Do They Really Need an Edge?

[BonifayRam]

Gotta leave folks something to bitch about.

Yep, I will be directing some of that at you if you do not get your padded lawn chair set up nearest the edge defenders in TC this summer too!

 

[PARAM]

I would not shirt change what Von Miller did as a Ram. His play was at the ULTIMATE.
Now if your talking Eric Weedle & what he meant to The Rams,I’d say just about as much.Nick Scott really showed confidence & trusted the play calls allowing him to play more Free.
The Rams have the same Edge guys as last season. It was the inexperience & health that held those players back.
I expect Big Time improvement from Hollins,Garrett, & T. Lewis. Adding another young player will also be in the cards.Lawler & OBo both were ascending players who knew the defense.Those players were hurt as well.
Hollins In Training Camp was the Best of the group. I expect him to play at a high level with Floyd.

I'm not short changing anything. Before Von Miller joined the Rams on the field, they had 28 sacks in 9 games (3.1/g). After Miller hit the field, the Rams had 22 sacks in the last 8 games (2.7/g). But of course, his contribution was more than statistics. It was leadership and less pressure on Floyd and Donald. In the postseason 12 in 4 games (3.0/g) and that was with the benefit of 7 vs the Bengals terrible O line. As far as vs the run, the first 9 games without VM, 99.5/g. The last 8 with him 107.2/g. No shortchange at all.

However, I think many fans are OVERSTATING his impact. He was an additional piece. An extra. A boost. A postseason phenom. The fact they tried to resign him wasn't so much because he played Edge but more so because he was Von Miller. Certainly the main reason they obtained him in the first place. Bring in Houston, or Clowney or Ingram and it's not going to be the same thing. In fact, I'd venture, not even close. We don't NEED Edge, although it would have been nice to have Von Miller.

 

[majrleaged]

I think we really don't need an edge right now. Lewis and Hollins are unknowns in terms of wether or not they can hold down the edge for a season. But unknowns as we have seen, Allen for instance, are not necessarily bad. Lewis has flashed huge potential and Hollins before the injury was doing a good enough job. Even though they are hoping to repeat, I can see them trying to rely on the edge players they have going into the season. Giving their depth a chance to elevate is something the Rams do. If they don't work out, the Rams seem to be able to come up with a trade or a way to compensate for it schematically. I think Wagner makes the Edge a little easier to compensate for.

I think there biggest weakness on the team is the defensive back field. I am not sure they are prepared to rely on Rochel. They really like him, but he missed most of the season with injury. If they can improve the D in free angency some how, I think that is where they do it. Especially with the unknowns at edge.

 

[majrleaged]

We must realize, though there seems to always be a surprise acquisition from these guys (Suh, Floyd, Miller, OBJ, Robinson, Wagner) it doesn't happen everytime. They're not magicians. Many Ram fans expect a vet edge replacement and that just might not happen. Maybe Wagner is the vet replacement for Miller, albeit at another position. Sure, Hunter or Clowney or Ingram or any big name would be great but do we really NEED that and should we EXPECT it? I think they've done damn well replacing some of our losses. Better than most defending champs do.

Noteboom for Whit
Robinson for Woods
Wagner for Miller

hopefully OBJ for OBJ

Corbett? Mundt? SJD? DWill? Maybe not the big losses we perceive them to be. In house, the draft or post draft free agents might fill those slots. Do we really need an Edge? We have Floyd, Garrett, Hollins and TLew. None are a in the twilight of their Superbowl Championship career and will serve as inspiration to AD, Floyd and the rest, but so what? They don't "need" that anymore.

But I guess it never hurts to dream big.

Free angency can be like the Draft. Best player available. lost miller so instead of freaking out and grabbing a TuTu. They got the best player available and he will have the backs of the Dline making them better. Not the same as miller just different.

 

[OregonRamsFan]

Do we need an EDGE to win another SB? Who knows? I don’t. Maybe Garrett, Hollins or another brings the heat this year. But I’ll tell you what, selfishly I am going to miss VM turning the corner in the fourth quarter. He was a lot of fun to watch. With BWags in there now, a really good edge gives us a hell of a D. Trust Snead.

 

[OldSchool]

Seems two guys that haven't been able to stay healthy are the Rams best option opposite Floyd. Color me unimpressed with those options.

 

[PARAM]

Seems two guys that haven't been able to stay healthy are the Rams best option opposite Floyd. Color me unimpressed with those options.

Some fans are counting on TLew and Hollins but some fans are counting on Chris Garrett, 7th round Snead steal. Sometimes, you gotta believe, I've actually seen what my eyes just saw.

 

[simonblaze]

Do they really need an edge?

Yes.

 

[OldSchool]

Some fans are counting on TLew and Hollins but some fans are counting on Chris Garrett, 7th round Snead steal. Sometimes, you gotta believe, I've actually seen what my eyes just saw.

