What should Rams do to the OL?

[Merlin]

Costanzo flirting with retirement. That's a really bad indicator for a guy who will be paid big money if he elects to play in 2020. Paying anyone who is near retirement is bad business IMO, as generally you are fighting dropoff, mental buy-in, and a big contract makes them comfortable which is also not a good thing.

I would move on from Whit if I'm GM. But Costanzo would be off my FA board too, no way I'm gonna be the stooge who gives him his retirement bonus.

 

[So Ram]

Costanzo flirting with retirement. That's a really bad indicator for a guy who will be paid big money if he elects to play in 2020. Paying anyone who is near retirement is bad business IMO, as generally you are fighting dropoff, mental buy-in, and a big contract makes them comfortable which is also not a good thing.


I would move on from Whit if I'm GM. But Costanzo would be off my FA board too, no way I'm gonna be the stooge who gives him his retirement bonus.

So what are you doing at LT ?? Imo there is no way The Rams don’t sign Whitworth for the 2020 season .

2021 is a different story, but right now I think The Rams need to find another veteran & at the very least resign Blythe ??

I’m even more convinced McSnead will not draft a O”lineman. Mcvay admits the same mistake I thought he made by not resigning John Sullivan.

 

[Ram65]

Thanks for you response Boni......

Make a long term move for securing the best UFA LT Anthony Castonzo. Castonzo is only 31 yrs old. He's one of the best pass-protecting OLT's in NFL. Castonzo has the ability to play in any scheme.

Merlin state he has thoughts of retiring. The Colts have the money to resign him and getting into a bidding war for the top LT free agent is not a good idea.

So AW is no magic "cure all" for this present OL defectiveness. It's hard to field a much less effective OL in 2020 but without AW it could get worse. Tying up the figure that flv tossed out guesstimating $22 million of cap funds investment would be insane.

No one signing is going to be a "cure-all" for the Rams offensive line.

I don't know how insane resigning Whitworth for two years at $22 million is when you consider the limited options the Rams have. Certainly going into the season with the current options on the roster to play LT seems insane to me. Drafting a LT late in round two to start as a rookie seems a bit insane as well.

No one signing is going to be a "cure-all" for the Rams offensive line.

I don't know how insane resigning Whitworth for two years at $22 million is when you consider the limited options the Rams have. Certainly going into the season with the current options on the roster to play LT seems insane to me. Drafting a LT late in round two to start as a rookie seems a bit insane as well.

 

[Merlin]

So what are you doing at LT ?? Imo there is no way The Rams don’t sign Whitworth for the 2020 season .

2021 is a different story, but right now I think The Rams need to find another veteran & at the very least resign Blythe ??

I’m even more convinced McSnead will not draft a O”lineman. Mcvay admits the same mistake I thought he made by not resigning John Sullivan.

I'm sure the Rams disagree with my approach. But if I'm the GM the plan at LT would be open competition between Evans, Edwards, and Boom, along with whatever LT project they take in the draft (which is not a sure thing but likely).

I am of the mind that a dominant run game and good competition at LT with long term pieces duking it out would give us a chance to have a fine OL that actually has key pieces with club control moving forward. Vice dependence on short term pieces like Whit & Sully, neither of whom were supposed to be the answer 3 years later.

Power run game, moving the pocket, chipping on the left side to help out whoever wins. McVay has plenty of options from there to assist the winner.

 

[Dieter the Brock]

Edwards
Noteboom
Allen
Corbett
Evans

It is what it is folks

 

[Merlin]

My ideal OL for 2020...

LT: Evans (beats Edwards & Boom)
LG: Corbett (beats Brewer & midround draft pick)
C: Ruiz (Rookie... beats Allen for the job)
RG: FA (multiple good options likely to hit market)
RT: Edwards (Beats Havenstein)

That line would have good competition which is key to produce starters, good talent level, and its weakest position (LT) is a young player with upside not to mention great depth.

The other weakness would be the line calls with a rook. However Goff after last season having more line responsibility would undoubtedly help him out so I think it would work.

