Your Top 5 at #19

[dang]

I’d take a perennial All-Pro safety.

Sure. But not likely at R1.19.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Sure. But not likely at R1.19.

Kyle Hamilton was drafted in the top 20. 14 I think. The question shouldn’t be about the position. Is the kid a difference maker, is the way I look at it.

However, Greg Cossell said he may be a Big Nickrl or Star. That’s what Ramsey was. But the Rams really liked Quentin lake in that role. Would they take DeJean anyway?

If he’s a clear upgrade over Lake then I would hope so. They should evaluate these early round players based on skill and not need. Unless they just recently tied up a lot of cap in a position like guard.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

View: https://x.com/RossTuckerPod/status/1779494816050778538

I can understand the Weddle comparison. But the Rams like Lake in the Star role. To me DeJean would play safety, which is a position that they could use an upgrade at. I just have my doubts that they’d pick a safety early.

It’s harder to guess what they think now that AD is retired. The model may have changed. I’m sure they notice what the top defenses are doing. Do they want a LB tandem that can really move like the Browns? Maybe they take Edgerrin Cooper. Were they impressed with the versatility of Kyle Hamilton? Maybe they like DeJean. Or do they stick with fixing the trenches?

I’d like to know their new vision.

 

[WestCoastRam]

It's the former Ravens GM Ozzie Newsome gameplan. He said it's harder to draft at the back half of the 1st round and since you can't afford to miss on 1st rounders swing for doubles instead of home runs. Someone that's least likely to be a bust. If my top 5 guys are gone and Kobie Turner is playing 3-Tech, I hope the Rams follow that plan.

Cooper is a kid who models his game after Fred Warner who in the games I've watched is the defender that hurts the Rams more than anyone else. Not Bosa, Armstead, or whomever they put on the DLine or secondary. Hopefully he's a 2nd round option, but given the chances are the next tier of players after 19 or so is a large group (Rams really need Nix and Pennix to go early) I wouldn't complain one bit if they took him in round one.

BTW, I don't believe that the Rams need the first four picks to be on point for the team to take a step forward to being a true contender. That may prove to be a bit unrealistic in this crapshoot we call the NFL Draft. Just good health on offense. Just last year, the Lions almost made it to the Super Bowl with their defense of Aiden Hutchinson and a bunch of guys.

Yes, this is the way. And most of the guys on D available to us at 19 will most likely be "doubles" kinda guys.

 

[WestCoastRam]

Kyle Hamilton was drafted in the top 20. 14 I think. The question shouldn’t be about the position. Is the kid a difference maker, is the way I look at it.

However, Greg Cossell said he may be a Big Nickrl or Star. That’s what Ramsey was. But the Rams really liked Quentin lake in that role. Would they take DeJean anyway?

If he’s a clear upgrade over Lake then I would hope so. They should evaluate these early round players based on skill and not need. Unless they just recently tied up a lot of cap in a position like guard.

I mean, we arguably need a starter at the other safety spot opposite Curl. So Lake or DeJean?

 

[WestCoastRam]

Sure. But not likely at R1.19.

I think people might be overestimating the kind of difference maker one can find at 19.

 

[Flatlyner]

I think people might be overestimating the kind of difference maker one can find at 19.

They are likely to be a pretty big difference maker on our team, unless we do something stupid and take a QB (who sits the pine the entire season).

The upgrade from Hoecht to Latu/Verse will be pretty huge. Likewise from Kendrick to Arnold. DeJean from Yeast.. and so forth.

 

[WestCoastRam]

They are likely to be a pretty big difference maker on our team, unless we do something stupid and take a QB (who sits the pine the entire season).

The upgrade from Hoecht to Latu/Verse will be pretty huge. Likewise from Kendrick to Arnold. DeJean from Yeast.. and so forth.

okay, hear me out. I have this fever dream where we get Latu and trade up for Darius Robinson. In this scenario, Robinson is the guy who unlocks all pass rushers here, playing DE in base and DT in nickel, and occasionally OLB, etc... I think he's the kinda guy, between him and Turner, who could require the kind of attention that would allow a guy like Latu and Young to get singled up more which I think will need to happen for them to succeed.