So instead of two guys who can't stay healthy we're relying on a 7th round "steal" based on preseason tape? Point from before stands. He was good in preseason against what 3rd or 4th stringers? Hopefully his coaches and Von did a Hall of Fame level job and got him ready in one season. Still not a good plan IMO and I also liked what I saw from him when the games didn't count. We have to since he wasn't good enough last year to ever see the field with being active for 1 game and not seeing any action in that 1 game.

 

[PARAM]

So instead of two guys who can't stay healthy we're relying on a 7th round "steal" based on preseason tape? Point from before stands. He was good in preseason against what 3rd or 4th stringers? Hopefully his coaches and Von did a Hall of Fame level job and got him ready in one season. Still not a good plan IMO and I also liked what I saw from him when the games didn't count. We have to since he wasn't good enough last year to ever see the field with being active for 1 game and not seeing any action in that 1 game.

No. You're right. We really gonna miss that guy who played 8 regular season games and 4 postseason games for us. Damn lucky I guess.....or we would have been out in the first or second round of the postseason. My god, it's not like the Rams D with those two off injured players sucked. We were 7-2 without Miller, who was injured on the Broncos and 5-3 with Miller on our defense! Von Miller came with such an impeccable resume a SB MVP legend.....that most Ram fans bought the idea Von would like us to believe. He was worth 20 mil a year and those other guys were chopped liver. I think some fans are OVER HYPING having VM on the defense or Houston or Clowney or Ingram at Edge. FWIW, Garrett didn't look good in the preseason against the 2's and 3's. He looked like a man among boys. Which gives me confidence with a year spent in the weight room and practicing with the Rams, he'll be a decent OLB/Edge vs regular NFL players. Not Von Miller but then who could we acquire who would be as good as the legendary 20 million a year Von Miller?

 

[norcalramfan]

I’m in a wait and see mode with the addition of Wagner.

 

[OldSchool]

No. You're right. We really gonna miss that guy who played 8 regular season games and 4 postseason games for us. Damn lucky I guess.....or we would have been out in the first or second round of the postseason. My god, it's not like the Rams D with those two off injured players sucked. We were 7-2 without Miller, who was injured on the Broncos and 5-3 with Miller on our defense! Von Miller came with such an impeccable resume a SB MVP legend.....that most Ram fans bought the idea Von would like us to believe. He was worth 20 mil a year and those other guys were chopped liver. I think some fans are OVER HYPING having VM on the defense or Houston or Clowney or Ingram at Edge. FWIW, Garrett didn't look good in the preseason against the 2's and 3's. He looked like a man among boys. Which gives me confidence with a year spent in the weight room and practicing with the Rams, he'll be a decent OLB/Edge vs regular NFL players. Not Von Miller but then who could we acquire who would be as good as the legendary 20 million a year Von Miller?

Oh excellent analysis because we clearly lost those 3 games he was on the roster because of him. Wins aren't a QB stat but clearly they're an Edge rusher stat excellent analysis.

His first game with us was a loss, and he was still recovering from his ankle injury a fact you conveniently left out of your previous analysis of our defenses overall sack production last year, our QB threw 2 very costly interceptions one returned for a TD and overall the team played like total shit against the Niners but yeah lets hold it against Von that we lost that game.

His second game with us when again he was still recovering from an ankle injury we lost on the road to the team that would get the #1 seed in the NFC when again our QB turns the ball over twice the team plays like shit this game mostly just in the first half and one of his turnovers was again a pick 6. But yes by all means lets hold it against Von.

I think some fans aren't giving Von enough credit. Do I think we need him back? No because if the CB's are upgraded opposite Jalen the pass rush by default gets better. But it's absolutely comical that you would say that and put Garrett on a pedestal for his performance in glorified practices against 3rd and 4th stringers. He should look like a man amongst boys playing against guys that never made the 53 man roster who also took as many snaps in the regular season as he did. Look Garrett may be all world in the end but to sit here and say he is great and give you confidence based off the preseason but Von Miller doesn't might be the absolutely most asinine comment ever posted on this board.

I don't think we need another player the level of Von, I've stated this multiple times along with many others around here, but to go into the season with two guys who can't stay healthy and one guy who couldn't get on the field last year isn't the kind of thing a Super Bowl contender does. There has to be a better plan than this.

 

[PARAM]

No Miller didn't cost us those games. Did TLew? Hollins? Garrett on the bench?

Okay, you think we have to have a vet Edge rusher. So who should we sign?

