting

 

[Dxmissile]

So because I agree with 1 opinion a person has I have to agree with all of their opinions? ED is welcome to express his opinions. I'm just as welcome to express my opinions about them. And I'm just as open to being criticized for having my own opinions. But having followed ED for 30+ years I know he's good at running his mouth. And I hope he never stops doing it either.

I never made this about you, but the statement is definitely true it was ok for him to criticize Fisher and in fact he still was when he stated that he was on the sideline asking why he wasn't playing, that has nothing to do with McVay.

Him saying he would start Mannion isn't saying for the whole year it could be until Goff is more prepared to be a starter in the NFL.

Whether people wanna believe it or not a lot of people close to the organization wanted to play Mannion it's been to much chatter on the entire debate so where there is smoke there is fire.

 

[bluecoconuts]

Lots of things change in a year. For example a guy who was brand new to the NFL might be comfortable after a year... But that's just a crazy thought.

 

[OldSchool]

Him saying he would start Mannion isn't saying for the whole year it could be until Goff is more prepared to be a starter in the NFL.

Whether people wanna believe it or not a lot of people close to the organization wanted to play Mannion it's been to much chatter on the entire debate so where there is smoke there is fire.

And with starting Mannion until Goff is more prepared we're back to the debate of getting prepared by taking 1st team reps in camp and 1st team reps in preseason vs watching somebody else do it. We get Goff prepared by making him the #1 in camp as McVay has said countless times since taking the job. Starting Mannion a game or two over Goff and giving him 1st team reps over Goff is counter productive. Not to mention right now Goff is a better QB.

I believe people wanted to start Mannion over Goff I also believe there are people in this organization now and last year that really didn't belong making those decisions. Should I be impressed having seen what they did as coaches to hear that Boras and Weinke wanted to start Mannion over Goff? First blush that just makes me like Goff more.

I have a theory how last year went down and it's just my theory doesn't make it right or wrong and add's nothing to the discussion but here it is. Fisher wanted to stick with Keenum and Mannion because he was approaching the end of his contract and needed W's to stick around. He didn't feel grooming the franchises future would get him the W's to afford him the best chance to stay. Not only that but an offense that would look ok with Keenum and Mannion doesn't take advantage of a better QB like Goff. He did everything in his power in the off season to stick with Keenum so that he could get his extension. He didn't bring in people to coach up a young QB. He didn't work the offense to help a young QB like the coaching staffs in Dallas and Philly did. He wanted nothing to do with Goff.

On the other hand Snead, Demoff and if you want to include him though he's been notoriously quiet about daily operations Kroenke recognized the need for a young talented QB. The NFL is a QB league now and a guy like Keenum or Mannion hardly instill fear in opposing teams. They also recognized the fact they were moving into a new market they needed a face to the organization and it being a QB league decided that face should be a blonde haired California born QB. Everybody around here recognized the sudden disappearance of Snead once camp hit. Snead recognized what Fisher was doing and was vocal about it. Fisher having been given as much control as he was when hired flexed those muscles and Demoff and Kroenke asked Snead to lay low.

These two differing visions led us to the crash course 4-12 season that we had last year and saw Fisher shown the door. As soon as that happened Snead was much more visible. Again it's just my "conspiracy theory" opinion on what happened but I don't think Fisher ever wanted the QB and didn't do anything to get him ready for the season. That's what cost him his job. If he'd have started Goff from the get go and made an effort to get him ready he might still be our coach.

 

[den-the-coach]

This preseason is going to be one of the most exciting ones to watch because of all the intrigue if Goff can show his improvement I'm going to be extremely excited for the guy and the team if not I know Mannion is ready and waiting

And if this happens, it's not a bad thing. If Mannion turns into Kirk Cousins, how is that bad? All of us want Goff to succeed and to be the next Otto Graham (yeah I like going old school on you guys) so if Goff proves to be that guy all of us will be whistling Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah out of our derrière, but if Mannion is here to save the day then I will be very happy too and FWIW's if Dan Orlovsky gets any where near the final 53 barring injury, I'm jumping off the Tallahatchie Bridge.

