And we can't do anything unless we dump this guy.
View: https://twitter.com/RamsONDEMAND/status/712845736719691776
View: https://twitter.com/RamsONDEMAND/status/712845736719691776
Case Keenum is going to ruin Todd Gurley who will ruin Sam Bradford
- Thread starter JackDRams
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Elmgrovegnome
Legend
I don't know how much it matters who Keenum is. Fisher has to realize the need to upgrade the position. We like to joke that he knows nothing about QBs but he is an NFL coach. He can't possibly think Keenum is a good quality starter. But, there is a good chance the Rams end up starting him for much of the season unless they pick Goff or Cook. I don't think Fisher is going to start a rookie right away. So, Keenum is probably our guy for a good portion of the season. Ill just hope he can improve on some things.
Spare me the disingenuous argument. Warner got zero starts in 1998.
I don't care to hear anymore about the talent Warner had. He posted the second best passing season in NFL history to that point, he won two MVPs that year, and he led the Rams to a Super Bowl victory. I don't give a shit what talent he had. Warner was a HOF caliber QB. Keenum is not. Don't insult Warner's memory by comparing Keenum to him.
It would be like me comparing Daryl Richardson to Eric Dickerson. "It's not fair to Daryl Richardson because he didn't have the OL that Dickerson had."
That's not relevant to my point. Keenum was on the team so he had some understanding of the offense and some chemistry with the players. Despite the fact that we changed OCs, from all reports, we kept the same system and most of the playbook intact.(but we "simplified" it)
Keenum was not in his first year with the Rams. To try and frame it that way is dishonest. The toughest parts of being in your first year with the team are learning the system and building chemistry with teammates. Keenum had both those things.
Because Bradford played with Steven Jackson and didn't average 25 attempts per game.
Hold up here...I'm moving the goal posts? You created a gigantic strawman argument and I'm moving the goal posts? I talked about Keenum playing a weak OVERALL schedule. You chose to not include the stats for the overall schedule. That's what I asked you for. That's not moving the goal posts. That's asking for you to address my actual argument.
You're right about one thing, though. I said Keenum had a cupcake schedule. You never addressed that point. You removed two of the five games. Two games that came against bad teams. You also removed four of Bradford's seven games. I don't remember who they were against so I can't speak to whether they were good or bad teams. That's not addressing my argument.
So I won't have to "move the goal posts" if you won't refute strawman arguments.
I watched him plenty closely. I watch every QB on this team closely.
How will we add a QB and playmakers? Trade up for Goff/Wentz or take Lynch. Add a WR in the 2nd. Add Anquan fucking Boldin in free agency.(yes, I'm still mad that they won't make this move...for their sake, I hope it's because Boldin will only play for a contender)
No. I don't want to be like the Texans. Making the playoffs in 2016 with Keenum only to realize he's not good enough, not be in position to draft a franchise QB, and desperately throw 4 years $72 million at a mediocre QB would be an incredibly shitty position to be in. Yes, it would be good to make the playoffs. But it would be extremely crappy to see that this team has no future of being a real contender because we didn't wise up and address the QB position when we should have.
That Texans team got into the playoffs largely because of DeAndre Hopkins? It wasn't their defense which ranked 7th in Points Allowed? It was a WR who helped their offense rank 21st in Points Scored?
And last I checked, the Packers didn't go out and give a mediocre QB $18 million a year because they were so desperate to move on from Favre. Not to mention the fact that Favre had already brought the Packers a Super Bowl title and was a multiple time MVP. So no, I don't think it's remotely comparable. But Case Keenum is more than welcome to throw 10 INTs in a playoff game if he leads the Rams to a Super Bowl title, wins multiple MVPs, and makes himself a clear first ballot HOFer before that happens.
I don't care if it's possible. I care about the Rams being in the best position to win a Super Bowl. Having a journeyman QB does not accomplish that. The 2006 Colts won the Super Bowl despite being ranked 23rd in Points Allowed. I'm not going to say, "Fuck it. If the Colts can win a Super Bowl with a poorly performing defense, the Rams can. Let's dump our defense."
This is a team that can win a Super Bowl in the very near future if we get ourselves a franchise QB. The Patriots and Seahawks left a very clear blueprint for how to win Super Bowls with defenses, running games, and franchise QBs. It didn't include an overwhelming amount of talent at WR.
I disagree with the first part, and wonder how you're so sure that either Goff or Cook will do any better right away.
View: https://twitter.com/PFF_Steve/status/712822237921935360
Here's my deal...if Keenum wins the job, he wins the job. If the rookie isn't ready, he isn't ready. But I want hope. I want something to believe in. Even if it doesn't translate to a guy starting in 2016. I want a future. And I don't think Keenum provides that. If he's the best man for 2016, so be it. But the Rams need to draft to set this team up to be a dynasty. And Case Keenum isn't the guy to lead us there.
fearsomefour
Legend
I don't think too many are being unrealistic with Keenum. There just isn't an obvious upgrade out there right now. May a trade option will happen. I personally doubt that.
All of that said, a RB is going to get punished no matter who the QB is.
fearsomefour
Legend
Fair enough, hard to argue with.
The question then becomes, is there a guy in this rookie class that is going to be that guy. When you talk dynasty that is rare air. A lot of other things have to come together besides a QB.
So, is there a guy in this draft that can be a top 10 QB in the league for 10 years? I don't know.
