Another Bradford Article!

[rhinobean]

See this is what I'm talking about... Regarding the last of consistency. In two of the games the defense won 2? Which two were those and please help me understand what happened to the "team" thing?

I was thinking Indy & Chicago and in that respect, they were team victories! FWIW, they are all team W's and L's.

 

[dieterbrock]

What if I told you that over his past 16 games (the last 9 of 2012 and first 7 of 2013), Bradford was 356 of 594 for 3797 yards (60%) with 28 TDs and 11 ints? Aside from having two more ints than Wilson over 16 games, those numbers are almost identical to Wilson's last 16 regular games.

With all due respect, this is exactly what I'm talking about.
With Bradford, we have to massage the data to pump up his numbers.
His career highs for a season and career avg just don't match up.
As supporters of Sam, a Folks want to do that to show the potential? That's great.
But at the same respect, you can't minimize the numbers for someone else. It's just not apples to apples.
100 qb rating 64% comp while hitting on 8 ypa is insane. And only in year 2?
There's just no comparison
And there doesn't need to be
Like I've said all along, I'm looking forward to seeing Sam play a full season with all the toys that are available so he can show what he's made of

 

[jjab360]

With all due respect, this is exactly what I'm talking about.
With Bradford, we have to massage the data to pump up his numbers.
His career highs for a season and career avg just don't match up.
As supporters of Sam, a Folks want to do that to show the potential? That's great.
But at the same respect, you can't minimize the numbers for someone else. It's just not apples to apples.
100 qb rating 64% comp while hitting on 8 ypa is insane. And only in year 2?
There's just no comparison
And there doesn't need to be
Like I've said all along, I'm looking forward to seeing Sam play a full season with all the toys that are available so he can show what he's made of

How is comparing one player's last 16 games to another player's last 16 games "massaging the data"? That is comparing apples to apples.

 

[dieterbrock]

How is comparing one player's last 16 games to another player's last 16 games "massaging the data"? That is comparing apples to apples.

How is it not massaging the data? It's 2 different seasons. Why not just compare 2012 for both players? Then it's apples to apples.

 

[badnews]

How is it not massaging the data? It's 2 different seasons. Why not just compare 2012 for both players? Then it's apples to apples.

If we can compare two QBs on different teams, why would the season matter? Different teams, different seasons.
If we're going to compare the two, how do you propose we do it?

 

[dieterbrock]

If we can compare two QBs on different teams, why would the season matter? Different teams, different seasons.
If we're going to compare the two, how do you propose we do it?

Season vs season? Why is that a hard concept?
2012 for instance doesn't measure up because the 2nd half numbers are superior to the first half. So by using the best of 2012 with 2013 it's massaging data.
Ultimately I'm not comparing the two players. I'm comparing how Bradford's numbers are massaged to look better while other players numbers are minimized.
Wilson has had 2 incredible seasons. I hate him but credit is due.
And after 2014 I'd love nothing more than to see Wilson crap the bed while Bradford has an MVP season.
Then apples to apples will work fine for everyone

 

[jjab360]

How is it not massaging the data? It's 2 different seasons. Why not just compare 2012 for both players? Then it's apples to apples.

Why not compare 2013? It's the most recent, so it's the most relevant.

Bradford: 241 YPG, 2.0 TD PG, .57 INT PG, 60% CMP, 6.44 YPA
Wilson: 194 YPG, 1.62 TD PG, .62 INT PG, 64% CMP, 7.93 YPA

More yards, more TDs, less interceptions. Sure, Wilson had a better completion percentage and higher YPA, but I personally believe it's pretty important to score more points and turn the ball over less. But maybe that's just me.

Either way, far from the picture painted of Wilson being an elite QB and Bradford scraping the bottom of the barrel.

 

[FRO]

Team records shouldn't be attributed to the QB. That's why I hate these QB discussions. I hated it when the team record was used by some to promote Bulger over Warner. I still hate the team record. As a Bradford guy I don't trumpet the 5-2-1 stuff. It's a team sport in which the entire team wins and loses. Not one guy.

 

[-X-]

With all due respect, this is exactly what I'm talking about.
With Bradford, we have to massage the data to pump up his numbers.
His career highs for a season and career avg just don't match up.
As supporters of Sam, a Folks want to do that to show the potential? That's great.
But at the same respect, you can't minimize the numbers for someone else. It's just not apples to apples.
100 qb rating 64% comp while hitting on 8 ypa is insane. And only in year 2?
There's just no comparison
And there doesn't need to be
Like I've said all along, I'm looking forward to seeing Sam play a full season with all the toys that are available so he can show what he's made of

I wasn't massaging anything. lol. You weren't a fan of extrapolation, so I just gave you his last *real* 16 games.
I'm not debating you on Wilson's capabilities as a pro QB, so it wasn't my intent to minimize anything he's done.
I was just giving you something more meaningful (or at least I thought).

 

[ReddingRam]

here is to hoping Sam's new knee is bionic and it truly is stronger than before. i am NOT worried about his talent. He has the arm to throw ANY ball you need in the NFL. The keys will be 1) his health 2) being able to block and protect him and 3) the abilities of our WR's to get open and catch the ball. I truly believe that we will be much improved this season. The Defense is very very stout in the front 7, but we are awfully young in the back end. The competition there should be fun to watch. Definitely more talent there than even last yr though, and add GW to the mix....we should be even better. Last yr our ST's improved remarkably. We have added even more talent and options to the return game. The running game on ofense was showing promise and the addition of Mason and OL additions should continue building that strength. That means that our passing Offense doesn't have to be "GSOT" good..... it just needs to be efficient. I see enough talent to bring the explosive plays when we ned them, being set up by a very good running game.