 

[Dxmissile]

And with starting Mannion until Goff is more prepared we're back to the debate of getting prepared by taking 1st team reps in camp and 1st team reps in preseason vs watching somebody else do it. We get Goff prepared by making him the #1 in camp as McVay has said countless times since taking the job. Starting Mannion a game or two over Goff and giving him 1st team reps over Goff is counter productive. Not to mention right now Goff is a better QB.

I believe people wanted to start Mannion over Goff I also believe there are people in this organization now and last year that really didn't belong making those decisions. Should I be impressed having seen what they did as coaches to hear that Boras and Weinke wanted to start Mannion over Goff? First blush that just makes me like Goff more.

I have a theory how last year went down and it's just my theory doesn't make it right or wrong and add's nothing to the discussion but here it is. Fisher wanted to stick with Keenum and Mannion because he was approaching the end of his contract and needed W's to stick around. He didn't feel grooming the franchises future would get him the W's to afford him the best chance to stay. Not only that but an offense that would look ok with Keenum and Mannion doesn't take advantage of a better QB like Goff. He did everything in his power in the off season to stick with Keenum so that he could get his extension. He didn't bring in people to coach up a young QB. He didn't work the offense to help a young QB like the coaching staffs in Dallas and Philly did. He wanted nothing to do with Goff.

On the other hand Snead, Demoff and if you want to include him though he's been notoriously quiet about daily operations Kroenke recognized the need for a young talented QB. The NFL is a QB league now and a guy like Keenum or Mannion hardly instill fear in opposing teams. They also recognized the fact they were moving into a new market they needed a face to the organization and it being a QB league decided that face should be a blonde haired California born QB. Everybody around here recognized the sudden disappearance of Snead once camp hit. Snead recognized what Fisher was doing and was vocal about it. Fisher having been given as much control as he was when hired flexed those muscles and Demoff and Kroenke asked Snead to lay low.

These two differing visions led us to the crash course 4-12 season that we had last year and saw Fisher shown the door. As soon as that happened Snead was much more visible. Again it's just my "conspiracy theory" opinion on what happened but I don't think Fisher ever wanted the QB and didn't do anything to get him ready for the season. That's what cost him his job. If he'd have started Goff from the get go and made an effort to get him ready he might still be our coach.

I respect what you're saying but you're making assumptions about Mannion's ability he'll for that matter we both are. I think Mannion is better you think Goff is better. You said that Mannion don't instill fear in opposing coordinators which is true because he haven't played but we KNOW Goff doesn't because he had 7 games. And since Goff is the better QB he should have looked better then Mannion and should have performed better no matter the circumstances the offense got worse when Goff played. That's not all on the coaches not all on scheme a lot of that has to be put on Goff too.

I'm happy that Goff is getting all the reps but Mannion has been getting a lot too more then he has at any point of his career. I firmly believe that's why McVay and co only wanted to have those two on the roster to give them both as many reps as possible.

I know Goff is better then I think, but Mannion is better then you give him credit for too

 

[dieterbrock]

Goff was very good in college when most of the team wasn't very good. He was the best player on his team as a freshman and his senior year no offensive line no running game and his receivers only had 75 yards between them going into that year

I agree with you, however Goff didn't play as a senior

 

[Dxmissile]

And if this happens, it's not a bad thing. If Mannion turns into Kirk Cousins, how is that bad? All of us want Goff to succeed and to be the next Otto Graham (yeah I like going old school on you guys) so if Goff proves to be that guy all of us will be whistling Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah out of our derrière, but if Mannion is here to save the day then I will be very happy too and FWIW's if Dan Orlovsky gets any where near the final 53 barring injury, I'm jumping off the Tallahatchie Bridge.

I'm actually happy with our QB situation I like Mannion better but I'm not going hold back admiration for Goff cause I just want to win no matter who it is.honestly I just like this topic because people on both sides are passionate about their guy

 

[rdw]

Ahhh, there's nothing greater than a good old fashioned QB vs QB vs ex-player vs ex-coach vs new coach post.

