Bobby Wagner Released

[FrantikRam]

Wagner is also a good blitzer.

Morris typically had better ILB/MLB than what we do. I expect that the logic here is for Wagner to be a 3 down LB most of the time, along with Jones, if we sign him, and do some more exotic things where one of him, Jones or Floyd drop into coverage while the other two rush

 

[dang]

Breakfast is over in LA. What up?

 

[ottoman89]

Breakfast is over in LA. What up?

No kidding! Wtf! We're ready to know if he's signing or not!

 

[DLux27]

I’m all in for Wagner, watching Rams game last couple years and they give up quite a few chunk run plays per game. Wagner would definitely help in this regard, I say sign him but with the understanding Earnest Jones is the main guy inside. Wagner could really help elevate Jones game to the next level.

 

[BonifayRam]

BTW, if they add Wagner, then I don't see a pick being used at ILB at all in this draft.

And if they don't get an edge rusher in FA, then I could see this being the year they package picks and move up for a pass rusher earlier in round 3.

Package 104 and a 5th & 6th to get up into the low 70's if an edge guy falls that they really like.

I always felt that if Snead drafted another young inexperienced ILB'er it would be way late 6th or 7th rders selections. The reason was to have a ILB to replace starting WS ILB'er Travin Howard when he enters UFA'cy. I also see the same late drafting event taking place in the 2023 draft. The Rams are paying TH starting salary now.

I sure did not think that this 2020/2021 defense really needs Wagner. As bad as it was with being forced to play Reeder due to the multiple early & ongoing injuries to MLB'er Ernest Jones & to some lesser extent Travin Howard. Another element is DC Morris did & will place Taylor Rapp in one of those ILB'er posts as a starter if he has a healthy safety unit. DC Morris will play Rapp @ ILB'er again this season too.

I still remain very skeptical on this alleged Wagner signing. Wagner has bever played in a defense like the Rams field.

 

[Jorgeh0605]

Let's see.

Von signed for 20M a year with the Bills
We signed A Rob for 15.5M
We release Woods for -7M

Assuming 20M was too much for us, that means we will can likely sign Wagner and whoever else for something under 11.5M per year.

 

[dieterbrock]

I’m all in for Wagner, watching Rams game last couple years and they give up quite a few chunk run plays per game. Wagner would definitely help in this regard, I say sign him but with the understanding Earnest Jones is the main guy inside. Wagner could really help elevate Jones game to the next level.

This
Only, " with the understanding Earnest Jones will eventually become the main guy inside"

 

[PressureD41]

Wagner (2 down) Jones (3 down) Howard off bench imo

 

[Ram65]

Let's see.

Von signed for 20M a year with the Bills
We signed A Rob for 15.5M
We release Woods for -7M

Assuming 20M was too much for us, that means we will can likely sign Wagner and whoever else for something under 11.5M per year.

It doesn't exactly work like that.

Woods dead cap is being reported as the Rams paid his roster bonus so the Rams didn't save that much. Robinson like Noteboom and Stafford 1st year cap hits are much less than the yearly average.

Los Angeles Rams Salary Cap | Over the Cap

Los Angeles Rams salary cap, contracts, bonus money, dead money, and cap savings for every player

overthecap.com

 

[Allen2McVay]

Let's see.

Von signed for 20M a year with the Bills
We signed A Rob for 15.5M
We release Woods for -7M

Assuming 20M was too much for us, that means we will can likely sign Wagner and whoever else for something under 11.5M per year.

That's Not the way I look at it. Not average-per-year but the 2022 cap-hit for the team.

Robinson's contract is structured such that his 2022 cap-hit (to the Rams) is a mere $4.3M.

Woods cap-hit was going to be $15.7M but the trade resulted in $11.9M of Dead-$ that counts against the Rams' 2022 cap. So the savings on Woods is only $3.8M. Details for both contracts are on sites like Spotrac.

I just looked-up the details of Von Miller's contract; and his 2022 cap-hit (to the Bills) is only $5.15M.

These sites are sometimes wrong.

 

[Jorgeh0605]

That's Not the way I look at it. Not average-per-year but the 2022 cap-hit for the team.

Robinson's contract is structured such that his 2022 cap-hit (to the Rams) is a mere $4.3M.

Woods cap-hit was going to be $15.7M but the trade resulted in $11.9M of Dead-$ that counts against the Rams' 2022 cap. So the savings on Woods is only $3.8M. Details for both contracts are on sites like Spotrac.

I just looked-up the details of Von Miller's contract; and his 2022 cap-hit (to the Bills) is only $5.15M.

These sites are sometimes wrong.

Oh I know it doesn't work that way, but to be fair, it doesn't really work your way either. With the possibility of void years and incentives and all that jazz, looking at just 2022 cap is not painting an accurate picture for any team.

I was being a bit tongue in cheek with stupidly simplified cap math (hence the gif). With all the cap magic nowadays its simply impossible to figure out exactly what our limits are.

 

[Ram65]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anjI9k2x20U

 

[Allen2McVay]

Oh I know it doesn't work that way, but to be fair, it doesn't really work your way either. With the possibility of void years and incentives and all that jazz, looking at just 2022 cap is not painting an accurate picture for any team.

While I agree that focusing on the short-term cap-hit (2022 in this case) does not paint a complete picture for the impact of a contract, it absolutely does paint an accurate picture for 2022.

 

[Ram65]

Wagner (2 down) Jones (3 down) Howard off bench imo

I like all the guesses on how much Wagner and Jones will play. This was my thought at the beginning of Rams-Wagner speculations.

Wagner is also a good blitzer.

Morris typically had better ILB/MLB than what we do. I expect that the logic here is for Wagner to be a 3 down LB most of the time, along with Jones, if we sign him, and do some more exotic things where one of him, Jones or Floyd drop into coverage while the other two rush

Wagners has never been a sack guy. I know he can get pressure on both run and pass blitzes. He will be a big asset against the run.