We are really being built eerily similar to SF and Sea. if you really look at it. And they have shown the NFL that is a successful recipe. Again .... we need to stay healthy or at least minimal injuries along the OL and WR corps. and QB. IF that happens, I think we will be able to compete with ANYBODY.

 

[dieterbrock]

Either way, far from the picture painted of Wilson being an elite QB and Bradford scraping the bottom of the barrel.

Now I'm calling bs. Where have I said anything of the likes of "Bradford scraping the bottom of the barrel"??

 

[jjab360]

Now I'm calling bs. Where have I said anything of the likes of "Bradford scraping the bottom of the barrel"??

I never said you did. That's just the general message you get from pretty much everyone in the media. Didn't mean for my post to seem entirely directed at you.

Did you want to argue the rest of my post, though?

 

[Faceplant]

Yeah, the NFC West is turning this whole "passing league" thing on its ear. Honestly I think we all see flashes of what we want to see from Sam. Unfortunately, it has never been consistent enough to make a huge difference either way. Last season was misleading stat wise as far as I am concerned. That 60% and low ypc are very telling in my book. Jes sayin.

 

[Rams and Gators]

Yeah, the NFC West is turning this whole "passing league" thing on its ear. Honestly I think we all see flashes of what we want to see from Sam. Unfortunately, it has never been consistent enough to make a huge difference either way. Last season was misleading stat wise as far as I am concerned. That 60% and low ypc are very telling in my book. Jes sayin.

Telling that our WRs can't catch the ball?

 

[bluecollarram]

dieterbrock, I don't usually respond to these Bradford threads as I find them of no real use, other than entertainment. You pulled me into this one though. Russell Wilson is an above average QB nothing more, he has the benefit of an outstanding team around him( I hate typing that). IMO Wilson separates himself from the average QB's by staying in the TEAM concept better than the lower rung QB's. What I'm trying to say is he seems to "know what he doesn't know" and just runs what is called, pretty simple really. The only time I have seen Wilson make big plays is on a broken play, other than that he just executes the play called as he is supposed to do. Now you may have examples of "this great throw" or "that great throw" but that is required of any NFL QB, they ALL have those. I just don't see his greatness like some do. He is a decent runner, he is a decent passer, and that is all the TEAM needs.

 

[badnews]

Last season was misleading stat wise as far as I am concerned. That 60% and low ypc are very telling in my book. Jes sayin.

Just curious... what is the correlation between YPC and INTs?
We know turnovers can lose games. We know big plays can win games. I am guessing that the QBs who throw deep the most often also have higher INT numbers???
I am also guessing that the QBs who throw deep often ALSO have some of the better WRs in the game???
Also going to go out on a limb and say that a higher YPC will have something to do with offensive minded HCs, while an emphasis on ball control will be more popular amongst defensive minded HCs.
Am I wrong? I am asking everyone btw.

 

[RamzFanz]

That's fine but since he was a coach in the NFL I think I'm going to go with him

Fisher is a coach in the NFL, how about we go with him?

 

[Boffo97]

Team records shouldn't be attributed to the QB. That's why I hate these QB discussions. I hated it when the team record was used by some to promote Bulger over Warner. I still hate the team record. As a Bradford guy I don't trumpet the 5-2-1 stuff. It's a team sport in which the entire team wins and loses. Not one guy.

I must have missed that for Bulger over Warner, but I agree that wins are a team stat and don't really say much about one individual on that team.

Good QBs can have their team lose and bad QBs can have their team win.

 

[dieterbrock]

I never said you did. That's just the general message you get from pretty much everyone in the media. Didn't mean for my post to seem entirely directed at you.

Did you want to argue the rest of my post, though?

Not really, since you're not really taking the time to discuss my pov.
A half season of data? Yeah, comparing that to a full season data is exactly what Im talking about.
Its not apples to apples. And the more apples to oranges examples are used, it just validates my point.

And yeah, we've posted on boards for years and I've always enjoyed your pov, so I shouldnt have reacted to your comment about bottom of the barrel.

Im done with this, and will leave it with the idea that Sam will kick ass this year, and that will be all we need to discuss

 

[moklerman]

Not really, since you're not really taking the time to discuss my pov.
A half season of data? Yeah, comparing that to a full season data is exactly what Im talking about.
Its not apples to apples. And the more apples to oranges examples are used, it just validates my point.

And yeah, we've posted on boards for years and I've always enjoyed your pov, so I shouldnt have reacted to your comment about bottom of the barrel.

Im done with this, and will leave it with the idea that Sam will kick ass this year, and that will be all we need to discuss

Seems like you're setting up an impossible scenario Dieter. Can't use an impartial season, can't extrapolate the numbers, can't use the last 16 games...which seems the most relevant IMO. It's the most recent data we have on how Bradford was playing with the most current situation.

On a far less finished team, he's put up very similar numbers to Wilson's(who's number are indeed very impressive for a 2nd year guy).