At the beginning of free agency there were about 10 guys with resumes who were available. 6 of them have been signed (Miller, Gregory, Jones, Ogbah, Reddick and Landry). 4 are left. Clowney, Ingram, Houston and Hughes. Those last 3 are going into their 12th year, 12th year and 13th year of their careers. And they've each experienced a severe drop off in production, both in sacks and TFL. They all been paid well and their contract projections are: Ingram 8 mil, Houston 7 mil, Hughes 6.5 mil. Clowney, the only one with any youth left (going into his 9th season) is estimated at 15 mil. All of them have missed time the last 4 years. I'd rather McSnead not get as desperate as Ram fans seem to be and overpay for shitty production from old men. I know, I know, EVERYBODY plays great next to Aaron Donald. But most of them were much younger.....Fowler, Floyd, etc....except for Miller (11th year).

So who are these guys we should sign? The top 20 edge rushers (in sacks) in 2021 are signed. Of the next 10, only Clowney is available. So who should we sign? Clowney is about the only guy and that's taking a huge chance. Would he take 5 mil? Charles Harris?

 

[KA210927]

Yes they could use another proven edge. Right now it could work out but there is some pressure on people to perform who has never done it before. Same goes for CB position. We really could use another few bodies in both Edge/cb rooms to solidify the defense.

 

[PARAM]

Yes they could use another proven edge. Right now it could work out but there is some pressure on people to perform who has never done it before. Same goes for CB position. We really could use another few bodies in both Edge/cb rooms to solidify the defense.

I have no doubt they're going to choose a CB and an Edge rusher in the draft. But as far as UFA's, the guys who could be good pickups are too expensive and the guys who may be affordable are waaaay past their prime. But with Snead/Demoff/Pastors you never know. They could squeeze somebody in under the cap. It would probably take a helluva big squeeze though.

 

[Allen2McVay]

They could squeeze somebody in under the cap. It would probably take a helluva big squeeze though.

I don't know about that. The Rams have $7M of cap space but need just $2M for their draft-class.

They are expected to extend both Donald and Kupp. Those two currently count for more than $45M of cap space. Re-worked contracts should significantly reduce that number. At that point, the Rams should have plenty of 2022 salary cap space.

Not sure what they may do with it but maybe a trade where they take-on a contract that another team wants to dump.

 

[PARAM]

I don't know about that. The Rams have $7M of cap space but need just $2M for their draft-class.

They are expected to extend both Donald and Kupp. Those two currently count for more than $45M of cap space. Re-worked contracts should significantly reduce that number. At that point, the Rams should have plenty of 2022 salary cap space.

Not sure what they may do with it but maybe a trade where they take-on a contract that another team wants to dump.

Yeah, anything is possible.

 

[PARAM]

I think some fans aren't giving Von enough credit. Do I think we need him back? No because if the CB's are upgraded opposite Jalen the pass rush by default gets better. But it's absolutely comical that you would say that and put Garrett on a pedestal for his performance in glorified practices against 3rd and 4th stringers. He should look like a man amongst boys playing against guys that never made the 53 man roster who also took as many snaps in the regular season as he did. Look Garrett may be all world in the end but to sit here and say he is great and give you confidence based off the preseason but Von Miller doesn't might be the absolutely most asinine comment ever posted on this board.

I don't think we need another player the level of Von, I've stated this multiple times along with many others around here, but to go into the season with two guys who can't stay healthy and one guy who couldn't get on the field last year isn't the kind of thing a Super Bowl contender does. There has to be a better plan than this.

Never said Garrett was "great" and never put him on a pedestal. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Never said I wasn't confident in Miller or what he did for us. I said, I was "counting on Garrett" and encouraged that with a year in the weight room and on the practice field, he might be a decent OLB. So we have two trains of thought. I think banking on the players we have (read: young and talented) rather then overpaying for some old resume on the downside of his career is the better choice. But you want to spend Kroenke's money on UFA's who may or may not work out. We were 7-2 before we realized we needed Von Miller.

 

[Ram65]

Which is why of all the vets which might be acquired is Hunter. He's only 27 so they can give him a full contract. He would be a worthy successor to Von. But other than that they aren't going to pick up a plug n play edge in the mid rounds. I can see them offering Hollins in a trade with the Vikings. They get a vet pass rusher with a low cap of less than $1M.

Other than something like that I think they will roll with who they have.

Hunter and the Vikings have restructured his contract. They would have a lot of dead money even with a post-June 1 trade.

Danielle Hunter Contract Details, Salary Cap Charges, Bonus Money, and Contract History | Over The Cap

Danielle Hunter contract and salary cap details, including signing bonus, guaranteed salary, dead money, roster bonuses, and contract history

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[Ram65]

The eye test for me was a lack of consistent pressure before Miller got healthy in Horns. When the blocking schemes took out AD the QBs had time to expose the weak zone coverage. Floyd doesn't move the needle by himself. Jones and Wagner are available to blitz but, are not edge rushers.

It's possible that Holland, TLew, and Garrett can make a nice tag team. They all have question marks. Bringing back Morgan Fox might help the rotation.

All in all, I think they can afford another move or two. Round and round we go. Edge and or CB.