 

[DzRams]

They are likely to be a pretty big difference maker on our team, unless we do something stupid and take a QB (who sits the pine the entire season).

The upgrade from Hoecht to Latu/Verse will be pretty huge. Likewise from Kendrick to Arnold. DeJean from Yeast.. and so forth.

I think when people are talking difference makers we are talking about an objective difference maker. I.e. an elite player that's near the top of their position across the league.

A Donald, Ramsey, Kupp, Stafford, etc. If a player is merely an upgrade over a JAG or subpar player that doesn't mean they are a foundational team building piece.

 

[dang]

I think people might be overestimating the kind of difference maker one can find at 19.

Rams found at least 5 after R1.19 last year so yeah I expect a difference maker at R1.19 this year. Or trade down and get 2.

 

[WestCoastRam]

Rams found at least 5 after R1.19 last year so yeah I expect a difference maker at R1.19 this year. Or trade down and get 2.

Maybe we have different definitions of "difference maker." 5 difference makers in last years draft?

Mind you, last years draft was very good (I think you could say there were probably 4 good to great players), possibly exceptional, but it's an outlier.

 

[OldSchool]

Maybe we have different definitions of "difference maker." 5 difference makers in last years draft?

Avilla, Young, Turner, Nacua and I'm guessing Evans? Evans is a stretch but the others I'd agree showed promise or were definitely game changers.

 

[WestCoastRam]

Avilla, Young, Turner, Nacua and I'm guessing Evans? Evans is a stretch but the others I'd agree showed promise or were defi items game changers.

That's a fair list.

 

[Flatlyner]

okay, hear me out. I have this fever dream where we get Latu and trade up for Darius Robinson. In this scenario, Robinson is the guy who unlocks all pass rushers here, playing DE in base and DT in nickel, and occasionally OLB, etc... I think he's the kinda guy, between him and Turner, who could require the kind of attention that would allow a guy like Latu and Young to get singled up more which I think will need to happen for them to succeed.

Super interesting idea and I think I love it. I'm not a Robinson guy for EDGE, but, with his hand on the ground and situationally on the EDGE when its a damn near sure run, I really like him for that. Honestly, this could vastly improve our line. Great idea!

 

[dang]

Maybe we have different definitions of "difference maker." 5 difference makers in last years draft?

Mind you, last years draft was very good (I think you could say there were probably 4 good to great players), possibly exceptional, but it's an outlier.

Let’s start with a definition of “legitimate starters who excelled at their positions”. Not Hall of Famers because they can’t be determined for 8-10 years of play.
With that said:
Avilla, Turner, BYoung, Nacua, Evans/punter. All R2-R7.

 

[Merlin]

Cooper is a kid who models his game after Fred Warner who in the games I've watched is the defender that hurts the Rams more than anyone else.

I think Warner has been the best in the biz for a few years now. At least the last couple. So if he's near that level we would feel his addition.

I just keep going back to efficiency with these top four picks. What's the most efficient way to load this roster up while improving the most areas. ILB is a little iffy in that regard unless he comes in and straight Pro Bowls for us. In which case of course it would be a fine choice and pick to take him.

So I'm trying not to get too wrapped up in positions here. And mostly failing. But not completely.

 

[Merlin]

Kyle Hamilton was drafted in the top 20. 14 I think. The question shouldn’t be about the position. Is the kid a difference maker, is the way I look at it.

However, Greg Cossell said he may be a Big Nickrl or Star. That’s what Ramsey was. But the Rams really liked Quentin lake in that role. Would they take DeJean anyway?

If he’s a clear upgrade over Lake then I would hope so. They should evaluate these early round players based on skill and not need. Unless they just recently tied up a lot of cap in a position like guard.