The run game would crush opponents and McVay would have terrifying play action off it.

 

[Merlin]

I do think IF the Rams add a FA on the offensive line there's a reasonable chance they move Havenstein. But personally I would keep him for competition not to mention the fact I believe he's got great character and will fight back to form.

Removing Whit leaves the OL with Havenstein being the top paid OL. Which is a very cheap group. So for me adding a young FA to anchor the line would be a shrewd move and would allow for excellent competition at the remainder of the spots.

Also I do hope the Rams get lucky and have a good OT with feet for the left side drop to them at 52. But if not take the best guy there. We really need to get an impact guy who slides there and help make up for our lack of round 1 pick.

 

[Memento]

My ideal O-line:

Left tackle - Andrew Whitworth (Noteboom replaces after contract is up/retirement)
Left guard - Competition between Corbett, a draft pick, and a bargain free agent signing.
Center - One of Biadasz, Muti, Ruiz, Hennessey, or Cushenberry.
Right guard - David Edwards
Right tackle - Bobby Evans

 

[BonifayRam]

Thanks for you response Boni......



Merlin state he has thoughts of retiring. The Colts have the money to resign him and getting into a bidding war for the top LT free agent is not a good idea.



No one signing is going to be a "cure-all" for the Rams offensive line.

I don't know how insane resigning Whitworth for two years at $22 million is when you consider the limited options the Rams have. Certainly going into the season with the current options on the roster to play LT seems insane to me. Drafting a LT late in round two to start as a rookie seems a bit insane as well.

Your always welcome! I sure did not want my post to be about Anthony Costanzo. I messed up bad if that's the way it was construed & received.

Since Costanzo seemed to be a trigger I'll go ahead & dive into him. I do not believe that the best UFA starting LT in the NFL who is only 31 rs old is considering retirement when he has just now reach his prime & truck loads of millions will be thrown his way. Was not Whitworth saying the same thing just before he signed with the Rams.

Yes your right Colts certainly do have $$$ that the Rams can not match in order to sign him, but does he want to continue to play in Indy? Costanzo is a pass blocking expert who does it as well as anyone else in the NFL. Who will he be doing all this protection for in 2020?

You are also right Ram65 & you will get no debate out of me ...there is no cure all one piece player for this OL but reading most all threads by our members since the end of our 2019 season would sure bring about one to think that resigning Whitworth is the cure all. Oh, by the way I do not think I suggest Costanzo as being a cure-all OL player just one OL'er to consider improving this OL from where it was last season with Andrew Whitworth.

In addition, my option #4 which suggest the Ram select a pure LT does not state that he would be starting @ LT. It's an well needed excellent insurance policy for the Rams in 2020 & beyond. My position here is whoever starts @ LT in 2020.....Bobby Evans or David Edwards or Chandler Brewer or even much later in the season Joe Noteboom that the Rams would be in a great position for the future @ LT & not where the Rams are today.

Now back to the real world...resigning Whitworth appears @ the moment to be the best road to take in 2020 @ LT with very little to help in the future from this action & very costly, but he is going to need more help than ever. That why I listed some options in my post. Whitworth is sure to need at least one unknown veteran experienced starting OL'ers to assist him in 2020.

 

[Rams43]

My ideal O-line:

Left tackle - Andrew Whitworth (Noteboom replaces after contract is up/retirement)
Left guard - Competition between Corbett, a draft pick, and a bargain free agent signing.
Center - One of Biadasz, Muti, Ruiz, Hennessey, or Cushenberry.
Right guard - David Edwards
Right tackle - Bobby Evans

I like it, Memento. Hell, I like it a LOT!

It has the following virtues:

It’s doable.
It’s affordable.
It probably yields the best possible 5 man OL for this September.

And it doesn’t require some pie-in-the-sky trade or expensive FA cap busting pipe dream type moves.

Question. Should we assume you plan for Evans and Hav to compete at RT? Or are you predicting that Hav is traded away, somehow?

 

[Memento]

I like it, Memento. Hell, I like it a LOT!