The big question do you keep him in when it's second/third and long?

Do you really like Jones and Wagners as pass rushers with AD and Gaines?

I don't think I like that.

Edit: I was watching the Wagner Highlights and the thought that keeping both Wagner and Jones on the field with 4 pass rushers might work with one of them having the option to blitz even both at times.

The question remains who would be the 4th pass rusher,

Floyd/AD/Gaines/?

Can a combination of TLew-Garrett-Holland be the answer?

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

I always felt that if Snead drafted another young inexperienced ILB'er it would be way late 6th or 7th rders selections. The reason was to have a ILB to replace starting WS ILB'er Travin Howard when he enters UFA'cy. I also see the same late drafting event taking place in the 2023 draft. The Rams are paying TH starting salary now.

I sure did not think that this 2020/2021 defense really needs Wagner. As bad as it was with being forced to play Reeder due to the multiple early & ongoing injuries to MLB'er Ernest Jones & to some lesser extent Travin Howard. Another element is DC Morris did & will place Taylor Rapp in one of those ILB'er posts as a starter if he has a healthy safety unit. DC Morris will play Rapp @ ILB'er again this season too.

I still remain very skeptical on this alleged Wagner signing. Wagner has bever played in a defense like the Rams field.

If signing Wagner meant no chance at Gilmore I think I’d prefer Gilmore for scheme fit.

On the flip side I think Wagner would really improve run defense. But the Rams would have to alter their scheme a bit.

 

[WestCoastRam]

It would be interesting to see what the addition of Wagner does to the dynamics at safety. Wagner would give us one of the most talented LBs (even losing a step) we've had since we've started playing 3 safeties in the many of our defensive sets. Rapp tends to take a lot of reps at LB in 4-2-5 sets which is his best usage. He often looks lost in a 2-deep looks and I'm not sure he regains his spot there from Nick Scott (who'd easily keep the job if he was more consistent snap to snap). There's a scenario that's not likely but possible that a guy like Rapp is moved for a late 2023 pick (or a move up the board late in this years draft) this offseason with an addition like Wagner and an add at safety in the draft (and boy, I'd sure like an upgrade opposite Fuller).

Another consideration in the team build is that I doubt Wagner will play ST at this point and most mainstays at ST come from the LB core.

 

[BonifayRam]

I like all the guesses on how much Wagner and Jones will play. This was my thought at the beginning of Rams-Wagner speculations.
Wagners has never been a sack guy. I know he can get pressure on both run and pass blitzes. He will be a big asset against the run.
The big question do you keep him in when it's second/third and long?

Do you really like Jones and Wagners as pass rushers with AD and Gaines?

I don't think I like that.

I sure do not see it Ram65. If Wagner is signed it's to captain this defense on all downs. It sure appears inviting to have a Wagner here in the back 8. Wagner would provide the DL with a bonafide "safety net" behind them. Just how much does Aaron Donald believe a veteran MLB'er will help him in 2022 when the salary cap ends up depleated.

If signing Wagner meant no chance at Gilmore I think I’d prefer Gilmore for scheme fit. On the flip side I think Wagner would really improve run defense. But the Rams would have to alter their scheme a bit.

I was of the opinion that run defense was very good & would be even better. It is the pass rush where the real concerns are with the loss of our starting OLB & the loss of our top backup OLB'er? Neither of those pass rushers has been replaced. And yes we also lost our start CB once again he has not been replaced either.

Rams did loose a MLB'er too but that's because the Rams did not want him back.

 

[Ram65]

I sure do not see it Ram65. If Wagner is signed it's to captain this defense on all downs. It sure appears inviting to have a Wagner here in the back 8. Wagner would provide the DL with a bonafide "safety net" behind them. Just how much does Aaron Donald believe a veteran MLB'er will help him in 2022 when the salary camp is all used up.


I was of the opinion that run defense was very good & would be even better. It is the pass rush where the real concerns are with the loss of our starting OLB & the loss of our top backup OLB'er? Neither of those pass rushers has been replaced. And yes we also lost our start CB once again he has not been replaced either.

Rams did loose a MLB'er too but that's because the Rams did not want him back.

I edited my post with the thought of both Wagner and Jones playing all three downs.

They may end up having Wagner wear the green dot and make all the calls and stay on the field with Jones may be coming off on third downs. It's all a guessing game at this point but, if they pay Wagner they are going to play him.

 

[KA210927]

Adding a guy like Wagner has a similar effect like adding Weddle last year. His knowledge is off the charts and he will help everyone around him get a bit better. He not only elevates the LB room but the entire defense. Jones would be extremely lucky to play next to this guy for ~3 years and learn from him. He is a special talent and possibly the best NFL ILB since Ray Lewis (it’s between Wagner/Kuechly). Guys like this don’t become available often and he still is playing at a high level. I think a 3 year deal makes perfect sense for Wagner and the Rams. There are lots of articles if you look around from the last few years with Wagner saying he wants to play for a long time.

 

[dang]

Adding a guy like Wagner has a similar effect like adding Weddle last year. His knowledge is off the charts and he will help everyone around him get a bit better. He not only elevates the LB room but the entire defense. Jones would be extremely lucky to play next to this guy for ~3 years and learn from him. He is a special talent and possibly the best NFL ILB since Ray Lewis (it’s between Wagner/Kuechly). Guys like this don’t become available often and he still is playing at a high level. I think a 3 year deal makes perfect sense for Wagner and the Rams. There are lots of articles if you look around from the last few years with Wagner saying he wants to play for a long time.

Rams could use his experience and leadership with losing Miller snd Weddle. He can mentor up EZJones as well.