If I'm Snead and I like Dejean as a corner outside the hash then he's a fit and I would certainly consider him. Again I will observe that for all this knocking he gets on "stiffness," which to some extent reads like "he's white" to me, he also plays the position with intelligence and awareness and is not lacking in his ability to be in the right place at the right time. The dude can fly. Does he fit what the Rams want to do this year and beyond? I have to think so. Is he the best fit? Probably not, given that corner has been sort of pre-addressed to lessen need. I consider that a bit of a tell.

If on the other hand I am Snead and I am thinking he is a safety, then he's a second round value. Now this also has a lot of room to be wrong, admittedly, in that question of what is the value of a safety who can man up when you need him to and do a damn fine job. Or a safety who has legit corner speed and range, intelligence, and some ball awareness to him, to juice our deep middle on those Cover 3 calls. So there is room to say ok maybe some teams see him as a round one value. But generally speaking my favorite safety in this class is Nubin, because I'm not projecting quite as much as I would be with Dejean. Nubin can give you straight ILB elements from two high looks and also has ball skills. Nubin is the guy who I think helps our secondary match up better vs SF and he should be available deeper into this draft.

So obviously I really like Dejean's game. And I think his stiffness is something you wouldn't be hearing so consistently if he was a brother from Florida. Also as it pertains to Lake, the fact he filled that role demonstrates that slot is a bit easier, even still nowadays with better wideouts used in that role. In this draft there are slot options you can get well into it. The corners you take early are the guys who can lock it down outside because it is harder to get them help schematically. I think this will always remain true to some extent in this league. Or the guys who bring something truly special, like let's say exceptional length to match up with the biggest draws, types of gifts you don't see often in the position from that supply/demand perspective.

 

[WestCoastRam]

Let’s start with a definition of “legitimate starters who excelled at their positions”. Not Hall of Famers because they can’t be determined for 8-10 years of play.
With that said:
Avilla, Turner, BYoung, Nacua, Evans/punter. All R2-R7.

Yeah, than I agree with that. With Nacua being a blue chip and Avila being a + starter.

I think there's a shot of finding a Turner or Young type guy at 19, less so Avila and Nacua but not impossible.

I suspect last years draft for us could be a once in a decade draft if everyone stays healthy and Young and Turner can ascend.

 

[dang]

I think Warner has been the best in the biz for a few years now. At least the last couple. So if he's near that level we would feel his addition.

I just keep going back to efficiency with these top four picks. What's the most efficient way to load this roster up while improving the most areas. ILB is a little iffy in that regard unless he comes in and straight Pro Bowls for us. In which case of course it would be a fine choice and pick to take him.

So I'm trying not to get too wrapped up in positions here. And mostly failing. But not completely.

I’m still wondering if Cooper has the flexibility to play situational OLB/Edge. That would greatly add to his value. I feel similarly about DeJean.

 

[Merlin]

I’m still wondering if Cooper has the flexibility to play situational OLB/Edge. That would greatly add to his value. I feel similarly about DeJean.

No idea. But I think valuing Cooper as an Edge would be a failure in approach in terms of that evaluative side of things. If you love his game, his ability to cover ground and make stops underneath, that in and of itself is valuable. When it comes to ILBs they seem to sort into two groups in rounds 1-3. The first group is the guys who have that athleticism to them but also the instincts. They tend to go quite high to teams like Baltimore, Pittsburgh, etc. Then you have the second group that goes into round 3, which is the group that SF has shown a propensity to hit in (to my great annoyance).

Jones is a solid backer but he didn't go high because his game is recognition and anticipation with some good physicality mixed in. He is a bit limited and will always be. Cooper is a whole different animal to him, a far better prospect who will probably take his job if the Rams take him.

So to me this "Cooper can rush the passer too" thing is about as meaningful as "Dejean can return punts." Which is to say not very important. Because with neither of those guys would I care to see them in those roles. I'd rather have them do what they're best at.