It has the following virtues:

It’s doable.
It’s affordable.
It probably yields the best possible 5 man OL for this September.

And it doesn’t require some pie-in-the-sky trade or expensive FA cap busting pipe dream type moves.

Question. Should we assume you plan for Evans and Hav to compete at RT? Or are you predicting that Hav is traded away, somehow?

I don't know what to think about Havenstein. He really struggled with speed rushers this year, and it's not like he was perfect at right tackle before he signed the big contract, now that I look back at it (the Texans game against Clowney being an example).

He's not the right tackle starter, in my eyes. He simply can't handle speed. But at guard, like - I believe - @Merlin stated? He could excel in a phonebooth.

Or he could be traded to the Jets or another team that has O-line struggles for a pick. I seriously don't know with Havenstein.

 

[BonifayRam]

I like it, Memento. Hell, I like it a LOT!It has the following virtues:
It’s doable.
It’s affordable.
It probably yields the best possible 5 man OL for this September.

You might want to consider the results of the above.....That above Ram OL makeup as described would make it the most inexperienced & youngest OL in the NFL. Are you sure that going young & inexperienced in the OL is the way to win with an immobile pocket passer @ QB?

Only one starter has a complete season of starts under his belt, & that's Whitworth. That same Whitworth will be 39 yrs old before this season concludes. If Whitworth were to go down to injury his listed back up Noteboom has only 5 finished games worth of experience as a starter.

 

[Memento]

You might want to consider the results of the above.....That above Ram OL makeup as described would make it the most inexperienced & youngest OL in the NFL. Are you sure that going young & inexperienced in the OL is the way to win with an immobile pocket passer @ QB?

Only one starter has a complete season of starts under his belt, & that's Whitworth. That same Whitworth will be 39 yrs old before this season concludes.

Whitworth has already stated that he wants to return. Hell, he could help the younger players adapt.

I get that people want a huge signing on the O-line, but I can't justify it when we need to re-sign Ramsey, Kupp and maybe JJ3 to extensions.

That's how we'll compete: from within, not with a huge free agent signing. I get that Whitworth was a huge signing when McVay started, but there's no depth in this tackle class - especially since G-Rob decided to go full Breaking Bad - and I don't trust Scherff, especially with the money he'll be commanding.

 

[BonifayRam]

Whitworth has already stated that he wants to return. Hell, he could help the younger players adapt.

I get that people want a huge signing on the O-line, but I can't justify it when we need to re-sign Ramsey, Kupp and maybe JJ3 to extensions.

That's how we'll compete: from within, not with a huge free agent signing. I get that Whitworth was a huge signing when McVay started, but there's no depth in this tackle class - especially since G-Rob decided to go full Breaking Bad - and I don't trust Scherff, especially with the money he'll be commanding.

Can you continue to justify spending all that salary cap investments in those non line positions ?

I understand your position & really like the foursome Corbett/ Edwards/ Brewer & Evans. It's my belief they are the core of a very good future starting OL. But a wining effective OL comes from the combining blend of well seasoned & fine fresh talented OL'ers that wins the majority of games to firmly place your team on the path for the playoffs.

It's my learned belief through many years as an NFL super fan that lining up 4 of your named starting OL'ers who average 6 NFL starts amongst them all is a receipt for a repeat of our bottom dwelling ineffective 2019 OL. Your top 6th OL'er (back up LT) has only finished 5 gms as a starter & he was ineffective before that knee injury.

IMO I would suggest that Snead makes it a priority to cut that number down by @ least one. Better to be a 3/2 starting blend (the 2 being well seasoned experienced starters. Then follow-up in planing for a 3/1 reserve OL blend with at least one seasoned reserve with all that fresh Ol talent .

I truly believe that Snead already has most of the "fine fresh talented OL'ers" part of that special blend presently here signed, except maybe for one pure LT ingredient. So Snead has done well in that part of the blend.

Where Snead has yet to complete his master blending elements of his OL is in the "well seasoned experienced" area his interior OL. His needed ingredient needs to be spiced with sound well seasoned center traits.

 

[Memento]

Can you continue to justify spending all that salary cap investments in those non line positions ?