 

[Dxmissile]

I agree with you, however Goff didn't play as a senior

Lol Goff definitely had the better numbers because he played in a QB friendly system and Mannion didn't if you put Mannion in that system he outplays Goff

 

[dieterbrock]

Lol Goff definitely had the better numbers because he played in a QB friendly system and Mannion didn't if you put Mannion in that system he outplays Goff

In what universe? Goff had no oline. Mannion sucked for 2 years then had great year because of his receivers then sucked again. Goff go better every year and so did the team. Without his Junior year, Mannion isn't even in the NFL

 

[Dxmissile]

In what universe? Goff had no oline. Mannion sucked for 2 years then had great year because of his receivers then sucked again. Goff go better every year and so did the team. Without his Junior year, Mannion isn't even in the NFL

Like you said so did Goff team, Mannion didn't have a team and he made Weaton good, and Cooks he got both of them the ball and got both of them drafted, he spend 1 quarter with Spruce and got him to stick around on a NFL roster lol I think receivers love playing with a guy like that

 

[Afro Ram]

Yet Mannion has done something to prove he's worth a damn? I don't get this line of thought, you don't like Goff so some how Mannion has proven to be good? He's had his chances and failed to deliver too. Goff has a much better skill set than Mannion and it will be proven this year.

I clearly stated in my post "If Mannion looks better than Goff he should start." I seen what Jared can do and that's all I can judge him on. In my mind there's still at least HOPE for Sean.

 

[dieterbrock]

Like you said so did Goff team, Mannion didn't have a team and he made Weaton good, and Cooks he got both of them the ball and got both of them drafted, he spend 1 quarter with Spruce and got him to stick around on a NFL roster lol I think receivers love playing with a guy like that

Goff was the straw that stirred the drink, when he got better, so did the team. As soon as he left, the team tanked. Mannion was awful in his senior year when the team need him to step up

 

[Dxmissile]

Goff was the straw that stirred the drink, when he got better, so did the team. As soon as he left, the team tanked. Mannion was awful in his senior year when the team need him to step up

You can't step up with no run game no offensive line no wide receivers just can't happen especially when you running a pro style offense no if it was a spread system which is notoriously QB friendly just ask Keenum then it would be different

 

[nighttrain]

huge argument for Goff in above stats
train

stats i was referring to
What? In three years, Goff posted 96 TDs to 30 Ints. In four years, Mannion posted 83 TDs to 54 Ints. In what world is there an argument for Mannion based on college stats?

train

 

[Dxmissile]

Three training camps now worth of chances? Every preseason game he's been in? If he hasn't impressed enough yet how are we to believe he's suddenly going to be better than Goff? And sorry but color me shocked a 2nd year QB was better at line calls and had a better grasp of the offense than a rookie. We know what Mannion is, he's a backup with a mediocre arm, a slow release and he's slow of foot. He's the next version of Sean Hill, Kellen Clemens, Matt Moore, Charlie Batch, etc etc etc

Where do people get this mediocre arm from. We have gone over this so many times Goff velocity is 1 point higher then Mannions, Mannion throws a much better deep ball their accuracy and arm strength is about even so if Mannion arm is mediocre so is Goffs.

You say he is slow footed but Mannion knows how to move in the pocket to shift his shoulders and slide around the pocket to get his throw off something Goff hasn't shown the ability to do.

Goff is much better outside the pocket throwing running but inside the pocket Mannion is the better QB

Then you mention the training camps Mannion was on scout team basically every year because Fisher don't start rookie QBs he wanted Mannion to learn the ropes this is basically Mannions first real training camp just like Goff

 

[Dxmissile]

stats i was referring to
What? In three years, Goff posted 96 TDs to 30 Ints. In four years, Mannion posted 83 TDs to 54 Ints. In what world is there an argument for Mannion based on college stats?

train

One played pro style the other played in spread it's not harder to tell who should have better stats look at Keenum college career