Don't make fallacious arguments to express your exasperation. I never compared them talent-wise. You're just getting flustered.
lolkay. Now it doesn't matter if a QB comes in after camp and kind of understands the offense and kind of has some chemistry with the players he just met. Keenum absolutely was in his first year with the Rams in 2015. He was on the practice squad and he missed camp in 2014. Remember when the Texans "stole" him back? Who's being dishonest now?
Okay. I'm fine with that too. I don't know how many times I have to say it. My only debate is with your dismissive view of Keenum simply because you fell in love with a rookie QB who hasn't played a single down in the NFL yet. We're not getting Wentz, because the asking price from the Titans is reportedly "a King's Ransom", so get that out of your head right now. Goff is a project. He could be the next Matt Ryan, but how does Ryan do when the offense struggles? I'm not fond of the idea of mortgaging the immediate future for a guy who may or may not be better than Keenum. And no matter what you say, you don't know if he will be or won't be.
Yes. They largely got into the playoffs because of Hopkins. They also got into the playoffs on defense. Are you going to now minimize the effect Hopkins had on that offense? Please tell me you're not going to do that to continue to make a point about whatever it is we're arguing about now.
Jesus. I only compared two QBs having shitty games in the playoffs. Meaning IT HAPPENS. I'll be careful not to compare Gurley's fumble to Isaiah Pead's fumble (which were exactly the same), because you'll blow your top thinking I'm saying they're the same RBs.
No shit. To compare the teams they beat to illustrate who they played when they won, and the record those teams had at the end. Why are we going back to this one again? Both QBs had a soft schedule in their losses, but Bradford got destroyed by the 49ers and the Cowboys. What's so hard to understand?
Then you're SOL by being a Rams fan AND a Jaguars fan. lol. But of the two, I'd say the Rams have the best shot. Because when you get into the playoffs, your defense better be pretty badass. This Rams team beat the Seahawks and the Broncos who each happened to win the Super Bowl. So yeah. It's possible.
Maybe, but what happened to our last "Franchise QB"? Now you wanna stick another one in an offense designed to run the ball, play hard defense and field average receivers? I'm not arguing against the idea, so I'm not sure why you keep bringing up our need for a Franchise QB. I never said that we should ride with Keenum because he's the next Drew Brees. If they can get Wentz, then great. But the odds are severely stacked against that happening.
Anyway, let's do this.
Let's stop arguing about stupid bullshit and disagree about how you view Keenum.
You think he's garbage, I think the Rams can win with him. And win even more if they get him some legit targets.
fearsomefour
Legend
I didn't approve of the Bradford trade because the Rams were taking a step down in talent/ability going from Bradford to Foles. As I have said 100 times I understood the reason for the trade, but, you don't down grade the most important position in sports on purpose.
I don't think Keenum is a downgrade in ability/talent from Foles so the fact he is the "starter" for now does not bother me given the other options. The problem is the lack of options.
I don't think Keenum is a downgrade in ability/talent from Foles so the fact he is the "starter" for now does not bother me given the other options. The problem is the lack of options.
I wanted to add Vince Ferragamo, but for that damned 4th quarter... *sob* that 11 year old kid is still in there crying about that 4th quarter...just a little... stupid Steelers...
If the Rams stick with Keenum, I'll give them an equal shot. If the Rams actually make an upgrade, the Rams have a better shot.
He (Bradford) kept getting hurt which kept us from knowing if he was or wasn't a true franchise QB. Or are we talking about Bulger or Warner? I'm not sure.
Garbage is a strong word. I try not to label a player as a garbage (when I'm being rational...i.e. not on game day) unless he's actually really bad. Like Craig Dahl. Keenum just isn't up to par for me. Fine with him as a backup. Don't want him as a starter.
I had written a response to the rest of the post but I figured it was best to drop it and move on.
lockdnram21
Legend
If we trade up we will probably have to give up one of our 2nds and third, + more. So basically all we would get out of this draft is a Qb and a wr. If 1 falls to our pick yes pick 1. Or trade up to pick 9 or 10. But don't give up the farm
So we've ruled out Fitzpatrick and Daniel from the journeyman role, and Osweiler because he's overpaid.
What QB were we supposed to get that we didn't again?
Yeah, its called Fisher ball. Surely you've noticed that during his 4 seasons that once he has a lead, he sits on the ball. While Keenum was at QB, the Rams had 2nd half leads of 13, 14, 22, 13 and 3 . And thanks to Fisher's ball control, they took the ball out of the air. Not due to Keenum limitation, but by design of the offense.
Frankly, I'm really surprised at some of the angles you're taking here. I've always felt there was a consistency to your thinking. And right now many of your arguments against Keenum are counterpoint to defense you would make for others.
Why did Keenum throw less? Because they had leads, and Fisher wanted the ball in Gurley's hands. It is pretty easy to understand why
Elmgrovegnome
Legend
That's a partial reason why. But the numbers don't really back that argument as a full explanation of his low number of attempts. If we were trailing, he'd certainly have more attempts because we'd be forced to throw more. However, Keenum still only had 67 first half passing attempts to 58 second half passing attempts in 2015. That's not much of a difference.
The Rams didn't want to throw the ball with Keenum at QB. Which is definitely Fisher ball...but he was still very cautious with Keenum. He treated him a lot like he treated Kellen Clemens.