I understand your position & really like the foursome Corbett/ Edwards/ Brewer & Evans. It's my belief they are the core of a very good future starting OL. But a wining effective OL comes from the combining blend of well seasoned & fine fresh talented OL'ers that wins the majority of games to firmly place your team on the path for the playoffs.

It's my learned belief through many years as an NFL superfan that lining up 4 of your named starting OL'ers who average 6 NFL starts amongst them all is a receipt for a repeat of our bottom dwelling ineffective 2019 OL. Your top 6th OL'er (back up LT) has only finished 5 gms as a starter & he was ineffective before that knee injury. IMO I would suggest that Snead makes it a priority to cut that number down by @ least one.

I truly believe that Snead already has most of the "fine fresh talented OL'ers" part of that special blend presently here signed, except maybe for one pure LT ingredient. So Snead has done well in that part of the blend.

Where Snead has yet to complete his master blending elements of his OL is in the "well seasoned experienced" area his interior OL. His needed ingredient needs to be spiced with sound well seasoned center traits.

I can. It helps if Robert Woods and Dante Fowler are traded (and I get why people don't want to do it, but it's simply a matter of what we have as trade chips). Ramsey at cornerback is a cornerstone of our defense. JJ3 is a leader and tone-setter. Kupp is our best receiver.

I understand your position as well. You probably want experience on the lines, and I get it, I really do. But the guys in free agency aren't worth it, especially not with the money they'll command. I ca understand if we sign/trade for a guy like Forrest Lamp as competition, but we don't have the cap space and overall cash to sign a Scherff or a Costanzo.

And am I the only one who sees a similar timeline to Saffold in Noteboom? Noteboom played well at left tackle when Whitworth went down in his first year. He was ineffective in his second year before he got injured. Saffold was ineffective in his second year before he got hurt.

I'm not giving up on Noteboom for those reasons. I think he can be a great left tackle. I just hesitate to put him at guard.

But I digress. You believe that we need more experience. I believe that we need cheap, affordable talent. We both want to fix the line; we just so happen to have different methods.

 

[Rams43]

You might want to consider the results of the above.....That above Ram OL makeup as described would make it the most inexperienced & youngest OL in the NFL. Are you sure that going young & inexperienced in the OL is the way to win with an immobile pocket passer @ QB?

Only one starter has a complete season of starts under his belt, & that's Whitworth. That same Whitworth will be 39 yrs old before this season concludes. If Whitworth were to go down to injury his listed back up Noteboom has only 5 finished games worth of experience as a starter.

No OL plan is without issues, Bonifay.

Either of us could point out potential flaws with any strategy.

But Memento’s plan is doable, affordable, and doesn’t require outlandish trades or cap busting FA signings. Best compromise for affordable ‘best 5’ I’ve seen posted.

Also, her plan leaves the rest of our draft for needs on D, no small thing.

I’ve been an advocate for drafting a stud C if one falls for quite some time, btw, so Memento was just reading my mind there.

 

[Deac]

No OL plan is without issues, Bonifay.

Either of us could point out potential flaws with any strategy.

But Memento’s plan is doable, affordable, and doesn’t require outlandish trades or cap busting FA signings. Best compromise for affordable ‘best 5’ I’ve seen posted.

Also, her plan leaves the rest of our draft for needs on D, no small thing.

I’ve been an advocate for drafting a stud C if one falls for quite some time, btw, so Memento was just reading my mind there.

I'm for signing Whit, draft Cushenberry at center(alaMomento) I think we keep Haven to coach up without a big trade happening. I would feel decent about that, but think we would still need a great off-season of training.

 

[A.J. Hicks]

I'd like to see some of these guys get in on the Oline masterminds.

I started following Duke Mayweather on twitter - I think he is the organizer behind them.

I have learned a ton about oline play but he has big group get togethers where tons of NFL oline man gather. Discuss technique and perfecting technique. Will focus on certain defensive players and what is effective against them - which apparently to Aaron Donald you better weigh more than 500 pounds and be as quick as a cat.